User avatar
RaTTuS
Posts: 10381
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:12 am
Location: North West UK

Re: Pi A+ availability

Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:05 pm

mung wrote:...
I am guessing a A2 will not happen until POP memory is sorted for the 2836 SOC?
....
2836 does not use pop memeory
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10602
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi A+ availability

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:18 pm

RaTTuS wrote:
mung wrote:...
I am guessing a A2 will not happen until POP memory is sorted for the 2836 SOC?
....
2836 does not use pop memeory
From pervious posts, the Pi2B does use "PoP" memory. It just isn't actually placed on top of the SoC package. It doesn't really matter, since--if you look at the placement of the Pi2B RAM package--it is certainly possible to use a general Pi2B design without the LAN chip and the space it requires and have a single USB port for a Pi2A board the size of an A+.

Netstar
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:14 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:09 pm

plugwash wrote: CM2 is probablly higher margin than 2A so I expect we will see that first.
This road map was given in FAQ thread when 2B was released.
jamesh wrote: What about the compute module and Model A?

The CM is under development, but there is no release date as yet. Model A wil follow after the CM.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23082
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:35 am

Netstar wrote:
plugwash wrote: CM2 is probablly higher margin than 2A so I expect we will see that first.
This road map was given in FAQ thread when 2B was released.
jamesh wrote: What about the compute module and Model A?

The CM is under development, but there is no release date as yet. Model A wil follow after the CM.
I think the Foundation plans may have changed since then, but will need to wait for any announcements to be sure!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3435
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:54 am

IIRC the last information we have from Eben is that they had been hoping to release CM2 in the final quarter of last year but they thought they were unlikely to make that goal and that they would be very surprised if they didn't release a 2A sometime in 2016.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10602
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:42 am

plugwash wrote:IIRC the last information we have from Eben is that they had been hoping to release CM2 in the final quarter of last year but they thought they were unlikely to make that goal and that they would be very surprised if they didn't release a 2A sometime in 2016.
Hmmm....and there's are anniversaries coming next month, such as the one year since Pi2B launch...

And, of course, if 2835 supplies are tight due to the A+ uptake and the Pi0 using them...a Pi2A would relieve some of that pressure.

mung
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:02 am

RaTTuS wrote:
mung wrote:...
I am guessing a A2 will not happen until POP memory is sorted for the 2836 SOC?
....
2836 does not use pop memeory
I have no real knowledge about such things, but could you show some proof that the 2836 does not and cannot use pop memory?

I heard that it was designed to use pop memory but there were problems finding suitable pop packages as the 2836 has a larger form factor bga as the silicon die was designed using a larger cheaper foundry process?

I would assume mounting memory pop would also allow faster memory bus speed.

I cannot see a CM2 being possible without pop as the board would not fit a sodimm socket easily.

I wonder what the cost and utilisation of the current 2835 pop soldering machine is and how many units can be soldered per hour?, also how many parts need to be soldered to amortise costs to a reasonable level for buying a new 2836 pop soldering machine?

I heard pop processing equipment was in the region of $500,000?

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3435
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:16 am

All Pi's use "PoP style" LPDDR2 memory.

The 2836 has a bigger die than the 2835 due to the replacement of the tiny arm11 core with a much larger quad core cortex A7 complex as a result it doesn't fit in the PoP package. So they went for a traditional BGA package and put the ram on the back. AIUI careful design of the ball layout allowed them to do this while keeping the pi2 as a 6-layer board.

So unless they get a die shrink (I understand this is nontrivial) or someone designs a special package (RPF are probablly not big enough to convince anyone to do that for them) the 2836 has to remain in a traidtional BGA package.

I don't think having the memory on the back will be a problem in a sodimm socket. Many actual sodimms have memory chips on both sides.

jdb
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:02 pm

plugwash wrote:All Pi's use "PoP style" LPDDR2 memory.

The 2836 has a bigger die than the 2835 due to the replacement of the tiny arm11 core with a much larger quad core cortex A7 complex as a result it doesn't fit in the PoP package. So they went for a traditional BGA package and put the ram on the back. AIUI careful design of the ball layout allowed them to do this while keeping the pi2 as a 6-layer board.

So unless they get a die shrink (I understand this is nontrivial) or someone designs a special package (RPF are probablly not big enough to convince anyone to do that for them) the 2836 has to remain in a traidtional BGA package.

I don't think having the memory on the back will be a problem in a sodimm socket. Many actual sodimms have memory chips on both sides.
There's a minor penalty for having the SDRAM mounted ~10mm away on the underside of the PCB - you run out of overclock a bit quicker. The nice thing about PoP is the very short connections between the controller pads and the SDRAM, if you have to do a PCB sandwich arrangement then there's routing out all 32 DQ plus command/address and differential clock which means more crosstalk, capacitive loading...

Pi2 SDRAM frequencies don't overclock as well as Pi1. Not having the package on top does mean the RAM runs a lot cooler, though - which means more relaxed refresh intervals.
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10602
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:45 pm

jdb wrote: Pi2 SDRAM frequencies don't overclock as well as Pi1. Not having the package on top does mean the RAM runs a lot cooler, though - which means more relaxed refresh intervals.
I would have thought that the SoC would gain most of the advantage of running cooler by not have the heat of the RAM chip on top of it. I dare say that *both* packages get a benefit.

TheGuyUk
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:08 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:04 am

I hate mentioning the site due to folk buying up stock and reselling it over priced but Pi's A, A+, B, B+ are available on a known selling site if you are in or near UK. Do not in my mind buy from those that are profiteering buy over pricing. In fact when I was looking at Pi0 cases yesterday, with regard to my now arrived Pi0. I found just putting Raspberry Pi and searching the whole internet brought up some unexpected supply options. I did use UK, to reduce the search and a couple of different search engines.

Hope people in other countries can get some soon : )

But the UK has plenty stock of A+

https://www.pi-supply.com/about-us/?v=79cba1185463

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raspberry-Pi-Mo ... +pi+a+plus

http://www.modmypi.com/raspberry-pi/mod ... a-plus-new

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/raspberry-pi- ... wwodWqANMg

mikerr
Posts: 2770
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Pi A+ availability

Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:35 pm

It seems only maplin have any A+ remaining at the moment - found one in stockport store using the site search.
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

darkbibble
Posts: 602
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: corby, england

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:16 pm

with nowhere expecting deliverys of A+ for the next 2 months, now would be a good time to release a new version of the A+
Q; How many Windows users does it take to fix a Linux problem??
A; Whats a Linux problem

darkbibble
Posts: 602
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: corby, england

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:43 pm

according to element14/farnell they will no longer be stocking it,

so the big question is has the A+ been discontinued
Q; How many Windows users does it take to fix a Linux problem??
A; Whats a Linux problem

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23082
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:33 pm

darkbibble wrote:according to element14/farnell they will no longer be stocking it,

so the big question is has the A+ been discontinued
No, not as far as I am aware. It's simply that demand for it it relatively low, so all production is currently making Pi3 and from today, Zero's.

A+ (or perhaps A3, not sure of those plans) will get made when demand for the others dies off a bit, but at the moment both are selling as fast as they can be made.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10602
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:32 pm

jamesh wrote: A+ (or perhaps A3, not sure of those plans) will get made when demand for the others dies off a bit, but at the moment both are selling as fast as they can be made.
I wonder how many other SBC companies wish they had that problem?

All that said, shifting the A+ to 512MB when production restarts would be a good way to give a bit of a boost to A+ sales....when they're available. Not to mention a software change to make 1GHz the default clock rate now that all 2835s will support that. (I'd buy a couple, if only to have them. I have a case that's sitting around waiting for a 512MB A+ to put in it.)

aoakley
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:27 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:44 pm

At the risk of reactivating a dormant thread, the A+ is now back in stock at Pimoroni.

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/rasp ... yale-pibow

They're listing the RAM as 512MB. I could have sworn that it used to be 256MB. I wonder if this is a gift from Eben and his wonderful crew (if so; thank-you), or a misprint?

Other specs remain the same as I remember - 700MHz single-core BCM2835.

I think we've all moved on to Zeroes now, and twenty quid isn't the bargain it once was, but that audio port could still be handy, not to mention not having to do any soldering for GPIO pins. And whilst I realise you can fit full-size HATs to the Zero, having the right size does add stability and a nice aesthetic.
Andrew Oakley - Cotswold Raspberry Jam, Gloucestershire - http://www.cotswoldjam.org

aoakley
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:27 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:47 pm

Farnell and RS also have them, also stating 512MB RAM. Did I miss an announcement whilst I was on hols?
Andrew Oakley - Cotswold Raspberry Jam, Gloucestershire - http://www.cotswoldjam.org

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10602
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi A+ availability

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:33 pm

aoakley wrote:Farnell and RS also have them, also stating 512MB RAM. Did I miss an announcement whilst I was on hols?
There was an announcement that the A+ was switching to 512MB a few months ago. Launch date was 19 April. You might search back in the blog archives. *Getting* them has been a challenge, though. There is a high demand for A+ boards from some companies making commercial displays (store advertising displays and the like) by adding an A+ to an LCD panel. MCM (US "associate" of Farnell), after pushing back availability several times is now down to saying they'll have them in in 4 days. They did get some in at one point and shipped the two I ordered on launch day.

Curiously enough, the one I set up won't boot if the clock speed is set higher that 950MHz. As of last Fall it was announced that all '2835 SoCs were supposed to run at 1GHz.

So now, contrary to the hopes expressed in January, the A-series announcement people are waiting for is the Pi3A, which was oroginally slated for "this year, but after the CM3". Since the CM3 hasn't come out yet ("orders have been placed" and there is some suggestion of "for Xmas"), I don't expect to see the Pi3A until 2017, moderately likely--in my estimation--in the first quarter, which makes me think we might see it at the end of Feb. 2017. On the other hand, if there is a major uptake of the CM3, that could be pushed out even further.

Return to “General discussion”