jasoncampbell4
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:44 pm

Turns out the only de jure official language in the UK is Welsh. It is written into law that in Wales the government has to deal with you in Welsh if you so wish. As far as I can tell there is no obligation for them to deal with you in English at all.
Wales is a bilingual country so both English & Welsh are recognised languages and the Welsh Assembly Government can’t force Welsh on anyone in a court of law.

Heater
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:48 pm

ejolson,
I thought the main point of the Pi was to reverse the decline of computer literacy in the already developed world.
As far as I can tell, having watched many of Eben's presentations and interviews, the original concept for a Pi computer was to get more kids in the UK up to speed in computing so that the British Universities would get more Comp. Sci. applicants and they did not have to waste a year teach the basics. Basics that the kids of the original micro-computer revolution in the 1980's had been absorbing for years before they got to uni.

The rest of the world came into the picture later.

Eben did indicate though that the Pi was still too expensive for many in a presentation he gave when the Pi Zero was launched. I assumed from that poorer kids in poorer countries were the intended audience for the Zero.

Heater
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:55 pm

jasoncampbell4,
Wales is a bilingual country so both English & Welsh are recognised languages...
I know.
...and the Welsh Assembly Government can’t force Welsh on anyone in a court of law.
I have no idea who can force who to do what. But the fact remains that there is nothing written into law recognizing English as an official language. Where as for Welsh there is.

I get the feeling that the point is the other way around. Welsh speaking people in Wales wanted the right to correspond with their government in Welsh. So it ended up on the statute books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages ... ed_Kingdom

Woll
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:10 am

BMS Doug wrote:
DougieLawson wrote:
Heater wrote: What is this MLE of which you speak?
I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicult ... on_English; I read it, it made no sense, I'm no wiser. It's nearly 20 years since we moved out of London to Basingstoke I wonder what has changed in the big smoke. I'm from a part of the country where they speak properly with a nice clear rhotic accent.
I live in greater London, I work in central London.
I've never heard people talk like that (except on TV).
I live and work in London, and interact with all the different communities and the London accent has definitely changed. There is an emphasis on the R sounds in words with fake Jamaican accents (which where adopted in the late 70s). And the Asian community have a CA sound in words ending in ing. And there's a yuppie posh accent from people who have moved to London to work which stands out a mile.

I can tell if someone is from North or South of the river by their accent.

I still drop me h's though as one likes to speak proper.
Who ate all the Pi's? Who ate all the Pi's?
Boris Johnson, Boris Johnson,
Who ate all the Pi's?

Pithagoros
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:16 am

Did you know that Pencoed translates as Treetop ?????

(sort of head of the trees).

Maybe the pi mafon grows on trees.

Heater
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:21 am

Cool, they have a Raspberry Pi tree in Wales.

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davidcoton
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:32 am

Not quite a tree, but several plants producing different varieties of Pi.
Signature retired

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:33 am

Heater wrote:Did you know, there is only one official language in the United Kingdom?

Can you guess what it is?
French? As established William of Normandy? Or German as established by George I?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:40 am

hippy wrote:
BMS Doug wrote:Given the (observed) slow dispersal rate I would say that it will be several months until any stock made available doesn't sell out within an hour of release and while that trend continues I don't believe it is reasonable to remove the 1/customer cap.
The real shame is that the developing world the Pi Zero was priced for will probably be the last to benefit from it; unless there are plans for Zeroes to be shipped and sold/gifted where needed, bypassing others hoping to get their hands on one ( ten, or more ).
I think the Pi0 suffers from the same defect as the Model A in that it has only one USB port. That is not to say that there aren't situations where a stripped down Model A with a lot more memory wouldn't be just about ideal, but for beginning students it has some real problems. That said, it means that *several* of the other components of a workable system are now the financial bottleneck for the developing world. Indeed, a Pi0 is--basically--price competitive with a mouse. Keyboards cost more. Monitors (unless you scrounge them) are *way* more expensive even than a Pi2B.

So...for the developing world, at this point the thing to attack in terms of price is monitors.

emma1997
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:16 am

To be consistent with Zero cost that would mean a 7" or bigger TFT for $5 or so but considering current extreme overpricing of the "official" one very unlikely to happen.

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Jim Manley
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:31 am

Heater wrote:Jim, Do stop it with abusive, baseless and muddled rants. You are an embarrassment to your countrymen.
There's a good chap.
I'll make you a deal, Heater. You apologize for your every single negative comment about the U.S. and Americans who saved your country, and pretty much every other one in most of the world, from oblivion, and I won't have to keep setting the record straight. My father risked his life from Normandy through VE Day after spending two years in Southern England preparing for the invasion (we've both lived there for years, so we are very familiar with how things really work there). He also lost a third of his body weight as a Nazi POW (after surviving Normandy, Remagen, Bastogne, and every other battle up through the Bulge). That means that eating normally became impossible for the rest of his life, and he ruptured four vertebrae in his back from parachute jumps that have kept him in unending pain to this day (yes, he's still alive at 93), just so you could grow up in a free world. I spent 22 years of my life preventing the kind of carnage that WW-II inflicted on scores of millions, and all you can do is complain that things aren't perfect in a land that your forebears were primarily responsible for screwing up and that we've been trying to fix for centuries. I am no embarrassment to anyone, least of all my countrymen/women. You're the embarrassment and only you can change that - I can only point out why it is. Deal?[
emma1997 wrote:Sorry JM but it looks like all you may have done (aside from spitting on Supermans cape, LOL) is alert grabbers who might live nearby to take advantage of the Microcenter loss leader. I would be surprised if you managed to get your hands on one there.
It would have been a good idea to try acquiring one myself that way but no need anymore thanks to snagging a couple from Pimoroni. Wish I didn't have to stay up all night refreshing browser and then take that 300% markup but desperate times call for desperate measures.
Hi Emma - If it hasn't already become more than obvious, I carry all colors of Kryptonite just in case I happen across any hapless anti-superheroes, so they don't even attract my notice, let alone any concern for my wellbeing :lol:

The board in the Philadelphia store appears to have been sold, so no more there. I do have acquaintances and friends with relatives in all three areas, but they won't be able to get to the stores until Monday as they normally only get into the cities where the stores are located after long commutes to work, and it's not worth a special trip when they're not already there, given the price of the board and limit of one at the $5.00 price. I already have access to one Zero now for my classes and a second one is allegedly now sitting in a box at Adafruit awaiting pickup by UPS on Monday. Only 187 more to go for each of my students to be able to have one just in my classes, which I've told them they will each have if they demonstrate the willingness to learn how to use them to learn computing. That would be a small dent in the 1,982 students in my entire school, and 86,563 in my district (I'm trying to run a pilot to show how Pii can be used to help learn all subjects).

I still can't understand how the Foundation can claim to be an educational charity when they allow every Tom, Dick, and Harry (especially the "Richards" :( ) to glom onto boards ahead of students and educators as also happened with the early Model B boards. Many of those boards quickly wound up in the backs of drawers when unknowledgeable people who were just jumping on the Internet bandwagon realized that they weren't desktop computer replacements for $35 (DUH!).

We've seen reports of people mentioning this repeatedly here in the forum, especially when the 2B was announced, and they said, "Oh, I think I'll get one of the new ones to see if it's more useful than the earlier ones (plural) that wound up sitting in my desk." That's not to mention how many "educational" computers wound up as media boxes and for other uses which required nothing more than downloading an image and then only interacting with a foofy UI to play music or videos. I have no problem with them being used in such ways by adults, just not while there are literally millions of much less well-off kids around the world who could really benefit from Pii, especially the Zero. "The World Wonders", as was infamously sent in a message that enraged Admiral "Bull" Halsey during WW-II in the Pacific (each message was initiated and terminated with a random pair of words starting with the same letter to defeat pattern analysis based on assumption of common salutations, which Halsey's communications officer didn't strip off as they were supposed to have - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders).

OK my homies in NYC, my parents grew up in Queens and I was born and grew up about 25 miles East of the MicroCenter in Brooklyn, so please help me hook my students up with some Zeroes from the Brooklyn/Gowanus Expressway store - thanks!

Moderated, another TLDR useless rant will lead to a ban if you do not stop!
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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ukscone
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:43 am

Jim Manley wrote: OK my homies in NYC, my parents grew up in Queens and I was born and grew up about 25 miles East of the MicroCenter in Brooklyn, so please help me hook my students up with some Zeroes from the Brooklyn/Gowanus Expressway store - thanks!
Jim, Sent you a PM.

jasoncampbell4
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:57 am

Heater wrote:jasoncampbell4,
Wales is a bilingual country so both English & Welsh are recognised languages...
I know.
...and the Welsh Assembly Government can’t force Welsh on anyone in a court of law.
I have no idea who can force who to do what. But the fact remains that there is nothing written into law recognizing English as an official language. Where as for Welsh there is.

I get the feeling that the point is the other way around. Welsh speaking people in Wales wanted the right to correspond with their government in Welsh. So it ended up on the statute books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages ... ed_Kingdom


If you have no idea why suggest you do? Wales is a multicultural country, not some backwater where courts of law only hear cases in Welsh. Welsh is one of many protected languages under EU law, nobody is expected to defend themselves in a court of law (or otherwise) in a language they don’t understand within the EU.

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Jim Manley
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:37 am

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier (or, more likely, someone else who's actually sane ;) ), but in theory, if we get enough people together (preferably students, their parents, and their educators, first), we should be able to contract with Element 14 to build us Zeroes at whatever quantity we can fund up-front that meets, or exceeds, their 3,000 - 5,000 unit minimum. Whether they can do it for $5.00 per board is the big question, but for those who want a variant that makes it easier to add features like WiFi, more than one USB data port, etc., this might also be a way to do that.

It's not clear to me whether the Foundation must/would allow this since they own the design of the Zero and I'm not sure it's actually an open hardware design (yet?). My understanding is that, if feasible, this could be completed in less than two months, based on what we've seen over the past four years. Once the pump is primed, we should be able to repeat it at least once a month, if not weekly if volume warrants it. If the Foundation wants to keep feeding the hobbyist/industrial customers from their pipeline, that would be great.

FYI, I never drink or do drugs - can you imagine what my rants would look like in that case? :lol:
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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Jim Manley
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:53 am

ukscone wrote:
Jim Manley wrote:OK my homies in NYC, my parents grew up in Queens and I was born and grew up about 25 miles East of the MicroCenter in Brooklyn, so please help me hook my students up with some Zeroes from the Brooklyn/Gowanus Expressway store - thanks
Jim, Sent you a PM.
Got it and replied. I knew there were real Superheroes somewhere Out There. The Kryptonite is kept in a shielded carrying case to allow for discriminate use only as needed with Anti-Superhero Suspect-es (the invention of an acronym is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers and is left to the imagination of the reader ;) ).
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

Heater
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:12 am

jasoncampbell4,
If you have no idea why suggest you do?
I don't hold forth on the law because I am not a lawyer. I was simply stating what I thought was an interesting fact about the "officialness" of languages within the UK. As far as I know it is correct. I even offered a link to some supporting evidence. That's all.
Wales is a multicultural country, not some backwater where courts of law only hear cases in Welsh. Welsh is one of many protected languages under EU law, nobody is expected to defend themselves in a court of law (or otherwise) in a language they don’t understand within the EU.
I did not make any assertions contrary to any of the above. My apologies if it sounded that way.

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r3d4
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:53 am

-.-
Last edited by r3d4 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pithagoros
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:23 am

On the subject of crowdfunding a special build from Farnell, there was a thread before Christmas that I can't seem to find anymore.
It discussed the use of an independent website, or Kickstarter/IndieGoGo etc to fund a design, perhaps a Zero with added Ethernet/WifI and the chip from the Pi2B? Maybe it wasn't those specs and that is just my wishlist.
Anyway, the guy who had the idea was talked out of it, I think because people are unlikely to agree on what the actual spec should be.

As for the Zer0 as a learning device, from my viewpoint I still think a Pi2B is the better ab initio learning device. I see the Zer0 as a deployed project computer. A sort of more hackable compute module.
Low cost monitors are existing TVs, with HDMI being more than 10 years old now, they will become prevalent and there being less of a need for HDMI->RF modulator converters that cost around $15.

Regarding Pi Zer0 availability, I've managed to find four more since boxing day, by being vigilant, included one MagPi buried on a rack. I've gifted most of them to the parents of school children where I could be as sure as I can be that they will be put to good use, the last one will find a home this week. Stateside, the distribution lag should be unwinding soon and the MagPi #40 will appear in B&N.

one last point, is there no ignore/block facility on these forums? Maybe on the silver theme? It would be handy so I didn't need to see all the jingoism and specious history rubbish that occasionally appears. Great if people want that stuff under General, but greater if I could avoid it. If I wanted to read stuff like that I would go to the web's own latrine that is YouTube comments.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:44 am

Pithagoros wrote:On the subject of crowdfunding a special build from Farnell, there was a thread before Christmas that I can't seem to find anymore.
It discussed the use of an independent website, or Kickstarter/IndieGoGo etc to fund a design, perhaps a Zero with added Ethernet/WifI and the chip from the Pi2B? Maybe it wasn't those specs and that is just my wishlist.
Anyway, the guy who had the idea was talked out of it, I think because people are unlikely to agree on what the actual spec should be..
Actually it was cost as Farnell wanted to build 3,000 units minimum afaiaa

Regarding the ZERO it will be interesting to see how many get used long term considering 1B+ is £19.20 from RS
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
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QuietZone
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:55 pm

one last point, is there no ignore/block facility on these forums? Maybe on the silver theme? It would be handy so I didn't need to see all the jingoism and specious history rubbish that occasionally appears. Great if people want that stuff under General, but greater if I could avoid it. If I wanted to read stuff like that I would go to the web's own latrine that is YouTube comments.
Alas, web boards in general and this one in particular are very anemic with respect to killfile/ignore functionality. Very poor compared to rich, useful environments, such as "trn" (still the best!)

It really is a pity, but obviously that sort of functionality is not high on the priority lists of any of those in charge.
"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody come sit next to me." — Alice Roosevelt Longworth

DirkS
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:01 pm

Pithagoros wrote:one last point, is there no ignore/block facility on these forums? Maybe on the silver theme?
You can add people to your friends / foes lists. Should be in the user control panel and also from a forum members profile page (click on posters name).

davenull
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:12 pm

...or a moderator just could pick out all or at least most of the OT posts and put them seperated to the OT forum
That's very quickly done by the phpbb3 "Quickmoderation" Button right-side of the Postreply Btn, only visible to moderators.
:geek:
(ok,
.this
is admittedly OT, too) :oops:
#define S sqrt(t+2*i*i)<2
#define F(a,b) for(a=0;a<b;++a)
float x,y,r,i,s,j,t,n;int main(){F(y,64){F(x,99){r=i=t=0;s=x/33-2;j=y/32-1;F(n,50&S){t=r*r-i*i;i=2*r*i+j;r=t+s;}if(S){PointOut(x,y);}}}for(;;);}

emma1997
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:29 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote: Actually it was cost as Farnell wanted to build 3,000 units minimum afaiaa
Considering these silly feature requests that could easily blossom to hundreds of thousands of dollars. IMO the current design, being the only possibility for staying in the $5 range, is fine. In fact an amazing accomplishment in view of the capabilities.

I don't know if the 1 per customer constraint is seller or RPF but thankfully allowed "most" a fighting chance to get their hands on one.

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jackokring
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:12 pm

As a pound shop USB hub will handle a WiFi dongle, a keyboard, a mouse and a thumb drive, it is as pointed out the monitor which is the problem. Some of the LCD 3.5" GPIO based ones are cheap, but the environment is not sufficiently 'shrunk' to fit on this superlative 480*320 compared to the '80s TV resolution of 256*192.

For the console, a 8*8 font would give 60*40 characters, which is massive enough for reasonable editing, although hard on the eye. The GUI has the problem of needing smaller fonts set up by some "small screen" option. This of course should be near the "big screen/blind" option to make all fonts bigger. An easy tray drop down would be good.
Pi[NFA]=B256R0USB CL4SD8GB Raspbian Stock.
Pi[Work]=A+256 CL4SD8GB Raspbian Stock.
My favourite constant 1.65056745028

ejolson
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:47 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:I think the Pi0 suffers from the same defect as the Model A in that it has only one USB port. That is not to say that there aren't situations where a stripped down Model A with a lot more memory wouldn't be just about ideal, but for beginning students it has some real problems.
A Pi Zero with a built-in USB hub already exists and is called the B+. The fact that the USB port on the Pi Zero and Pi A/A+ is directly attached to the SOC means the port can work in device mode. This, the price and the much smaller form factor differentiate the Pi Zero from the other Pi's and make it suitable for other uses.

Edit: i had written that the Zero plus a USB hub and Ethernet dongle costs more then a B+. As has been pointed out below, this may or may not be true depending on exactly what and where you buy.
Last edited by ejolson on Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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