Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:56 pm

I am in the process of building a very comprehensive sigle layer computer website.
One of the features we would like to offer is a table which has every single layer computer available, listing their features and sorting from top to bottom the in order of best to worst value price index.

Have spent the last couple of days trying to come up with an equation to use to ensure the index received is fair and correctly reflects the value of each board.

We need to include the following, but not limited to.

- CPU, speed and number of cores.
- Gpu performance
- number of usb ports
- hdmi?
- cost
- size
- power requirements

Plus anything else. But you get the idea. We would like a number after everything has been calculated so we can have the table auto sort.

Anyone who wants to have a go at making a formula for this would be greatly appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing the responses.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:19 pm

I don't think that a universal formula can be developed since "value" depends on project needs and different people will weight differ characteristics differently.

When you say "single layer computer", I presume that you mean a single layer board. After being startled that any such thing exists (at least with modern boards), I realized that that aspect alone has no value to me whatsoever, so there can be no formula, no matter how clever, that would rank such devices against each other in a meaningful way.

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karrika
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:21 am
Location: Finland

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:44 pm

Actually the hardware is less interesting than:
- Number of existing OS images (Raspbian, NOOBS, RetroPi)
- User forum
- Active user base
- Programming tools available
- Add on boards
- Price, long term availability

stderr
Posts: 2178
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:53 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:When you say "single layer computer", I presume that you mean a single layer board. After being startled that any such thing exists (at least with modern boards), I realized that that aspect alone has no value to me whatsoever,
It makes routing easier:

--Computer route this.

-- Grind, whirr, whirr, grind. That's going to be impossible.

--OK, computer, route this.

--Whirr, whirr, grind. That's going to be impossible too.

--OK, computer, route this.

--Whirr, grind. That's going to be impossible as well.

--Geez, OK, computer, how about this one?

--Grind. Not a chance either.

--I'm running low on steam, hopefully this one.

--All data in cache. Nope.

--Well, at least it doesn't take three days find out.

Heater
Posts: 17116
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:54 pm

Paul.F,

I'm pretty sure that when you say "sigle layer computer" you mean "Single Board Computer" (SBC). See how people here assume you mean single layer printed circuit board already, which is clearly impossible.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Given that is true, there are thousands of SBC's on the market. All with different features and capabilities suited to different needs.

The whole idea of "Value Price Index" is pretty silly. The value of a thing depends on my need for it. Does it fit my needs or not?

Then we come to "...an equation to use to ensure the index received is fair and correct..." which is clearly impossible. Unless you have strict requirements specified.

Now, if you want to pull together information about every possible SBC you can find and give details of it's features then that might be a useful resource. If ou are prepared to make it accurate and keep it up to date as the years go by.

Please don't try to put some dumb ass value ranking on things though.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:56 pm

Heater wrote:Paul.F,

I'm pretty sure that when you say "sigle layer computer" you mean "Single Board Computer" (SBC). See how people here assume you mean single layer printed circuit board already, which is clearly impossible.
That was certainly the way I read it, but then as a programming that had an Engineering major, I tend to be rather literal minded.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Given that is true, there are thousands of SBC's on the market. All with different features and capabilities suited to different needs.

The whole idea of "Value Price Index" is pretty silly. The value of a thing depends on my need for it. Does it fit my needs or not?

Then we come to "...an equation to use to ensure the index received is fair and correct..." which is clearly impossible. Unless you have strict requirements specified.

Now, if you want to pull together information about every possible SBC you can find and give details of it's features then that might be a useful resource. If ou are prepared to make it accurate and keep it up to date as the years go by.

Please don't try to put some dumb ass value ranking on things though.
Porbably the most useful thing to do would be to present the specifications (including price and availability) for as many SBCs as possible, and then allow the user to sort the list on various criteria and explicitly, combinations of criteria. Filters would be good, too. So if I were looking for an SBC costing less than $50 with at least 2 USB ports, plus SATA and WiFi, 64-bit, clock at least 1.2GHz, RTC, and at least 2GB RAM, it would be able to tell me "doesn't exist".

Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:30 pm

All valid points, thankyou. Also please excuse my typo in the original post regards Single Layered Computer, was meant to be Single Board Computer.

Getting away from the Value Price Index as there seems to be way too many unknowns, will go in the direction of listing as many boards as possible and allowing our members to filter their options by what their basic board requirements are, in turn listing however many boards may fit their needs.

Going to try and keep things using the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid).

No point over complicating things.

Thankyou everyone for your feedback, I have taken everything onboard.

Heater
Posts: 17116
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:42 pm

Paul.F,

Could I ask, who are you representing? What kind of membership do you have? Can we sign up?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:56 pm

Representing myself on this one, I love what people are doing with these incredible boards and want to make a common place for as many boards as possible.
Membership will be free, there will NEVER be a fee. This is something I am building for the love of it only.

The building of the site is still very early, so it will take some time before it is finished. I will have a good read of this websites rules before I post a link.

I personally have 3 x Raspberry Pi 2s, using them as media centers around the house. And I have an older Raspbery Pi and using it as a DLNA server for the car.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Value Price Index

Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:44 am

Why not just post a table on Wikipedia and let people who hear of boards you haven't listed add to it?

Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:48 am

The table is only one feature, members will be able to post using a form, where the details will automatically populate the table, and the filters for the end users hardware needs will be available.

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Jednorozec
Posts: 809
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Location: Deposit, NY

Re: Value Price Index

Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:14 am

Paul.F wrote:Membership will be free, there will NEVER be a fee.
I've heard that before and then three months later ...
The most important leg of a three legged stool is the one that's missing.
It's called thinking. Why don't you try it sometime?

stderr
Posts: 2178
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:23 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:Why not just post a table on Wikipedia and let people who hear of boards you haven't listed add to it?
While I defend the concept of Wikipedia and its usefulness, I would never tell someone to try to use it to express their idea of what should be available to all. Keep in mind that Wikipedia has been having a running battle about the idea of having a separate web page for bolt and another for screw. This is true even though they might have a separate web page for every episode of some stupid sitcom.

Or let's say you want to know about lead pipes. You'd think a topic about the dangers, the history of their use, current troubles, that would merit its own web page. But type in "lead pipe" and you get sent to a page about all types of pipe. One page for all types of pipe? Does this sound like a place to find important technical data?

This happens all the time. When you want to look up SOMO, do you get something on that, no, you are sent to a single page on HOMO and LUMO. What if you don't want to know about HOMO and LUMO? Wikipedia doesn't care.

So if he tries to build a table and puts it on Wikipedia, you can bet that someone will ask if each of the SBC boards is "notable". He'll have to defend that and there is no way that some SBC that is on kickstarter and might never be built is "notable", so it won't be included. But the point is to include everything he knows about.

No, he shouldn't put this on Wikipedia, although he should allow them to use his information if they cite it, what he should do is exactly what he's talking about, build his own web site.

Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:51 am

I've heard that before and then three months later ...
Pretty unfair assumption to make. What would I charge people for? All I will be doing is the following.
  • -SBCs that are available as a comprehensive table
  • -Projects associated with those SBCs
  • -SBC table linked to each SBC for more detail
  • -Forums to discuss
  • -Gallery for projects
Plus much more. All I am doing is bringing a single point for all things SBC. And By SBC I only plan on listing the ones sub a certain price bracket. My focus is towards hobbyists.

Anyway, this is still being built, will take a little while as the plan is quite complicated regards cross page references, while still trying to make it as simple as possible to navigate.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Value Price Index

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:16 am

Paul.F wrote:
I've heard that before and then three months later ...
Pretty unfair assumption to make. What would I charge people for? All I will be doing is the following.
  • -SBCs that are available as a comprehensive table
  • -Projects associated with those SBCs
  • -SBC table linked to each SBC for more detail
  • -Forums to discuss
  • -Gallery for projects
Plus much more. All I am doing is bringing a single point for all things SBC. And By SBC I only plan on listing the ones sub a certain price bracket. My focus is towards hobbyists.

Anyway, this is still being built, will take a little while as the plan is quite complicated regards cross page references, while still trying to make it as simple as possible to navigate.
There are any number of businesses whose business if collecting and organizing data. Speculating that you may--at some point--want to charge for access to the consolidated data is not beyond the realm of possibility. After all, you will have costs, both monetary (hosting and registration fees) and time.

Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:23 am

There are any number of businesses whose business if collecting and organizing data. Speculating that you may--at some point--want to charge for access to the consolidated data is not beyond the realm of possibility. After all, you will have costs, both monetary (hosting and registration fees) and time.
Not a business. Overheads are low, and happy to wear them. My overheads are much less than many would spend on their hobby.
Anyway, lets not assume. Way off topic now.

Navyscourge
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:50 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:18 am

What will you provide that cannot be found here: http://elinux.org/Main_Page ?
Of course, if it does not have a user based website a board probably does not have much support. These things have become so cheap that a manufacturer / retailer would find it difficult to justify support by paid people.

Paul.F
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Value Price Index

Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:18 am

Haven't seen that site before.
Hard to give a final on the website as I am still getting everything together. From initial viewing I am hoping that what I am working on is easier to navigate. Until I have finished I cannot answer your question.

New ideas are worked on as I think of them, some ideas drop off as they are not practical.

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