rudolphhess
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:34 am

I'm guessing it still has the limitations of noobs.
E. G keeps install files which are pretty big and also restricts some things you can modify (unlike raspbian solo) such as memory allocation?

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:22 pm

rudolphhess wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:34 am
I'm guessing it still has the limitations of noobs.
Very few, I'm trying to break as many limitations as I can.
Don't guess - you can read the full details in the readme. ;)
rudolphhess wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:34 am
E. G keeps install files which are pretty big ...
If you don't want to store the install files on the SD card, you don't have to.
Just use the pinn-lite version (which I always use and is the most popular). This only takes up about 100MB, which is pretty insignificant. Using this version you can install your OS files from an external USB stick, or download them from the internet. (This is also true of NOOBS if you use the NOOBS-LITE version). PINN will take care of downloading the OS install files to your USB stick for you.
Pinn-lite is also available as an Etcher image which is useful in avoiding FAT32 formatting problems with SD cards 64GB and larger.
rudolphhess wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:34 am
... and also restricts some things you can modify (unlike raspbian solo) such as memory allocation?
I don't understand what you mean by "memory allocation". The Raspbian image installed is identical to one installed e.g. via Etcher without PINN.
Are you talking about how much SD card space is used by Raspbian? If it is the only OS installed, it will use the whole of the remaining SD card space. When it is installed as multi-boot with other OSes on the same card, PINN allocates all remaining disk space equally between all OSes by default, like NOOBS does. However, you can modify this allocation by using Matt Huisman's web app. Select your board, SD card size, choice of OSes, adjust the space allocated to each OS, modify recovery.cmdline according to the result and install your OSes according to your requirements.
Last edited by procount on Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

junaidhameed
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:11 am

How is this higher than berryboot?
The main issue with multi boot RPi is the lack of OS choices.
For example berryboot has retropie but now not ubuntu MATE and osmc. NOOBS has osmc and raspbian however now not UMATE and retropie.
I know this has to do with support but to me it's the most important issue.

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:32 am

junaidhameed wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:11 am
How is this higher than berryboot?
It's just a different way of doing multi-boot compared to berryboot.
PINN uses standalone OS images, whereas berryboot OSes all share a common kernel and uses an overlay file system. Choose which you prefer best.
junaidhameed wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:11 am
The main issue with multi boot RPi is the lack of OS choices
Both have the capability for you to add your own OSes to them.
I try to keep a good mix of OSes available. It's just a matter of demand, priorities and available time. If there is an OS that you would like added, just let me know and I'll try my best.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

phil995511
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm

Hello, how do we add ourselves a bootable operating systems on Pinn ? Adding a function for that would be great (by manually adding an image or download URL) !!!

Add now Ubuntu 19.10 for RPi4 and on the futur Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS (seems bugged for now) from the official Ubuntu repertory it's a good idea.

https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi

The version of Ubuntu 18.04 Raspex4 include on Nipp (on testing) don't work correctly ;( Just like the included 64-bit versions of Raspbian Nspawn64 (on general) and Debian 64 (on testing).

The "piCorePlayer5.0.0" is very popular with audiophiles who want to use their RPi to stream music, adding it to Nipp would be great.

https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_news.shtml

Specify for all OS if they are 32 bit or 64 bit would be nice too.

Thank you 1000 times for your work on Nipp and best regards to you :)
RPi 4 with 4 Gb of RAM @ arm_freq=2000 / over_voltage=5 / gpu_mem=192 + FLIRC case for Raspberry Pi 4 (CPU @ 69 ° C max) + Beta frimware (pieeprom-2020-06-03.bin) for USB3 SSD booting + SSD Samsung 850 Pro 1To + Raspian OS 64 Bits Beta

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:06 pm

phil995511 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
Hello, how do we add ourselves a bootable operating systems on Pinn ? Adding a function for that would be great (by manually adding an image or download URL) !!!
https://github.com/procount/pinn/blob/m ... os-version
https://github.com/procount/pinn/wiki/H ... using-PINN
phil995511 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
The version of Ubuntu 18.04 Raspex4 include on Nipp (on testing) don't work correctly ;( Just like the included 64-bit versions of Raspbian Nspawn64 (on general) and Debian 64 (on testing).
Hmm. First problem I've heard about these. They seemed to work during my limited testing. In what way they do not work? Do they work differently when installed by PINN to a standard install (they shouldn't)?

PiCorePlayer is already included, but it does need updating.
phil995511 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
Specify for all OS if they are 32 bit or 64 bit would be nice too.
I tend to add '64' to the name if they are 64 bit. I did think of adding a 64-bit category, but I didn't think that would be a long term solution.
phil995511 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
Thank you 1000 times for your work on Nipp and best regards to you
You're very welcome.

Nipp? :lol:
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

phil995511
Posts: 42
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:20 pm

phil995511 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
The version of Ubuntu 18.04 Raspex4 include on Nipp (on testing) don't work correctly ;( Just like the included 64-bit versions of Raspbian Nspawn64 (on general) and Debian 64 (on testing).
procount wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:06 pm
Hmm. First problem I've heard about these. They seemed to work during my limited testing. In what way they do not work? Do they work differently when installed by PINN to a standard install (they shouldn't)?
On my RPi4 with 4 Gb of RAM Raspex4 boot correctly, the login is ok, but after this, it remains blocked it not display the desktop .

Nspawn64 has update issues with chromium, then when you uninstall chromium, has update issues with other system files. From what I read on the internet this problem it would be linked to 32/64 bit version conflicts.

Debian 64 (on testing) have writing problems on USB3 SSD.
phil995511 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 pm
Specify for all OS if they are 32 bit or 64 bit would be nice too.
procount wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:06 pm
I tend to add '64' to the name if they are 64 bit. I did think of adding a 64-bit category, but I didn't think that would be a long term solution.
Just add this 32/64 bits information on OS comments


Nipp / Pinn :roll: (certainly a nip / pin code confusion )
RPi 4 with 4 Gb of RAM @ arm_freq=2000 / over_voltage=5 / gpu_mem=192 + FLIRC case for Raspberry Pi 4 (CPU @ 69 ° C max) + Beta frimware (pieeprom-2020-06-03.bin) for USB3 SSD booting + SSD Samsung 850 Pro 1To + Raspian OS 64 Bits Beta

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:33 pm

Well, they are under "testing" for a reason. It sounds like those are issues with the underlying OS so they are the responsibility of the respective maintainers, or maybe they just need the latest firmware/kernel. :shrug: If newer versions are available I will try to pick them up next time I review my OS list.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

phil995511
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:40 pm

procount wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:33 pm
Well, they are under "testing" for a reason. It sounds like those are issues with the underlying OS so they are the responsibility of the respective maintainers, or maybe they just need the latest firmware/kernel. :shrug: If newer versions are available I will try to pick them up next time I review my OS list.
Yes you are absolutely right !!

Best regards.
RPi 4 with 4 Gb of RAM @ arm_freq=2000 / over_voltage=5 / gpu_mem=192 + FLIRC case for Raspberry Pi 4 (CPU @ 69 ° C max) + Beta frimware (pieeprom-2020-06-03.bin) for USB3 SSD booting + SSD Samsung 850 Pro 1To + Raspian OS 64 Bits Beta

phil995511
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:47 am

There are two other Linux 64 bits distributions that I would be happy to add to Pinn which are Open Suse and Manjaro :

http://download.opensuse.org/ports/aarc ... ed/images/

https://manjaro.org/download/arm/raspbe ... de-plasma/

Best regards
RPi 4 with 4 Gb of RAM @ arm_freq=2000 / over_voltage=5 / gpu_mem=192 + FLIRC case for Raspberry Pi 4 (CPU @ 69 ° C max) + Beta frimware (pieeprom-2020-06-03.bin) for USB3 SSD booting + SSD Samsung 850 Pro 1To + Raspian OS 64 Bits Beta

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:27 am

Manjaro is already in progress.
Lat time I looked, OpenSuse used U-boot, which is sometimes difficult to remove.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

phil995511
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:06 pm

It's great for Manjaro that you're already working on it.


For Open Suse they just released brand new disc images, Network boot from U-Boot/Grub.

https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi4

Putting it in testing would be a good choice for me.


You also have Alpine Linux which looks excellent with Mate or Xfce :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux

https://alpinelinux.org/downloads/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsFD52ba_zw


Regards.
RPi 4 with 4 Gb of RAM @ arm_freq=2000 / over_voltage=5 / gpu_mem=192 + FLIRC case for Raspberry Pi 4 (CPU @ 69 ° C max) + Beta frimware (pieeprom-2020-06-03.bin) for USB3 SSD booting + SSD Samsung 850 Pro 1To + Raspian OS 64 Bits Beta

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:02 pm

Alpine 3.8.2 is already included in PINN (by Matt)
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

trickyhero
Posts: 3
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:47 am

Just used PINN to install Lakka and Raspbian and it has been going great. I have a problem now that holding shift isn't bringing up the recovery menu like it used to. So it is stuck booting into Lakka. Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

EDIT: I tried un plugging my heatsink from the GPIO pins but it didn't change anything. I'll update this post with some logs if I can't fix it soon. Oh wow just fixed it! Unplugged my controller and that fixed it for some reason. Just updating in case it helps someone else, didn't think that a controller would stop PINN from working!

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:03 am

Try adding `disablesafemode` to recovery.cmdline if you are using attached hardware.
https://github.com/procount/pinn/blob/m ... ne-options
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

Ian-C
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 am

Hi again

I have now got a multi boot setup how i want it with 2 instances of Raspbian 1 for Steam Link and 1 for general desktop use, and also Libreelec for media. I may have added too many project spaces as i have 4 left to play with, i might need 1 or 2 for other OS'es like Retro Pi but i don't think i will need all 4. Can Project spaces be removed without wiping the entire SD card?

The other issue i have is i tried to Clone the SD card to put in another PI to update and test but each time i run Clone with the default settings and resize last partition selected I get an error "Error creating EXT4 partition" i'm trying to clone a 64Gb card to a 64Gb card.

Is there any other way to backup and or clone the entire SD card a.) so i can keep a backup and b.) so i can have a second working SD card to play with and test?

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:16 pm

Ian-C wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 am
Can Project spaces be removed without wiping the entire SD card?
NOOBS (and hence PINN) was designed to allocate all of the available SD card space proportionally to the installed OSes.
ProjectSpaces are a way to reserve some of that space so that OSes (that follow the standard boot/root partition layout) can be installed later.
After OS installation, PINN has no facilities to add/delete or resize partitions. Doing so means that OSes may need to be re-configured to find where their respective partitions are located on the SD card. It's a non-trivial operation, but could be done manually using tools such as gparted. You need to understand how to fix up the appropriate configuration files that detail the partition mappings afterwards.
It may be easier just to backup each OS to a USB stick and then re-install them to a fresh installation (see below).
Ian-C wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 am
....I get an error "Error creating EXT4 partition..."
Do you know which OS it is failing on?
It could be that PINN is not able to duplicate EXT4 partitions that include recent updates to that file system type (such as meta-checksum).
Ian-C wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 am
Is there any other way to backup and or clone the entire SD card a.) so i can keep a backup and b.) so i can have a second working SD card to play with and test?
1. You could back up the whole SD card using Win32DiskImager, but be aware that it may not be installable to a different SD card, even if it is notionally the same size, because SD cards all differ slightly in their actual capacity, but it should be restorable to the same SD card.
2. Use the SD Card Copier function from Raspbian instead (and test it works).
3. If you have a spare USB stick, format it as NTFS and create an /os/ folder on it. You can use PINN to backup each of your OSes to that. You can then re-install them to another SD card (or restore/replace them on the same SD card for recovery purposes). Installing a different number of OSes to a new SD card (i.e. omitting unwanted ProjectSpaces) will naturally cause the OS partitions to be different sizes to fill all of the available SD card space. (This may not work on some OSes if it suffers from the same problem as the Clone SD function).

Can you identify which OS is causing the Clone SD function to fail? Please try to backup that OS to a USB stick to see if that function also fails.
If that does fail, please backup using one of the other methods to be sure your data is safe. (Maybe try restoring it to your other SD card as well if you use win32diskimager. It may fail if it is slightly smaller, but if it does restore, all the better as it will give you greater confidence that your data is ok!)
Once you are happy that your OSes are safely backed up, I would like you to try a beta version of PINN that you can download from https://sourceforge.net/projects/pinn/f ... p/download. Replace the PINN files on your existing SD card with the ones from this zip WITH THE EXCEPTION OF RECOVERY.CMDLINE. Replacing this file will cause all of your existing OSes to be deleted from the SD card - you have been warned!
Please test if the Clone SD card and Backup OS functions work with this new version.

Disclaimer - The procedures outlined above may have errors or omissions, use beta software and have the potential to destroy your OSes and data! Do not attempt them unless you are happy that your data if adequately backed up first using alternative means. I will not be responsible for any loss of data. Use at your own risk!
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

phil995511
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:15 pm

procount wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:02 pm
procount wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:02 pm
Manjaro is already in progress.
Lat time I looked, OpenSuse used U-boot, which is sometimes difficult to remove.
Alpine 3.8.2 is already included in PINN (by Matt)
Yes, but the current version of this OS available on Nipp is not compatible with my RPi4.

It's been 6 months, since my purchase of my RPi4, that I have been waiting for a 64-bit functional OS that I like. I have to be patient and wait for the more recent versions provided by Noobs / Pinn and compatible with my RPi4; (

Six months is getting long ... if only this RPi4 was bootable directly on USB 3 things would be easier for me and many other users I think ...

Best regards.

https://github.com/procount/pinn/wiki/O ... ed-by-PINN
Last edited by phil995511 on Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bluenote
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:16 pm

Hey PC
So I used PINNS very successfully on my PI4 to make a couple of installs. Great! Then I noticed there was another installation available I wanted, not so great. So, I formatted and reinstalled my now 3 partitions. Great! This time I left spaces with the uhm spacer items you provide. Fast forward ... now I realize the space allocated was not quite enough for raspbian, and maybe openelec as well. I think - no problem, I'm sure I can resize because I have spare storage waiting for this moment. ... But then I noticed you said this is no easy task and takes special knowledge to point to the partitions. So, it looks like I'm reinstalling again.

Is there some other way to do what I want without being boxed into reinstalling all the time? I don't want to do this again, and it seems like an equal split isn't what I want either. But the webapp you pointed to is a dead link. Can you suggest what I should be looking into to match my needs?

Thanks

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:36 am

The webapp link is not dead.
http://pinn.mjh.nz

If you are just resizing (and not adding it deleting OSes) then you could do it with gparted.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

bluenote
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:35 am

procount wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:36 am
The webapp link is not dead.
http://pinn.mjh.nz

If you are just resizing (and not adding it deleting OSes) then you could do it with gparted.
Ohh thank you. That should do me for now between those two things.
Btw, yes the link you posted here is broken, but thanks for the new one
https://imgur.com/a/b3jC7fO

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:17 am

So it was. fixed now.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

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gide
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:00 pm

Hi All
I have just bought the PI4 and a case and during the shopping I also bought the 16GB sd pre-loaded with Noobs. Now when I read here through the forum I possibly should've got a clean card. If it is overall easier for a newbie with PINN I could format/flash PINN? Any suggestions? Thanks

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procount
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:17 pm

Hi Gide,

You chose a nice case btw, (I have 3 of them!)

Of course I am biased in my answer ;) but the choice is entirely yours.
If you are new to the Pi world, then I suggest you try all options to make your own mind up.

As you already have your preloaded NOOBS card, then I should start with that. Try installing some operating systems and see which ones you like. With NOOBS you can change your mind and install a different OS, or install multiple OSes on the same card and switch between them at boot time, all without needing a PC.

When you are familiar with NOOBS you can upgrade it to PINN. I wouldn't say it is "overall easier for a newbie", but I wouldn't say it was any more difficult either. It provides more options than NOOBS, both in terms of OSes and features. It is more of an OS administration and recovery tool, providing backup and restore capabilities and fixes some of NOOBS' annoyances (like not being able to replace a single OS without wiping out the others).

Many people on here would advocate ditching NOOBS/PINN entirely and just flashing your SD card with a single raw image using Balena Etcher or similar. There are certainly more OS choices available if you go this route, but personally I have PINN on nearly every SD card I have as it only takes up 100MB or so and gives me peace of mind that I can always access my PI/SD card and recover files etc. if something goes wrong.

There is also the Berryboot tool that provides similar multi-boot capability to NOOBS/PINN, but uses a shared kernel between the OSes and an overlay filesystem.

It really depends on how you want to use your Pi, but I hope this inspires you to try a few things out. You may find it useful to buy another SD card (or two!). Choose an 'A1' type if you can, 16-32GB is normally sufficient. Also an SDXC compatible USB SD card reader comes in handy.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

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gide
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Re: STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.

Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:55 pm

procount wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:17 pm
Hi Gide,

You chose a nice case btw, (I have 3 of them!)

Of course I am biased in my answer ;) but the choice is entirely yours.
If you are new to the Pi world, then I suggest you try all options to make your own mind up.

As you already have your preloaded NOOBS card, then I should start with that. Try installing some operating systems and see which ones you like. With NOOBS you can change your mind and install a different OS, or install multiple OSes on the same card and switch between them at boot time, all without needing a PC.

When you are familiar with NOOBS you can upgrade it to PINN. I wouldn't say it is "overall easier for a newbie", but I wouldn't say it was any more difficult either. It provides more options than NOOBS, both in terms of OSes and features. It is more of an OS administration and recovery tool, providing backup and restore capabilities and fixes some of NOOBS' annoyances (like not being able to replace a single OS without wiping out the others).

Many people on here would advocate ditching NOOBS/PINN entirely and just flashing your SD card with a single raw image using Balena Etcher or similar. There are certainly more OS choices available if you go this route, but personally I have PINN on nearly every SD card I have as it only takes up 100MB or so and gives me peace of mind that I can always access my PI/SD card and recover files etc. if something goes wrong.

There is also the Berryboot tool that provides similar multi-boot capability to NOOBS/PINN, but uses a shared kernel between the OSes and an overlay filesystem.

It really depends on how you want to use your Pi, but I hope this inspires you to try a few things out. You may find it useful to buy another SD card (or two!). Choose an 'A1' type if you can, 16-32GB is normally sufficient. Also an SDXC compatible USB SD card reader comes in handy.
Thanks @procount :D
Very informative and easy to understand!
I hope the case is easy enough to fit the board as I have read some comments of the case being tight and also someone who did some filing by the sd card slot.
As I will have a headless setup with the RBPi I possibly need to use VNC and important to me is a smooth and straight login to the OS, if that is possible? The OS is for two main uses, Logitech Media Server and Pi-Hole. Here is one solution I have found so far which might be working for the first intended use and possibly both.
Can't wait till the gadget arrives :lol:

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