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solar3000
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So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:25 pm

Looks like there's a new raspbian.
What's new there?
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PeterO
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:30 pm

The "release notes" say :
2016-03-18:
* updated firmware and kernel (https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... 3fdcbe53dc)
* use serial0 in cmdline.txt
* wpa_supplicant.conf country default to GB (allows use of channels 12 and 13)

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:38 pm

solar3000 wrote:Looks like there's a new raspbian.
What's new there?
Amazing what when finds linked on the Raspbian Download page: http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:40 pm

There are bigger changes in the pipeline but we just needed to bump the default kernel. It supports a wider range of sd cards, which fixes some of the problems we've seen reported. When there is a big release there will also be a blog post explaining what's new.

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PeterO
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:44 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:There are bigger changes in the pipeline.
OMG !!!! Will anyone ever be able to use the PI again ????

I thought I'd get in early with the "we fear change" concern trolling !

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:48 pm

PeterO wrote:The "release notes" say :
2016-03-18:
* updated firmware and kernel (https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... 3fdcbe53dc)
* use serial0 in cmdline.txt
* wpa_supplicant.conf country default to GB (allows use of channels 12 and 13)
It would be so much better if they just added a four lines to wpa_supplicant.conf by default:

Code: Select all

network={
    key_mgmt=NONE
    priority=-999
    }
a simple change that makes it connect to any unsecured wifi,
and then we could configure wifi completely headless.
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:55 pm

mikerr wrote: It would be so much better if they just added a four lines to wpa_supplicant.conf by default:

Code: Select all

network={
    key_mgmt=NONE
    priority=-999
    }
a simple change that makes it connect to any unsecured wifi,
and then we could configure wifi completely headless.
Isn't that a bit of a security hazard?
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:56 pm

mikerr wrote:
PeterO wrote:The "release notes" say :
2016-03-18:
* updated firmware and kernel (https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... 3fdcbe53dc)
* use serial0 in cmdline.txt
* wpa_supplicant.conf country default to GB (allows use of channels 12 and 13)
It would be so much better if they just added a four lines to wpa_supplicant.conf by default:

Code: Select all

network={
    key_mgmt=NONE
    priority=-999
    }
a simple change that makes it connect to any unsecured wifi,
and then we could configure wifi completely headless.
You could request it via GitHub.....
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:09 pm

A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:19 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.
+1 on this.

I think it has been years for people asking for this, since Pi 1.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:27 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.
You can also change the /etc/network/interfaces file to have:
auto wlan0
allow-hotplug wlan0
iface wlan0 inet manual
wpa-conf /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf


So if you haven't got an HDMI TV or another ethernet capable Pi, you can edit the wpa_supplicant.conf file in a Windows machine. That way you can have a travelling config, that you could take a Pizero or an A+ to a friend's house to demo something, filling in the ssid and psk when you get there.

stderr
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:59 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.
If the system ran a script on the boot partition similar to rc.local, users could get help with their configuration and could make the change on their windows machines even if the pi didn't yet boot. And people with specific requests, such as having their wifi automatically connect to insecure networks, could just add that code to the script which would run on first boot making the changes to wpa_supplicant.conf or whatever. I'm sure there are a ton of things people would like to be true at boot but don't know how to make the change whether due to it being a Windows machine and they can't easily mount the partition or just the complexity of figuring out where and what to do.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:18 pm

stderr wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.
If the system ran a script on the boot partition similar to rc.local, users could get help with their configuration and could make the change on their windows machines even if the pi didn't yet boot. And people with specific requests, such as having their wifi automatically connect to insecure networks, could just add that code to the script which would run on first boot making the changes to wpa_supplicant.conf or whatever. I'm sure there are a ton of things people would like to be true at boot but don't know how to make the change whether due to it being a Windows machine and they can't easily mount the partition or just the complexity of figuring out where and what to do.
That it something I'd really like to see as well, but I can only suggest it.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:47 pm

+100
NickT wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.
You can also change the /etc/network/interfaces file to have:
auto wlan0
allow-hotplug wlan0
iface wlan0 inet manual
wpa-conf /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf


So if you haven't got an HDMI TV or another ethernet capable Pi, you can edit the wpa_supplicant.conf file in a Windows machine. That way you can have a travelling config, that you could take a Pizero or an A+ to a friend's house to demo something, filling in the ssid and psk when you get there.
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:02 pm

I can certainly see that being useful, but people doing it should be aware that /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf is, by default, accessible only to root. This is to ensure that your WiFi passwords remain private. Moving it to /boot means that anyone with physical access to the SD card, or login-access to the Pi can get all WiFi passwords.

Okay, many people probably don't change Pi their passwords from the default (so in effect, anyone can read the file already via sudo), and many people are don't care about their WiFi passwords (who cares if someone piggy backs my network and captures all my network traffic or gobbles all my bandwidth - don't forget though, it'll be ALL WiFi passwords that Pi is set up for), or think the risk is minimal (it'll never happen to me) - but it's something people should be aware of when making this change, it's a backward step for security - in exchange for convenience. It's always a balance, but it should probably be a conscious choice.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:12 pm

SwampieUK wrote:I can certainly see that being useful, but people doing it should be aware that /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf is, by default, accessible only to root. This is to ensure that your WiFi passwords remain private. Moving it to /boot means that anyone with physical access to the SD card, or login-access to the Pi can get all WiFi passwords
If you have physical access to the SD card and a Linux desktop then you can mount the Linux partition on the card anyway. You're likely to have root on the desktop so you can see anything on the card too. No loss there.
Yes, other users on a Pi can read /boot. Not sure if world read has been disabled on wpa_supplicant.conf. Potentially a small security hit there.
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:24 pm

Something I've been working on off and on for a while:

https://github.com/heeed/PiSpot
Installation:
Run install_pispot.sh

The pi will reboot.

What Next?
Upon boot the Pi will attempt to connect to any ssid's defined in /boot/ssid.txt. If it cannot connect it will then automatically create a hotspot.

By default the hotspot is called pispot with the psk of pispotcode

Edit /boot/ssid.txt and enter your desired AP details. Each on a seperate line with the following format: ssid,psk,comment

Edit /boot/hotspot.txt with the details of your required hotspot. Each on a seperate line with the following format: hotspot name,desired gateway,psk
I've had it working on the Pi 3 and should be doing a new commit in the near future when I have some time spare to finalise it. However feel free to have a play with it.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:39 pm

SwampieUK wrote:I can certainly see that being useful, but people doing it should be aware that /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf is, by default, accessible only to root. This is to ensure that your WiFi passwords remain private. Moving it to /boot means that anyone with physical access to the SD card, or login-access to the Pi can get all WiFi passwords.
The default location of the wpa_supplicant.conf file shouldn't change, some means from the boot partition should exist to update it. This can be a one way thing so the update occurs, the information on the boot partition is erased. But I would dispute that the file right now isn't available to read rather easily since most people use an account with sudo access and know the account's password, and, of course, if you've got physical access, you can always put the card in a machine you have complete control over and just read it there.
and many people are don't care about their WiFi passwords (who cares if someone piggy backs my network and captures all my network traffic or gobbles all my bandwidth - don't forget
If you have an ISP like Comcast, they are doing that to you anyway, given that they let any other comcast user log into your wifi router at will. And since those folks are likely at some distance, it would seem like the router would need to use full power and even drop its speed to make the connection, all of which is bad for the noise floor in your area and your bandwidth capability. That's not an argument for having a bad wifi password but it is creating a lot of the same potentially bad effect.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:21 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
stderr wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:A more likely change would be a way to configure wifi from a config file on the boot partition.
If the system ran a script on the boot partition similar to rc.local, users could get help with their configuration and could make the change on their windows machines even if the pi didn't yet boot. [...]
That it something I'd really like to see as well, but I can only suggest it.
I added the following lines to the top of rc.local. It looks for a script called todo on the FAT /boot partition, and if present runs it (and renames it to avoid re-running it on subsequent boots). Very useful for setting up headless Pis.

Code: Select all

### --- Lines added to default rc.local --- ###
exec 2> /var/log/rc.local.log  # send stderr from rc.local to a log file
exec 1>&2                      # send stdout to the same log file
set -x                         # tell sh to display commands before execution

echo "rc.local executed at $(date)"
if [ -x /boot/todo ]; then
  mv -f /boot/todo /boot/done
  /boot/done
fi
### --- End of added lines --- ###
BTW, if there's a way of doing this that more in keeping with systemd I'd love to know.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:04 pm

TimG wrote:I added the following lines to the top of rc.local. It looks for a script called todo on the FAT /boot partition, and if present runs it (and renames it to avoid re-running it on subsequent boots). Very useful for setting up headless Pis.
This is pretty similar to what I was thinking of but it does have to be on the default image because the point is that many people can't easily mount anything but the boot partition. I'm also not sure it should be in rc.local because one of the real problems is that headless systems get stuck before rc.local ever gets run.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:31 pm

The reason for not implementing a fat32 partition method or boot time script in the past has been that they want to keep as close to debian standard as possible.

For me if I have to take the card out and use another pc - then I may as well mount the filesystem and edit wpa_supplicant.conf directly.

Having an open wifi or a "standard ssid/psk pair" in the .conf file changes the distro a minimal amount.
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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:20 pm

stderr wrote:The default location of the wpa_supplicant.conf file shouldn't change, some means from the boot partition should exist to update it.
How about a symbolic link in /etc/wpa_supplicant to /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf?
Dave.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:52 pm

mikerr wrote:The reason for not implementing a fat32 partition method or boot time script in the past has been that they want to keep as close to debian standard as possible.
The irony though is that the /etc/network/interfaces change away from what Debian uses is one of the current drivers for needing some way to update a system at boot from the boot drive.
For me if I have to take the card out and use another pc - then I may as well mount the filesystem and edit wpa_supplicant.conf directly.
Of course you've got another Linux machine, the people who are having the problems are running Windows on everything but the pi.

Now *if* a carefully laid out scheme was implemented to explain how to easily get Tiny Core up on a pi, that would mean these folks would then have a Linux machine to edit sdcards on, since Tiny Core can run without its boot sdcard in the drive. The problem is getting a version of Tiny Core that people can download that includes enough stuff to not drive them crazy, e.g. the 7.0 default doesn't include ntp or anything that sets the clock but does have password time out on ssh so you can't log in even if you have the correct password. Most people will not accept stuff like that.

But if problems like that could be solved, people could be told to download the Tiny Core file, put it on even a 128meg sdcard and run dd or vi or whatever to fix their issue with Linux with access to all partitions.
Having an open wifi or a "standard ssid/psk pair" in the .conf file changes the distro a minimal amount.
In the case of something running to allow configuration at boot, nothing changes if you don't add the new config file in the boot partition. In the case of having the wifi automatically come up and connect to anything it finds that is open, that is different behaviour, I think actually very different behaviour.

I can imagine having the wifi dongle plugged in and not wanting it to connect because I'm also connected via the ethernet and then which device does the pi use? If it uses the wifi and that isn't my wifi, it's someone near by, then how do I get to it from my network? This isn't something I want to try to explain to someone else and headless it is *really* going to be confusing.

So we argue back and forth about that. But the cool thing about the boot partition configuration idea is that when you want to have automatic connections occur, you just have the person put a short file in the boot partition that does that update. If it doesn't work, you can back it out. Maybe Debian needs to add in this feature too.

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:27 pm

Setting up wifi for a headless boot has just become a lot easier for NOOBS users...

1. Copy the latest full NOOBS with Raspbian to your SD card.
2. Copy your requried wpa_supplicant.conf file to the NOOBS partition.
3. Edit /os/Raspbian/partition_setup.sh by inserting the following line somewhere between the mount and umount lines

Code: Select all

if [ -e /settings/wpa_supplicant.conf ] ; then cp /settings/wpa_supplicant.conf /tmp/2/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf ; fi
4. Boot NOOBS and install Raspbian as normal. (Use the silentinstall or vncinstall options to install headlessly as required)

Doing this means NOOBS will be able to connect to your wifi straight away (if you have a 3B or RPF wifi dongle) and after Raspbian has been installed, it will also use the same wifi settings. I haven't tried it with another wifi dongle yet. Although NOOBS won't work with it, I expect the settings will still get copied over to Raspbian.

I know this doesn't help those of you using a plain Raspbian image, but I hope some NOOBS users find this useful.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

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Re: So looks like there's a new raspbian

Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:40 pm

With the new raspberrypi-net-mods, if /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf exists, it will be moved over /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf. This is done through /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/01-wpa-config-copy. It may take a short while for the load balancers to sync this update.

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