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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:15 pm
by surfparadise
....this situation is pretty ridiculous....

Before to announce a product and start to sell it, a company should be verify the availability and the reseller channels chain. The foundation is not like a kickstart company, that you could tollerate this problems.... Is a company that has already sold milions of boards!!!

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:35 pm
by Heater
surfparadise,

Quite right, the foundation is not like a kickstart company. Neither is it a for profit company with a ton of money to invest into speculatively filling up supply channels with product prior to launch.

It's a charity. With an educational mission. I think they were very wise to start off on a small scale with the Zero. How would they know if there would be a huge demand for it or none?

With a tight budget it's better to dip your toe in the water before diving in head first.

Now that demand for the Zero is clear, let's see what happens next.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:39 pm
by liz
Zero is in continuous volume production. Tens of thousands are coming off the line as I type this. We're pushing them out as fast as we can, but they're not currently being made at the same rate as the "big" Pis. The level of demand is insane, even for a Raspberry Pi product: if you guys keep buying at the rate you are doing, I don't see things levelling for a few months.

Summary: Lots of people want a $5 computer. Volume ramps take time. We are a charity, and we don't have unlimited capital to do that as fast as some of you would like. Zeros are out there if you are canny about shopping (you'll see plenty of people posting here who have several already), and they are being made and put in stores all the time: the stores set their own schedules for when they go live. So posting "when will Zero be in stock, ya ratbags?" won't get you a helpful answer from us.

Again, the current resellers are Pimoroni, The Pi Hut, Adafruit and Microcenter. We won't be adding to that list until we're in a position where they don't all disappear off the shelves the moment they're in stock, and we'll be asking those outlets to stick to one per customer until the stock situation levels out.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:41 pm
by surfparadise
Heater wrote:surfparadise,

Quite right, the foundation is not like a kickstart company. Neither is it a for profit company with a ton of money to invest into speculatively filling up supply channels with product prior to launch.

It's a charity. With an educational mission. I think they were very wise to start off on a small scale with the Zero. How would they know if there would be a huge demand for it or none?

With a tight budget it's better to dip your toe in the water before diving in head first.

Now that demand for the Zero is clear, let's see what happens next.

...yes of course.... after the impact of the raspberry pi, who could imagine that a 'computer' of 5$ could have a huge demand.....

Come on Heater....

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:44 pm
by surfparadise
liz wrote:Zero is in continuous volume production. Tens of thousands are coming off the line as I type this. We're pushing them out as fast as we can, but they're not currently being made at the same rate as the "big" Pis. The level of demand is insane, even for a Raspberry Pi product: if you guys keep buying at the rate you are doing, I don't see things levelling for a few months.

Summary: Lots of people want a $5 computer. Volume ramps take time. We are a charity, and we don't have unlimited capital to do that as fast as some of you would like. Zeros are out there if you are canny about shopping (you'll see plenty of people posting here who have several already), and they are being made and put in stores all the time: the stores set their own schedules for when they go live. So posting "when will Zero be in stock, ya ratbags?" won't get you a helpful answer from us.

Again, the current resellers are Pimoroni, The Pi Hut, Adafruit and Microcenter. We won't be adding to that list until we're in a position where they don't all disappear off the shelves the moment they're in stock, and we'll be asking those outlets to stick to one per customer until the stock situation levels out.

Thank you Liz, I will wait patiently and with confidence that in future RS will start to sell it.

Thank you for your implication.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:03 pm
by Massi
liz wrote:he current resellers are Pimoroni, The Pi Hut, Adafruit and Microcenter.[/b] We won't be adding to that list until we're in a position where they don't all disappear off the shelves the moment they're in stock, and we'll be asking those outlets to stick to one per customer until the stock situation levels out.
And this makes a lot of sense.
What doesn't make sense to me (i underline, to me.) is the "well, we are not able to dispatch to half of europe, sad, pay an insane amount of money"
i can shop from china and i can't shop from england, this is really amazing to me.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:38 pm
by liz
It's not really realistic to compare the very unusual situation in China (with government and other subsidies for overseas mail, along with some interesting scaling factors - see https://www.quora.com/How-do-Chinese-eB ... -the-world) with mailing systems in other countries.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:51 pm
by Massi
liz wrote:It's not really realistic to compare the very unusual situation in China (with government and other subsidies for overseas mail, along with some interesting scaling factors - see https://www.quora.com/How-do-Chinese-eB ... -the-world) with mailing systems in other countries.

That's true, but the point should be the number of losses. That's the reason why the pihut / pimoroni don't ship to italy/spain/greece/all the east of europe, isn't it?
Shipments are managed by local post service if they come from china as like as if the come from england, and i'm not loosing anything from china..

btw that's just my personal curiosity, i understand the foundation's position fully and it's not a problem at all.
We are still in the moment when "there is money on the table" (due to lack of zeros) so it's only a matter of waiting.. only we from the third world will have to wait longer..

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:51 pm
by jamesh
Massi wrote:
liz wrote:It's not really realistic to compare the very unusual situation in China (with government and other subsidies for overseas mail, along with some interesting scaling factors - see https://www.quora.com/How-do-Chinese-eB ... -the-world) with mailing systems in other countries.

That's true, but the point should be the number of losses. That's the reason why the pihut / pimoroni don't ship to italy/spain/greece/all the east of europe, isn't it?
Shipments are managed by local post service if they come from china as like as if the come from england, and i'm not loosing anything from china..

btw that's just my personal curiosity, i understand the foundation's position fully and it's not a problem at all.
We are still in the moment when "there is money on the table" (due to lack of zeros) so it's only a matter of waiting.. only we from the third world will have to wait longer..
I think this is something you need to take up with the local delivery service. Clearly Pimoroni et al want to sell as much stuff as possible, so they are not going to take themselves out of a market unless they are forced to. And they have been forced to by the number of apparently undelivered packages. The margins on Pi0 are so small, that there is no way they can afford to resend another item if one gets lost. That's an instant loss on the books.

If I were in Spain, I'd be looking to become a dealer myself. Get batches sent over and distribute them yourselves. Batches go by UPS or similar, so are recorded, but the per item cost will be much lower.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:59 pm
by Heater
surfparadise,
...yes of course.... after the impact of the raspberry pi, who could imagine that a 'computer' of 5$ could have a huge demand.....

Come on Heater....
Don't listen to me. Listen to Liz. She days much the same thing though.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:07 pm
by Pithagoros
Regarding China, I don't think it's possible to beat China up with European distance selling regs though you could get them through Paypal. Credit card purchase protection for values under £100 is more difficult to claim.

And the problem with mail loss in certain places is that often the local delivery services is fine in most areas, but in patches the mail services have proved to be unreliable.
And from my experience of mail order, there does seem to be a bit of a "sport" in certain parts of Europe, where people will purchase something and then claim they didn't receive in order to receive a second one or a refund. I'm not pointing the finger at any Mediterranean nation here, these problems were elsewhere within the European trade area. Our response was the same, stop selling to those loss-making areas. It's just not sustainable.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:25 pm
by W. H. Heydt
surfparadise wrote:Hello,

I want to say thanks to all the Raspberry Pi staff to this fantastic device, I'm really a fan.

Anyway I have to say that is a shame that after more than a moth the Raspberry Zero is impossible to buy.

Anyone know when this situation will be normalized? The Rs Component until know doesn't have in catalogue the rasperry zero. Anyone know when will be available through RS?
If I were being cynical, I would say that, with regards to Raspberry Pis, this *is* normal. When the original Model B launched, I put in a request for one during the first week they were on sale (think very early March). I didn't actually get one until late May, so nearly 3 months later. That was before people had woken up to just what a phenomenon the Pi was going to be. Now, everyone becomes aware of any new RPF product very, very fast and until there are at least hundreds of thousands out there, they're hard to get.

When will it be possible to randomly order a Pi0 and expect more or less immediate shipment? My guess is that it will be at least another 6 months yet.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:29 pm
by W. H. Heydt
surfparadise wrote:After that the stock of zero device will be at normal level, the only solution would be to find an arrangment with the big reseller (rs and farnell). Maybe increasing the price of 1 or 2 dollars....to make the margin more atractive to them.
Heh...the big resellers could actually become REsellers....buy Pi0s from PiMoroni and PiHut and resell them for a price more to their liking, just like everyone else does with the other Pi models.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:25 pm
by mikerr
So we have a strange situation where

1) Raspberry Pi foundation has to front the production cost of Pi Zeroes (unlike other pi - where farnell pay )

2) they are making less zeroes than other models - yet demand is probably much higher than other models
(most people want multiples due to the size/price)

Limited production capital:
liz wrote:Volume ramps take time. We are a charity, and we don't have unlimited capital to do that as fast as some of you would like.
Brings back to 1) if farnell/rs were front the cost of production (more capital) there'd be more zeroes made to meet demand ?

3) If less are being made because zero is less profit than other models.... then maybe $5 is too low ...

4) RPi are only supplying a select few stores (and stated they won't be changing that anytime soon) , yet complaining when other stores "not in the inner circle" are selling at higher than RRP ?
Raspberry Pi wrote:Raspberry Pi ‏@Raspberry_Pi 5h5 hours ago

If you see stores selling #PiZero at outrageous prices and pretending their hands are tied, please don’t buy. Just encourages bad behaviour.
https://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/status ... 8515478529

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:17 am
by W. H. Heydt
mikerr wrote: 2) they are making less zeroes than other models - yet demand is probably much higher than other models
(most people want multiples due to the size/price)
Demand is *visible* right now because supply hasn't ramped up to where demand is. I don't know about "most people". Certainly *some* people want high numbers of Pi0s, but for comparison, I have about 12 Pi2Bs, but that's an accumulation over almost a year.

Of Pi0s...I have one, and through curious circumstances, that will soon be two. In any case, I don't anticipate ever having a dozen of them...unless I suddenly find them useful as gifts.

It's interesting to see people referencing RS and Farnell. Around the end of November, during a brief window of opportunity, I placed an order for a "Pi Zero kit" (it has a cable set) with MCM. This afternoon...I got an e-mailed shipping confirmation. So...the Farnell distribution chain is getting a few, anyway. Perhaps only enough to fill orders they committed to before realizing they didn't want to carry it, but some none the less.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:27 pm
by jdevora
Pithagoros wrote:Regarding China, I don't think it's possible to beat China up with European distance selling regs though you could get them through Paypal. Credit card purchase protection for values under £100 is more difficult to claim.

And the problem with mail loss in certain places is that often the local delivery services is fine in most areas, but in patches the mail services have proved to be unreliable.
And from my experience of mail order, there does seem to be a bit of a "sport" in certain parts of Europe, where people will purchase something and then claim they didn't receive in order to receive a second one or a refund. I'm not pointing the finger at any Mediterranean nation here, these problems were elsewhere within the European trade area. Our response was the same, stop selling to those loss-making areas. It's just not sustainable.
I think that the sensible response to that behavior is to "enforce" registered mail to those places , no drop the service all together, better pay a bit more for shipping than not be able to get anything.

Cheers
JD

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:16 am
by Massi
jdevora wrote:I think that the sensible response to that behavior is to "enforce" registered mail to those places , no drop the service all together, better pay a bit more for shipping than not be able to get anything.
that would be too easy.
but in the end.. who cares of those pizza&maccheroni guys?

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:41 pm
by Dr H
My local (Berlin) vendor informed me today (Jan 27) that they have Zeros available now, one per customer.

I would interpret this as a sign that a larger amount of the Zeros became available at the market the last days.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:17 am
by NeoCoder
Hello everyone,
Very excited to hear the Pi Zero is still being produced! However, I am a little disappointed to hear that with the astoundingly large demand that production is not increasing to accomidate. Perhaps some light could be shed on this?

Is it feasible to believe there will be more shipments to the U.S.?

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:58 am
by jamesh
NeoCoder wrote:Hello everyone,
Very excited to hear the Pi Zero is still being produced! However, I am a little disappointed to hear that with the astoundingly large demand that production is not increasing to accomidate. Perhaps some light could be shed on this?

Is it feasible to believe there will be more shipments to the U.S.?
It's being made as fast as the production line and supply chain allow. Many thousands per week.

Worth noting that lead time on the SoC is quite long (months), and they can only be made as fast as the fab can produce the chips.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:03 pm
by Pithagoros
Massi wrote:
jdevora wrote:I think that the sensible response to that behavior is to "enforce" registered mail to those places , no drop the service all together, better pay a bit more for shipping than not be able to get anything.
that would be too easy.
but in the end.. who cares of those pizza&maccheroni guys?
Of course we tried that.
Doesn't work out the way you expect, the stuff still disappears. Even with the items that we had a signature for, if the addressee denies it's their signature then you still have to replace.

And in either case the £9 + shipping cost is lost.

So yes, too easy.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:14 pm
by Massi
Pithagoros wrote:Of course we tried that.
Doesn't work out the way you expect, the stuff still disappears. Even with the items that we had a signature for, if the addressee denies it's their signature then you still have to replace.
Oh yes, the "italian sport".
we also have a standing here in italy regarding who denied most the receiving of packages from UE
Then we have the "champions league" with the best "deniers" of italy, spain and eastern europe.

i prefer to think that the south/east europe market isn't interesting enough for you. or for the foundation.

really really sad.
there's something of racism in all this, but in the end.. as i was saying.. who cares?

Thanks for the clarification

Edit: my thousandth post trashed for this incredible story. Sadness added to sadness

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:55 pm
by jamesh
Massi wrote:
Pithagoros wrote:Of course we tried that.
Doesn't work out the way you expect, the stuff still disappears. Even with the items that we had a signature for, if the addressee denies it's their signature then you still have to replace.
Oh yes, the "italian sport".
we also have a standing here in italy regarding who denied most the receiving of packages from UE
Then we have the "champions league" with the best "deniers" of italy, spain and eastern europe.

i prefer to think that the south/east europe market isn't interesting enough for you. or for the foundation.

really really sad.
there's something of racism in all this, but in the end.. as i was saying.. who cares?

Thanks for the clarification

Edit: my thousandth post trashed for this incredible story. Sadness added to sadness
If it not cost effective to send something to somewhere (because things 'go missing'), then you don't send to that place. Economics 101. If there is a more expensive method of sending where things DONT go missing, you use that, otherwise you lose money, which is not sustainable.

It is NOT the fault of the supplier, but whoever is causing the problems at the destination. Take it up with them. It's not racism, it's staying in business pragmatism.

I'm surprised no-one in these destinations has decided to become a distributor. Buy a load of devices, ship them over in bulk (insured!), sell on using local postage rates.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:57 pm
by plugwash
jamesh wrote: I'm surprised no-one in these destinations has decided to become a distributor. Buy a load of devices, ship them over in bulk (insured!), sell on using local postage rates.
can't really do that when the existing suppliers will only sell them one at a time.

Re: Raspberry Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:02 pm
by jamesh
plugwash wrote:
jamesh wrote: I'm surprised no-one in these destinations has decided to become a distributor. Buy a load of devices, ship them over in bulk (insured!), sell on using local postage rates.
can't really do that when the existing suppliers will only sell them one at a time.
You need to talk to the Foundation and get supply direct from them. In large enough quantities that might be possible. I suspect if you did so you would find things still go missing unless you use expensive delivery services.