Pithagoros
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:39 pm

Massi wrote:
jamesh wrote:If it not cost effective to send something to somewhere (because things 'go missing'), then you don't send to that place. Economics 101. If there is a more expensive method of sending where things DONT go missing, you use that, otherwise you lose money, which is not sustainable.
Yes, than we have the fun part.

"local postal service failure"
mmm. no

then "there does seem to be a bit of a "sport" in certain parts of Europe, where people will purchase something and then claim they didn't receive in order to receive a second one or a refund"

but obviously then they "deny to have signed"

I wonder if spanish (example) guys living in UK do the same. because we ARE talking about that. or do they become better just having touched the britain soli?
because if "sport in certain parts of Europe" is not racism, what is it?

Then - really - fell free to choose your favorite customer, not a problem of mine, i only find this thing ridiculous
OK, end of conversation as this person is making offensive accusations.

Massi
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:44 pm

Pithagoros wrote: OK, end of conversation as this person is making offensive accusations.
If this is the case, i REALLY apologize.
As far as i can understand, the only "offensive accusation" is this
"there does seem to be a bit of a "sport" in certain parts of Europe, where people will purchase something and then claim they didn't receive in order to receive a second one or a refund"
if you want specific excusation for my offenses, feel free to report them and you'll have all my apologizes.

NeoCoder
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:46 pm

jamesh wrote:
NeoCoder wrote:Hello everyone,
Very excited to hear the Pi Zero is still being produced! However, I am a little disappointed to hear that with the astoundingly large demand that production is not increasing to accomidate. Perhaps some light could be shed on this?

Is it feasible to believe there will be more shipments to the U.S.?
It's being made as fast as the production line and supply chain allow. Many thousands per week.

Worth noting that lead time on the SoC is quite long (months), and they can only be made as fast as the fab can produce the chips.
liz wrote:Zero is in continuous volume production. Tens of thousands are coming off the line as I type this. We're pushing them out as fast as we can, but they're not currently being made at the same rate as the "big" Pis. ...
This quote is why I was curious about increasing production. Is it not possible to lower production of the other boards to accomidate more production of the Pi zero?

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:23 pm

NeoCoder wrote:
jamesh wrote:
NeoCoder wrote:Hello everyone,
Very excited to hear the Pi Zero is still being produced! However, I am a little disappointed to hear that with the astoundingly large demand that production is not increasing to accomidate. Perhaps some light could be shed on this?

Is it feasible to believe there will be more shipments to the U.S.?
It's being made as fast as the production line and supply chain allow. Many thousands per week.

Worth noting that lead time on the SoC is quite long (months), and they can only be made as fast as the fab can produce the chips.
liz wrote:Zero is in continuous volume production. Tens of thousands are coming off the line as I type this. We're pushing them out as fast as we can, but they're not currently being made at the same rate as the "big" Pis. ...
This quote is why I was curious about increasing production. Is it not possible to lower production of the other boards to accomodate more production of the Pi zero?
Probably. But think of it like this.

You have two products, one has a decent profit margin, the other hardly any. Both are popular, and you can sell as many of you can make of both of them.

Do you

a) Stop making the product you make money on, to make the low profit product and let you monthly income drop to Zero, whilst cheesing off the people who want the other product.
b) Stop making the low profit margin product completely, aiming for highest profits, but disappointing people who want the low margin product.
c) Find a happy medium where you can still supply both products, keep you income stream sensible, and try to keep as many people happy as possible.

The Foundation are doing C where they can, buit also note, the Foundation does not make the higher profit boards, and also have to compete with the licenced manufacturers of those for production line space. The 'big' board manufacturers, since they don;t sell the PiZero, are not going to want to slow down the line for someone to make another product that effectively competes with them.


It's a complicated dance.
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Heater
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:42 pm

Just what I was thinking. Put like that James it's amazing any Pi Zeros get made at all:

The big boys, RS and Farnel, seem to be selling Pi as fast as they can make them. They don't want to slow that down.

Presumably the Sony factory is working at full tilt to fulfill those demands. They don't want to slow that down. I imagine swapping lines from one board to another is a drag on production flow.

Presumably also the Sony factory also makes a bigger profit churning out the bigger more expensive boards.

Those Pencoed gnomes must be making the few Zeros we have during their lunch breaks in the canteen :)
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NeoCoder
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:23 pm

Thanks for the quick response!

What you are saying, simply, is that profits are less/board so they won't increase production even though they very well could. How do you know that the other boards are selling as quickly?

Suppose the profit of one PiZero is only $1, now suppose the profit of a Pi2 is $20. How fast did the PiZero's at adafruit sell out? About 8min. Let's say they had a stock of about 10,000 (I really have no idea how many they had and I doubt it was 10,000), so that is about 1,250 PiZero's sold per minuet. Now the Pi2, let's suppose adafruit sells about 50 Pi2's per minuet. What does that equate to? Well, per minuet the PiZero's made about $1250, and the Pi2's made $1000. Despite the different in profit margins, if the production can be matched, doubled, or tripled; the overall profits could potentially be greater.

Obviously this is a hypothetical example and there are more factors involved such as limits in production rate (perhaps time and cost / board shipped is a limiting factor) the point is, unless a profit is $0, there are other factors that can compensate for lesser profits/individual board. As you said, it is a dance, it is a balancing act. I trust that this Foundation will be around for a long time to come; I am not a business man and I appreciate and trust those businessmen/women whom are driving this Foundation. Thank you!

My dreams of working with this wonderful device will come true soon enough, I guess i'm just digging for information because I've learned and coded so much I'm just itching to apply it to a PiZero. Here in Michigan, surprisingly there are many individuals who have no access to the internet. My goal is to change that. The PiZero (1,000's of them) could easily change that. Is it feasible to believe that it would ever be possible to purchase purchase 1000's?

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:39 pm

NeoCoder wrote:Thanks for the quick response!

What you are saying, simply, is that profits are less/board so they won't increase production even though they very well could. How do you know that the other boards are selling as quickly?

Suppose the profit of one PiZero is only $1, now suppose the profit of a Pi2 is $20. How fast did the PiZero's at adafruit sell out? About 8min. Let's say they had a stock of about 10,000 (I really have no idea how many they had and I doubt it was 10,000), so that is about 1,250 PiZero's sold per minuet. Now the Pi2, let's suppose adafruit sells about 50 Pi2's per minuet. What does that equate to? Well, per minuet the PiZero's made about $1250, and the Pi2's made $1000. Despite the different in profit margins, if the production can be matched, doubled, or tripled; the overall profits could potentially be greater.

Obviously this is a hypothetical example and there are more factors involved such as limits in production rate (perhaps time and cost / board shipped is a limiting factor) the point is, unless a profit is $0, there are other factors that can compensate for lesser profits/individual board. As you said, it is a dance, it is a balancing act. I trust that this Foundation will be around for a long time to come; I am not a business man and I appreciate and trust those businessmen/women whom are driving this Foundation. Thank you!

My dreams of working with this wonderful device will come true soon enough, I guess i'm just digging for information because I've learned and coded so much I'm just itching to apply it to a PiZero. Here in Michigan, surprisingly there are many individuals who have no access to the internet. My goal is to change that. The PiZero (1,000's of them) could easily change that. Is it feasible to believe that it would ever be possible to purchase purchase 1000's?
My (educated) guess is that they cannot increase production any more than they have done. Zero sales are unexpectedly high, the SoC is not used on the latest high end boards, so there are less chips around, so unexpected demand would need an new order from the fab, which takes at least a couple of months to get through, probably more unless you pay more, and given the price point, the Foundation really doesn't want to pay more! As for profit margins, I cannot see the profit per Zero being anywhere near $1, but that is a less educated guess. 20% profit on something that costs $5, especially given it's complexity seems very unlikely.

EDIT to add: I believe the rest of the range are still selling extremely quickly.
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:12 pm

Note also the Foundation are not the customer for production of non-Zero Pis. RS and Farnell order them under license. So there is probably no way the Foundation can hold up their production in order to increase Pi0 production for themselves -- even if they could, I can't imagine RPF wanting to handle the fallout. Sony will have to juggle orders if and when their capacity is exceeded, and there may be competition between 0 and 1 flavours for SOCs. But that is standard commercial prioritisation.
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:11 pm

NeoCoder wrote: What you are saying, simply, is that profits are less/board so they won't increase production even though they very well could. How do you know that the other boards are selling as quickly?
The mere fact that RS and Farnell are maintaining volume orders with Pencoed would support the contention that the other versions of Pi are being sold at some approximation of the production rate. The recent discussion about why there is an extreme shortage of Model A+ Pis is also an indicator. So, on the whole, I think it is safe to accept that the Pis other than the Pi0 are selling fairly briskly. (The amazing part of that is that no other SBC maker has found a successful way to take advantage of the continuous tight supplies of various Pis.)

I'm going to elide your argument about margin vs. volume because your example has at least one glaring flaw (though the *concept* is sound) and it is just a "make it up on volume" argument, which is not always a successful gambit.
My dreams of working with this wonderful device will come true soon enough, I guess i'm just digging for information because I've learned and coded so much I'm just itching to apply it to a PiZero. Here in Michigan, surprisingly there are many individuals who have no access to the internet. My goal is to change that. The PiZero (1,000's of them) could easily change that. Is it feasible to believe that it would ever be possible to purchase purchase 1000's?
Two points here... The first is that a Model B+ would be a better choice. The RAM and SoC are the same as the Pi0, but for your extra $20 you get 4 built in USB ports and a wired Ethernet port, plus the USB and HDMI ports are "full sized", making cables easier to find. The second is that no Pi is going to generate internet access if there isn't some infrastructure to connect to. Thus, I think you're "putting the cart before the horse". Figure out the infrastructure so that there is a connection available, and only *then* figure out what to connect to it to provide internet access. (And after all that...worry about whether or not the access really amounts to a broadband connection.)

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:02 pm

The foundation needs to update the Zero product webpage to let people know about the expected availability. It has been 2 months since release and it can only be purchased on Ebay for $35.
Availability is presently the number one most important detail about the Zero, why is it missing from your webpage?
Anyone care to disagree that availability is not the number one most important detail about the Zero?

NeoCoder
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:32 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
NeoCoder wrote: What you are saying, simply, is that profits are less/board so they won't increase production even though they very well could. How do you know that the other boards are selling as quickly?
The mere fact that RS and Farnell are maintaining volume orders with Pencoed would support the contention that the other versions of Pi are being sold at some approximation of the production rate. The recent discussion about why there is an extreme shortage of Model A+ Pis is also an indicator. So, on the whole, I think it is safe to accept that the Pis other than the Pi0 are selling fairly briskly. (The amazing part of that is that no other SBC maker has found a successful way to take advantage of the continuous tight supplies of various Pis.)

I'm going to elide your argument about margin vs. volume because your example has at least one glaring flaw (though the *concept* is sound) and it is just a "make it up on volume" argument, which is not always a successful gambit.
My dreams of working with this wonderful device will come true soon enough, I guess i'm just digging for information because I've learned and coded so much I'm just itching to apply it to a PiZero. Here in Michigan, surprisingly there are many individuals who have no access to the internet. My goal is to change that. The PiZero (1,000's of them) could easily change that. Is it feasible to believe that it would ever be possible to purchase purchase 1000's?
Two points here... The first is that a Model B+ would be a better choice. The RAM and SoC are the same as the Pi0, but for your extra $20 you get 4 built in USB ports and a wired Ethernet port, plus the USB and HDMI ports are "full sized", making cables easier to find. The second is that no Pi is going to generate internet access if there isn't some infrastructure to connect to. Thus, I think you're "putting the cart before the horse". Figure out the infrastructure so that there is a connection available, and only *then* figure out what to connect to it to provide internet access. (And after all that...worry about whether or not the access really amounts to a broadband connection.)
Thank you for your reply!

Interesting points here. A "make it up with volume" approach was exactly what I was attempting to portray. The point I was trying to make is the fact that you cannot base your production decisons purely on "profit margins" per board. An example of volume seemed to fit well, and obviously I do not have enough data to present a true to life example, or even hypothesize an appropriate adjustment to current production methods.

At first glance a $5 board sounds enticing, and you may be correct in assuming that my design would be better suited with a B+ I will have to explore that option further; currently though, with my current wireless, recharable, "plug and play" build design, my pricing comes to about $40 per device. This will contain a powered usb hub with 4 slots, one is taken up by the wireless dongle, one by the mouse and keyboard and two are left for a printer and possibly usb drive if it is prefered. A 2A power supply is also included. From what I can find that seems like a fairly reasonable expense for a child in Detroit who would actually like to attempt to complete their homework, or read a book online (Of course I mean exoenses for the fundraiser, not the child). Hot spots are easy to come by in a highly populated areas, the infrastructure is availible already, the real issue is Noone can afford a means to connect.

To conclude: Firstly, my example was purely hypothetical and described that it is possible that profit margin is not the pure contributing factor for less production of PiZero's; Secondly, the B+ could be cheaper overall however from my initial assessments project that it is a poor choice for my project; Thirdly, with out knowing the demographics and current infrastructure of the areas where I plan to give these devices away, the parts/quantities of parts I have available to me at this time (such as 4 way powered usb splitters) or even knowing what my build design is, your points feel very prematurely conclusive.

Thank you and apologies for such a long winded reply.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:33 pm

This is getting carried away.

Does anyone have any clues or hints about any shipments becoming available in the US?

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:29 am

I suspect the margin on P0 is so low,you could never make it up with more volume. As said above, the other models already sell as fast as they are made. Lets say the margin on the P0 is a tenth of the other models, which may in fact be optimistic. You have to sell 10 times as many zero's as other models. Not going to happen, despite the predictions made by people here, since it's simply doesnt cover as many use cases as the other models.

As for updating the webpage with availability data, the Foundation has never done that, and I suspect it's not that predictable anyway. People will just need to learn patience!
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:03 am

NeoCoder wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:
NeoCoder wrote: What you are saying, simply, is that profits are less/board so they won't increase production even though they very well could. How do you know that the other boards are selling as quickly?
The mere fact that RS and Farnell are maintaining volume orders with Pencoed would support the contention that the other versions of Pi are being sold at some approximation of the production rate. The recent discussion about why there is an extreme shortage of Model A+ Pis is also an indicator. So, on the whole, I think it is safe to accept that the Pis other than the Pi0 are selling fairly briskly. (The amazing part of that is that no other SBC maker has found a successful way to take advantage of the continuous tight supplies of various Pis.)

I'm going to elide your argument about margin vs. volume because your example has at least one glaring flaw (though the *concept* is sound) and it is just a "make it up on volume" argument, which is not always a successful gambit.
My dreams of working with this wonderful device will come true soon enough, I guess i'm just digging for information because I've learned and coded so much I'm just itching to apply it to a PiZero. Here in Michigan, surprisingly there are many individuals who have no access to the internet. My goal is to change that. The PiZero (1,000's of them) could easily change that. Is it feasible to believe that it would ever be possible to purchase purchase 1000's?
Two points here... The first is that a Model B+ would be a better choice. The RAM and SoC are the same as the Pi0, but for your extra $20 you get 4 built in USB ports and a wired Ethernet port, plus the USB and HDMI ports are "full sized", making cables easier to find. The second is that no Pi is going to generate internet access if there isn't some infrastructure to connect to. Thus, I think you're "putting the cart before the horse". Figure out the infrastructure so that there is a connection available, and only *then* figure out what to connect to it to provide internet access. (And after all that...worry about whether or not the access really amounts to a broadband connection.)
Thank you for your reply!

Interesting points here. A "make it up with volume" approach was exactly what I was attempting to portray. The point I was trying to make is the fact that you cannot base your production decisons purely on "profit margins" per board. An example of volume seemed to fit well, and obviously I do not have enough data to present a true to life example, or even hypothesize an appropriate adjustment to current production methods.

At first glance a $5 board sounds enticing, and you may be correct in assuming that my design would be better suited with a B+ I will have to explore that option further; currently though, with my current wireless, recharable, "plug and play" build design, my pricing comes to about $40 per device. This will contain a powered usb hub with 4 slots, one is taken up by the wireless dongle, one by the mouse and keyboard and two are left for a printer and possibly usb drive if it is prefered. A 2A power supply is also included. From what I can find that seems like a fairly reasonable expense for a child in Detroit who would actually like to attempt to complete their homework, or read a book online (Of course I mean exoenses for the fundraiser, not the child). Hot spots are easy to come by in a highly populated areas, the infrastructure is availible already, the real issue is Noone can afford a means to connect.
By using a B+ instead of a Pi0, you don't need the hub. The B+ has 4 USB2 ports, and--if a connection is available--an Ethernet jack. Plus you get some limited over-voltage protection that the Pi0 lacks. The already installed GPIO header probably doesn't even matter, though the CSI and DSI connectors might.

In the end, you big expense is going to be a display. Unless the hypothetical child in Detroit has a TV that is mostly unused, you're going to need a dedicated display. While I am able to scrounge enough monitors for my own needs (I have about 10 19" displays), that isn't going to work if you are deploying many Pis rapidly unless you can get either a hefty grant (many times what you need for the Pis) or a donation from someone with a *lot* of displays they're willing to give.

So, if it were me, I wouldn't much worry about which model of Pi so much as I'd worry about where I'm going to get the monitors.
To conclude: Firstly, my example was purely hypothetical and described that it is possible that profit margin is not the pure contributing factor for less production of PiZero's; Secondly, the B+ could be cheaper overall however from my initial assessments project that it is a poor choice for my project; Thirdly, with out knowing the demographics and current infrastructure of the areas where I plan to give these devices away, the parts/quantities of parts I have available to me at this time (such as 4 way powered usb splitters) or even knowing what my build design is, your points feel very prematurely conclusive.
One thing you might consider...if you can get either a wired connection or be in range of a WiFi hotspot, setting up a router with the wired connection or with a WiFi adapter on the WAN side would allow you to connect a significant number of Pis in one area. That way, each Pi needs a (cheap) CAT-5 cable instead of the--probably more expensive--WIFi dongle.
Thank you and apologies for such a long winded reply.
Not a problem. (For me, at least.) I like a good conversation where there is room to explore possibilities.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:16 am

jamesh wrote:I suspect the margin on P0 is so low,you could never make it up with more volume. As said above, the other models already sell as fast as they are made. Lets say the margin on the P0 is a tenth of the other models, which may in fact be optimistic. You have to sell 10 times as many zero's as other models. Not going to happen, despite the predictions made by people here, since it's simply doesnt cover as many use cases as the other models.

As for updating the webpage with availability data, the Foundation has never done that, and I suspect it's not that predictable anyway. People will just need to learn patience!
Well...in theory one could use volume (assuming a large enough market) to offset lower margin. It might even work, at least for a while, with the Pi0. However, I agree that the production capacity probably isn't there to make it work. The real problem, then, is: Would it be economically feasible for Sony to expand their production capacity and absorb the cost of equipment and people because the costs would be amortized over enough Pis (of whatever kind) to work out? Or--alternatively--if there are other productions lines in the facility that could be turned over to Pi production?

As I see it, part of the problem is that no one knows what the "steady state" consumption of *any* Pi model is because there has never been a steady state condition with Pis. So far as I know, the growth in Pi sales hasn't leveled off, so no one knows what the sales have the potential to be. That's kind of the stuff behind my quip about Pencoed factory putting a sign out front saying "Home of the Raspberry Pi." Ultimately, Pi production could take over the entire facility if Sony is willing to let that happen. (Can't you just see people taking "selfies" in front of such a sign?)

I agree about the use case argument. the Pi0 is not a beginners board. I'm sure some uses will emerge for which the Pi0 is the "perfect" choice. I have a couple of uses in mind, but they could just as easily be implemented using A+ Pis. The one use I have for which there is no substitute is completely trivial...it's setting a Pi0 at a Jam so that one can say, "There is an operating Pi0."

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:18 am

NeoCoder wrote:This is getting carried away.

Does anyone have any clues or hints about any shipments becoming available in the US?
Put yourself on the notification list at Adafruit. That's how I got a Pi0. For significant numbers of Pi0s (i.e. more than one every couple of months), you just have to be patient. My best guess is another 4 to 6 months, but I may be overly pessimistic.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:21 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
NeoCoder wrote:This is getting carried away.

Does anyone have any clues or hints about any shipments becoming available in the US?
Put yourself on the notification list at Adafruit. That's how I got a Pi0. For significant numbers of Pi0s (i.e. more than one every couple of months), you just have to be patient. My best guess is another 4 to 6 months, but I may be overly pessimistic.
Done. Thank you.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:40 pm

phoenix_az wrote:The foundation needs to update the Zero product webpage to let people know about the expected availability. It has been 2 months since release and it can only be purchased on Ebay for $35.
Availability is presently the number one most important detail about the Zero, why is it missing from your webpage?
Anyone care to disagree that availability is not the number one most important detail about the Zero?
Ebay? Depends. Just bought my third Zero as package with a Scroll Pihat Pimeroni.
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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:39 pm

Hello I am new to this forum and Raspberry Pi's in general.


As to the conversatition here about Pi Zero production rates I suggest letting those who are doing it handle it. The posited suggested model of ramping up production is flawed, to simplistic and not like for like comparison. It has no tooling, storage, or financing costs factored in to start with.

The Raspberry Pi Zero is a prototyping or one off product board by design. Anyone wanting a minimal computer to access the internet could easily purchase a Android TV box or dongle, use a library computer (while waiting if in the UK).


The Pi's will be ready when they are baked no matter how much you stare at the oven door! So relax a little folks (correted)
:-)
Last edited by TheGuyUk on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:08 pm

TheGuyUk wrote:The Pi's will be ready when they are baked no matter how much you stare at the oven door! So relax a little fokes :-)
Why?
It's far more fun telling everyone how they should run the world.

Haven't you ever passed a sign saying "Road ahead closed. No entry except for residents" and wanted to go up that road, just to see what they're doing?
Isn't the purpose of the letters column in the paper to let the ordinary guy tell his politicians what they're doing wrong?
And do any politicians take any notice of what we punters suggest?

Oh yes, and while we're on the subject of telling everyone else where they're going wrong, fokes is spelt rong.
There, that's tellin' yer :)

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:55 pm

:D

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:03 pm

Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:19 pm

TheGuyUk wrote:Hello I am new to this forum and Raspberry Pi's in general.
Welcome!
As to the conversatition here about Pi Zero production rates I suggest letting those who are doing it handle it. The posited suggested model of ramping up production is flawed, to simplistic and not like for like comparison. It has no tooling, storage, or financing costs factored in to start with.
This is hardly the first time that a Raspberry Pi model has been in short supply, particularly soon after launch. The whole Pi phenomenon is unprecedented in the SBC market. Prior to the Pi, if you had publicly stated that someone could sell 8 million small, cheap SBCs in 4 years, the best you could have hoped for would have been to be laughed at. The worst would have been a visit from some guys with a very long sleeved white coat to take you gently away to a home for the bewildered. Such a claim wouldn't have been credible in any way, shape or form.

Now, of course, the issue would be, "How can enough Pis be made to satisfy demand when no one knows how high that demand may be?" If you look at a graph of sales over time, you won't find a "roll off" of the curve that indicates demand leveling off and only selling to people new to the product or needing replacement units (that is, "market saturation", or--as I call it--a "steady state situation"). When you consider that the main, intended market: education, has barely started to use Pis in any volume, the potential "up side" is very, very large. The potential is not for tens of millions over a period of years, but possibly as much as hundreds of millions per year.
The Raspberry Pi Zero is a prototyping or one off product board by design. Anyone wanting a minimal computer to access the internet could easily purchase a Android TV box or dongle, use a library computer (while waiting if in the UK).
I am not convinced that the RPF had any particular use in mind for the Pi0. It is a "computer for $5" and that may be an end in itself (from the RPF perspective). The community will find uses for Pi0s. Potentially, a lot of uses. I don't think *anyone* knows what those uses are yet because there simply aren't enough Pi0s in circulation for people to discover very many uses....yet. Now, clearly, the Pi0 will have applications where space and/or power are restrictive limitations.

As for prototyping, like beginners, the Pi0 is not a good choice unless that person using it has pretty wide experience with SBCs or--at least--MCUs. The difference between a TV dongle and *any* Pi is that the Pi gives you access to both the hardware and the software. It is not a "black box". See Eben's remarks about "the tablet trap" for why this matters. The whole point of the educational uses of the Pi, going back to the original concept that led to it, was open hardware and open access to software. The secondary concern was "cheap enough to break without concern". Even a Pi2B is pretty good on that second point (unless you are so poor that you're wondering where your next meal is coming from), and the Pi0 is truly outstanding on the second point...or will be once the imbalance between supply and demand evens out to the point that you can order a fistful of Pi0s pretty much any time you want and get them delivered in less than a week.
The Pi's will be ready when they are baked no matter how much you stare at the oven door! So relax a little fokes :-)
While that is obviously true (and some folks here are less antsy than others about it), the question that people are asking is, "What does the timer on the oven say?"

TheGuyUk
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:08 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:09 am

:D All good discussion point but lets leave it there else I make this discussion (thread) go off topic to much.

DirkS
Posts: 10453
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:46 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:26 am

TheGuyUk wrote::D All good discussion point but lets leave it there else I make this discussion (thread) go off topic to much.
That's normal with these kind of topics: they go off-topic, get locked, new one is created, ... :roll:

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