zealousd
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Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:50 am

i have been reading over this forum for about a week everyday and im sure i have seen at least 100 new posts whom struggle to get an OS on and even NOOBS which i don't see how you can break that one either.

I went from Noobs to Ubuntu Mate and never had an issue that i didn't cause.

Just wondering what is everyone sticking with after their first week of screwing with the Pi, after putting Ubuntu on it.

Been running perfect.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:29 am

I don't know. Back in the day, most problems were resolved by getting a decent PSU and USB cable. The only Pi I've ever had any real difficulty getting a system on is a CM, and I've managed to overcome that. All other Pis...just write the image file to a card (correctly) and they boot right up.

Heater
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:37 am

zealousd,

What struggle?

Over the years I have installed and reinstalled Raspbian many times. It has never failed. It just works.

1) Download Raspbian image from the Downloads page.
2) Write the image to SD card. Using "dd" in my case but the disk image tools in Windows work just as well
3) Boot Pi with the card.

Job done.

Admittedly NOOBS seems to cause more trouble than it worth. Judging by the number of questions about it that come up here. So don't do that. Use Raspbian and be happy.

I gave up with Ubuntu years ago as it is just Debian but broken in interesting ways.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:55 am

One other point... There are 8+ million Pis out there with something like 300+K new ones every month. The number of people with problems getting started or upgrading a Pi actually appears to be a pretty small proportion of the those numbers. (And, of course, anyone who manages to get started without problems isn't going to be coming he to describe the problems they didn't have.)

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:59 am

It seems like those with the most problems are trying to update an old image from RPi2 and make it work on a RPi3.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Buster w/ Desktop OS.

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MarkHaysHarris777
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:37 am

zealousd wrote:i have been reading over this forum for about a week everyday and im sure i have seen at least 100 new posts whom struggle to get an OS on and even NOOBS which i don't see how you can break that one either.
:shock:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you are willing to help out, in which case welcome. Or are you trying to poke light-hearted fun at those whose calamities you find amusing... in which case, I can hardly wait to see the response you get when its YOU who finally needs someones assistance.

I don't know how old you are (obviously) but try to remember that there are a lot of kids on here (little kids) doing some amazing things with this little raspberry PI. Often 'struggle' is the very best teacher. (and these kids are learning a ton)

Some few units seem to have problems (very few) because of SD card quality issues, PSU quality cable issues, and some very rare issues with boards... but, as previously noted, with 8 million + units out there (I've been watching and participating on this forum for about a year and a half) I say that the 'issues' in comparison to the total units is about nil.

If you can help out, dive in and answer a couple questions; feel somebody's pain, or just try to be encouraging. Sometimes its even fun. :ugeek:
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MarkHaysHarris777
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:07 am

I've been thinking about this for a few minutes, and I thought I might relay a true story from my own experience. I have a collection of PIs (my own, and the ones I made for my kids who have gone off to college and took them along).

All of those Raspberry PIs (B+ 2B 3B) have just worked, no problems, no issues, just run brilliantly! --- except one (true story)... and it has a 1 in 4 chance of NOT booting. There is nothing wrong with it. It just won't boot. Solid red and green light and that's it... nadda... zip... nothing (until I pop the SD card in and out and retry)... then it boots right up and runs a long time. The last boot cycle it was up for 300+ days... I had to power it down and move it to make changes in the environment... and when I powered it back up (you guessed ) it would not boot. I powered it off, and retried. I popped the SD card in and out and retried... and after about the fifth retry it booted up and is still running flawlessly (absolutely brilliantly). What's the issue? Is it noobs? nope.

The issue is one of a couple of things: 1) poor contact on the SD card, or 2) the electronics just won't 'go' to get the first stage boot-loaded up and running... I can hear Luke Skywalker in the background yelling, "Look uncle Owen, this R2 unit has a bad motivator!" Who knows.

Now consider you're an 11 year-old kid who got that PI as their 'first' experience... and then you'll know what 'some' of the issues on the forum are about (and its darn few). It doesn't bother me... I just retry till it cooperates and viola!

PS I suspect that if the PI had a reset button that some of those issues would go away. I also suspect that the new push-pull SD slot will take care of a few issues too (as apposed to the push-push slot of previous models). The new slots are tighter, and the only spring pressure points are the actual contacts themselves... very little slop in the card, and nice pressure points. We'll see.
marcus
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Pithagoros
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:54 am

I have a friend who works in the service department of a car dealership for a large, famous car manufacturer. He tells me that I should never buy one of the cars from that maker because all he see everyday is people coming in to get problems fixed on these cars. In fact he works for a Lexus dealer. I can't make him understand that if he did the same job for a different car maker he would feel exactly the same about them.

So, we are on a Raspberry Pi official website, which is the place where you might expect someone to turn to if they hit a problem. If you see a few dozen people with problems in the context of millions sold, then the use of the word "everyone" in the subject would seem to be something of an exaggeration.

zealousd
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:55 am

haha some great response here :)

i will admit to a bit of a miss write here to where i could of put more thought into what i wanted to get across.

I am new to the Pi and was always fascinated by it then after the 3 got released the stats look good enough to really think about playing it with and there was some room to slap it around and even i will admit i had some start up issues and for a few minutes i thought i got ripped off from not able to find where the SD card went.

I am not sure the extent of what i was asking but what i do want is a better understanding of the Pi so yes i can help out here, i sometimes forget that some people may not have the years of experience with computers or touched a linux based system and then being handed a Pi and having some issues with it.

I have just seen a lot of OS installing issues and from starting with the noobs it was just slap the files and load but i did rather ubuntu so i changed across and both where mostly straight forward installs. It was more of a curiosity of why there was a lot of failed installs where everyone should have mostly the same files.

I will lay out my intention to help out the Pi community and contribute where i can while posting my designed projects that i am planning to create.

i hope i have cleared things up a little :)
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:54 am

zealousd wrote:haha some great response here :)

i will admit to a bit of a miss write here to where i could of put more thought into what i wanted to get across.

I am new to the Pi and was always fascinated by it then after the 3 got released the stats look good enough to really think about playing it with and there was some room to slap it around and even i will admit i had some start up issues and for a few minutes i thought i got ripped off from not able to find where the SD card went.

I am not sure the extent of what i was asking but what i do want is a better understanding of the Pi so yes i can help out here, i sometimes forget that some people may not have the years of experience with computers or touched a linux based system and then being handed a Pi and having some issues with it.

I have just seen a lot of OS installing issues and from starting with the noobs it was just slap the files and load but i did rather ubuntu so i changed across and both where mostly straight forward installs. It was more of a curiosity of why there was a lot of failed installs where everyone should have mostly the same files.

I will lay out my intention to help out the Pi community and contribute where i can while posting my designed projects that i am planning to create.

i hope i have cleared things up a little :)
When you have been around a bit longer you will find many of the ""supposed"" issues are because the available information is not read, many people just post on the forum as first port of call, but it does state on the RPF Web Site Help Page:

If you’ve tried all the resources here and still can’t find what you’re looking for, please ask your question in our forums, where tens of thousands of Pi experts are ready to help you.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help which many new users are oblivious to existing :D
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:08 am

I've noticed quite a number of questions from people using OS other than Raspbian. Perhaps a lot of that is down to trying something on a Pi3 that hasn't yet been updated.

I just wish that beginners always used Raspbian, that's guaranteed to be working with al models of Pi.
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mattmiller
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:25 am

I just wish that beginners always used Raspbian, that's guaranteed to be working with al models of Pi.
All it would take for that would be for the Foundationto have it put on all pre-staged SD cards and move NOOBS to a dusty shelf at back of the shop

NOOBS was an idea to make it easy to try multiple OSes - that time has passed - geeks are capable of trying multiple OSes - newbies just want to be up and running OOB
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Jednorozec
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:29 am

NOOBS seems to cause more problems than it solves so forget the dusty shelf and just bury it.
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zealousd
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:34 am

i was not overly happy with noobs so i found ubuntu and was like get that on the card quick
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MikeDunn
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:48 am

[O/T]
Pithagoros wrote:all he see everyday is people coming in to get problems fixed on these cars. In fact he works for a Lexus dealer. I can't make him understand that if he did the same job for a different car maker he would feel exactly the same about them.
Maybe ... maybe not ... depends on the faults he deals with and whether he sees trends, surely ?

In comparison to here ... pretty much every Pi owner will (at some point) come here to find out how to do something; so we see a lot of repeated questions etc - not because previous answers / solutions are bad but because people usually don't bother to search first :roll: . Whereas your friend sees a much smaller subset - only those within the geographic area he is in, and most can't / shouldn't be user-fixes. So maybe he does see that this particular brand is badly designed or made, given the smaller quantity in his area compared with the number of repairs ? You'd expect not (given who owns the brand), but ... ;)

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:58 am

zealousd wrote:i was not overly happy with noobs so i found ubuntu and was like get that on the card quick
Why ubuntu and not Raspbian. Would probably have been just as quick...

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:01 am

jamesh wrote: I just wish that beginners always used Raspbian, that's guaranteed to be working with al models of Pi.
+1 Raspbian Jessie

....though for the more adventurous ArchLinuxArm !!
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zealousd
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:05 am

DirkS wrote:
zealousd wrote:i was not overly happy with noobs so i found ubuntu and was like get that on the card quick
Why ubuntu and not Raspbian. Would probably have been just as quick...
i have always used ubuntu on PC and laptops apart from the occasional Kali linux and at the end of the day it is something i know that works, i will be looking at other OS's eventually but i just wanted something to run what i wanted and i knew how to get it working which i am sure Raspbian would of been the same really.
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Pithagoros
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:29 am

MikeDunn wrote:[O/T]
Pithagoros wrote:all he see everyday is people coming in to get problems fixed on these cars. In fact he works for a Lexus dealer. I can't make him understand that if he did the same job for a different car maker he would feel exactly the same about them.
Maybe ... maybe not ... depends on the faults he deals with and whether he sees trends, surely ?
No, he would just be swapping one set of trends for another. And it's absolutely on topic, just analagous, he is at the place where generally the faults are reported for one product. Just as we are on these forums.

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:36 am

Jednorozec wrote:NOOBS seems to cause more problems than it solves so forget the dusty shelf and just bury it.
I think you are suffering from the same sampling error. NOOBS works great for noobs. It's a simple copy operation to write the SD card and no confusing multiple partitions that Windows won't read.

However, if you want to do something more advanced, such as boot headless from the start for example, then NOOBS does get in the way. So if you're not a noob, don't use NOOBS; go straight to Raspbian. And of course if you are advanced enough to know the difference then you can choose some other distribution.

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:52 am

rurwin wrote:
Jednorozec wrote:NOOBS seems to cause more problems than it solves so forget the dusty shelf and just bury it.
I think you are suffering from the same sampling error. NOOBS works great for noobs. It's a simple copy operation to write the SD card and no confusing multiple partitions that Windows won't read.

However, if you want to do something more advanced, such as boot headless from the start for example, then NOOBS does get in the way. So if you're not a noob, don't use NOOBS; go straight to Raspbian. And of course if you are advanced enough to know the difference then you can choose some other distribution.
Installing raspbian with Win32diskmanager Isn't difficult, assuming you have a windows pc. Just download, unzip and write, works everytime for me. Just don't try reading the SD card on a windows pc, no need.

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rurwin
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:03 pm

gordon77 wrote:Installing raspbian with Win32diskmanager Isn't difficult, assuming you have a windows pc. Just download, unzip and write, works everytime for me. Just don't try reading the SD card on a windows pc, no need.
You're not a noob.

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:15 pm

rurwin wrote:
Jednorozec wrote:NOOBS seems to cause more problems than it solves so forget the dusty shelf and just bury it.
I think you are suffering from the same sampling error. NOOBS works great for noobs. It's a simple copy operation to write the SD card and no confusing multiple partitions that Windows won't read.
Absolutely agree, and I don't understand the criticism of NOOBS.

A straight Raspbian install may not be that much harder but NOOBS is easiest. I recall it can be used with a new card without even formatting or using a disk imager. It doesn't get much easier than download, unzip, copy and paste.

It seems to me most recent problems have related to unzipping the download, migrating an existing card to Pi 3 B, or a subsequent install where the SD card needs reformatting when the user only sees the MB partition rather than GB on disk.

There is some confusion over NOOBS not showing some OS's which some documentation suggests will be there but that's a documentation issue, same too when it isn't so clear that it can be as simple as download, unzip, copy and paste

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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:20 pm

hippy wrote: There is some confusion over NOOBS not showing some OS's which some documentation suggests will be there but that's a documentation issue.
Yes the Documentation or should that be what Documentation :shock:

Ànother issue is unzipping and I feel that 7ZIP should be recommended :D

I understand there is a perceived need for NOOBS but I still not convinced :?
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gordon77
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Re: Why is everyone having such an issue install OS?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:36 pm

rurwin wrote:
gordon77 wrote:Installing raspbian with Win32diskmanager Isn't difficult, assuming you have a windows pc. Just download, unzip and write, works everytime for me. Just don't try reading the SD card on a windows pc, no need.
You're not a noob.
I was to Linux before l got my raspberry pi, l'd never used Linux before. Just followed the instructions.

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