User avatar
Shoka
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:18 am

Having just spent a happy couple of hours soldering headers on to a couple of Pi Zero's, I'd now cheerfully pay a little more for a version with the headers already installed.

For most uses of a Pi Zero, I suspect people will need the GPIO interfaces, so though the availability of a rock bottom Pi Zero is great, an option of populated GPIO headers would be really nice as well.

Opportunity for supplier value add maybe ??
Cheers Harry

ame
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:21 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:39 am

Shoka wrote:Having just spent a happy couple of hours soldering headers on to a couple of Pi Zero's, I'd now cheerfully pay a little more for a version with the headers already installed.

For most uses of a Pi Zero, I suspect people will need the GPIO interfaces, so though the availability of a rock bottom Pi Zero is great, an option of populated GPIO headers would be really nice as well.

Opportunity for supplier value add maybe ??
How much would you pay? I could easily see the price doubling to $10, as there's little margin on the Pi itself, and you have to hold stock of the Pi, and the headers, then pay someone to solder them, then repackage them. Volume would probably be small, so that's a further disincentive.

Personally I have no problem soldering my own, but I realise it's not for everyone. I'd be happy to do it for someone else nearby (or dozens of others) if I don't have to stock and track the parts.

User avatar
JRV
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:07 pm

I think the idea behind the PI-0 is for inexpensive embedded projects. The compute module is expensive, hard to setup, and requires a special connector. With the zero you can solder pins or wires to just the pins you need.

Soldering the pins on was no big deal for me, it took five minutes.
Last edited by JRV on Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gregeric
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:08 am

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:12 pm

Pimoroni said in one of their videos that they might offer Zeros with pre-soldered headers in the future. I suppose you'll have to wait until supply catches up with demand.

jasoncampbell4
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:27 pm

I’m new to Pi so my opinion should be taken in that context. I think the Pi Zero is built down to a price; it isn’t the ‘novice’ board (not suggesting anyone is a novice for wanting headers). I was one of those that did get a Zero (kit) and I’m still scratching my head on what to do with it- apart from soldering experience.

In the end I bought a Pi 2 which comes with everything I’ll need and really works out cheaper than a Zero if you have to buy all the extras- which I accept many enthusiasts won’t have to do. I suppose ultimately it will come down to demand, if there is demand it will happen but the point of the Zero is everything is stripped down to the essentials for embedded devices whereas the Pi 2 is capable of being a recognisable PC.


EDIT: I'd pay £2.50 for the GIPO header ready soldered.

mattmiller
Posts: 2247
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:58 pm

Soldered on GPIO headers is going to be one of the cheapest upgrades to go for and there will a lot of demand once people realise how powerful/VFM for the zero is for deploying projects that they've prototyped on a Pi2

I've thought of an alternative approach - a register of "solderers" who are willing to solder them up for "non-solderers".

You send them a PiZero with a 40pin header and include a SAE and they'll solder it up for you.

And/or take them around to local RJam/hackspace meeting where someone will do it for you and show you how to solder at same time :)

Matthew

gordon77
Posts: 5133
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:09 pm

Offering male or female connector maybe a good option.

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 17449
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:50 pm

gordon77 wrote:Offering male or female connector maybe a good option.
Well, I have no problem with soldering connectors on for local people, but I wouldn't trust my wife to use a soldering iron :lol:

gordon77
Posts: 5133
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:03 pm

:lol:

Merry Xmas

User avatar
Jim Manley
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: SillyCon Valley, California, and Powell, Wyoming, USA, plus The Universe
Contact: Website

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:06 pm

I complained I had no header soldered onto my Pi Zero until I met the kid who had no Pi Zero, or any other kind of Pi ... C'mon Sony, add some more production lines for the Zero, will ya? This "Bah, Humbug" act is getting old where a fantastic new minimal configuration was introduced just in time for the holidays that could benefit kids more than anything else that's been done so far. However, production has only been enough to boost magazine subscription and newsstand sales, and to those who have nothing better to do all day than watch their e-mail inbox for notification once a week of stock arrival at on-line vendors that's depleted within minutes. To quote Opus from "Bloom County", "PBBBBBTTTTTTTTT!!!!!"
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

mung
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:21 pm

Shoka wrote:Having just spent a happy couple of hours soldering headers on to a couple of Pi Zero's, I'd now cheerfully pay a little more for a version with the headers already installed.
WTF????? I would guess soldering the headers should take 2 minutes max, how did you manage to take two hours?

As an educational tool I hope the pi0 with help you learn how to solder better, practice makes perfect.

Also why not just buy a A+?

And finally as people are never happy and either there are complaints that 'rpi have headers and should not' xor 'rpi don't have headers and they should', I am going to complain that I want Schrödinger headers on all future rpi (i.e. all pi have both headers and no headers until you open the box and find out the probabalistic outcome that has occured in your particular universe).

Merry turkey time and happy new year to everyone :)

gordon77
Posts: 5133
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:16 pm

Maybe the OP is a beginner at soldering :D

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13047
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:26 am

I looked into getting some solderless headers (why? Speed, ease of use, non-permanent....). All sources I could find led back to one company. When I tried to order from them, having to poke them after an unconscionable delay. I was told that they are out of stock and discontinued...which is why none of the "retail" sources had any, either.

User avatar
Jim Manley
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: SillyCon Valley, California, and Powell, Wyoming, USA, plus The Universe
Contact: Website

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:49 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:I looked into getting some solderless headers (why? Speed, ease of use, non-permanent....). All sources I could find led back to one company. When I tried to order from them, having to poke them after an unconscionable delay. I was told that they are out of stock and discontinued...which is why none of the "retail" sources had any, either.
I've sent a query to the two distributors, and the original manufacturer that refers to them, to see if there are any lying around in the channel (as well as the distributor pricing or if samples are available), as someone once did for something obscure called the BCM-2835 ... :lol: Once I know that answer, I'm going to ask if it would be possible to create a female version, at what cost and for what minimum initial quantity.

They appear to manufacture pressure-fit connectors of other dimensions for a variety of other applications, so it may just be a matter of setting up and doing a run with cutting/pressing-machine settings and materials specific to 0.1-inch on-center male/female connectors. It may be possible that the female connectors will fit into standard plastic blocks so that they'll provide an Arduino-like functionality to allow solid wires or twisted wires with solid pins to be used directly with solderless breadboards and other components that use female headers (e.g., Arduinos and other single-board systems).
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

User avatar
Shoka
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:07 pm

The exact recommended header is not clear from the documentation I could find (to make it form and fit compatible with the other Pi's).

Not to say it's not somewhere obvious and I missed it.

I eventually cut some single row headers I had to hand down to 20 pins. Seems to work OK...

I spent most of an afternoon soldering up two Pi0's, a Phat DAC and replacing the SDcard holder on a broken PI B.

Including in that the time to get my soldering kit out of storage, a few test runs to get the soldering iron to a temp that the solder flowed on the pins correctly, inspecting the resulting soldered joints under magnification and scrubbing the soldered boards with isopropanol to clean the flux off, my time estimate for soldering up the Pi's is not that far off.


gregeric's info:
Pimoroni said in one of their videos that they might offer Zeros with pre-soldered headers in the future. I suppose you'll have to wait until supply catches up with demand.
Was what I was looking for. I'm not in any hurry.

I made my living as an electronic design engineer for a considerable number of years, and am no stranger to soldering, and I have a reasonably capable temperature controlled soldering station. I hate to think of the mess an novice to soldering, with an uncontrolled iron would make of the job. Or the casualty rate in Pi's getting overcooked.
Cheers Harry

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26876
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:59 am

My thoughts, if you want a small SBC with the GPIOs already attached, get the A+. Not much more expensive, not much bigger, has full size connectors, and is available!

Only reason for a Zero is smaller form factor.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

mattmiller
Posts: 2247
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:22 am

Not much more expensive, not much bigger,

4x the price of a PiZero

2x as big

fairly loose interpretation of "much"

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26876
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:12 pm

Nope. It's still 'small', and it's not 4x more expensive, one you add the extra connectors you might need (which of course is the point of this thread). But of course, there will always be times when you want something that small, for which the Zero will be fine.

But for general Pi use? Go with the B2! Forget the zero unless you specifically need what it offers. And the Zero will always be difficult to get hold of since production will never be at the same levels as the other Pi's, simply because the profit margin is so small. You couldn't run a business, or indeed a charity, on it. A bit like C.H.I.P..
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

User avatar
Shoka
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:23 pm

Sad to hear that Pi Zero will remain difficult to obtain.

I'm impressed by its cost, but even more impressed by its size and simplicity.

It's potentially a very neat controller for the various PI hats out there.

I'd happily accept a modest increase in the price to support that functionality as standard, rather than have to modify the device as shipped.

The foundation has demonstrated an absolute minimum Pi, but they have done better than that, they have made a really really useful compact interface device.
Cheers Harry

Heater
Posts: 16334
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:29 pm

Let's just say that the Raspberry Pi is all about education.

Soldering headers to your Pi Zero, if you need them, is a first lesson. A skill that everyone should have.

Next step is the Foundation sells you the naked Pi SoC chip and you have to design and make your own board to use it with :)
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:19 pm

A 1 in 1000.000 difference in difficulty level! Obviously you are kidding, but your post needs more than a single smilie!

pivoron
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:06 am

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:02 pm

"Having just spent a happy couple of hours soldering headers"
Ho, you got a couple happy hours for $5. Great deal, you are a lucky dude.

artfd
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:26 am

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:37 pm

I would like to see a YouTube video of a competent solderer taking a Zero from no headers to a full rack of soldered-on headers, all cleaned up and ready to use. With a timer running on-screen. Include the time it takes for the soldering iron to warm, of course. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Douglas6
Posts: 4903
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:34 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:06 am

artfd wrote:I would like to see a YouTube video of a competent solderer taking a Zero from no headers to a full rack of soldered-on headers, all cleaned up and ready to use. With a timer running on-screen. Include the time it takes for the soldering iron to warm, of course. :mrgreen:
It takes Lady Ada less than 2:30 minutes, plus time to heat the iron. Here, starting about 17:00

https://youtu.be/vm1-k9dKw84

User avatar
Jim Manley
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: SillyCon Valley, California, and Powell, Wyoming, USA, plus The Universe
Contact: Website

Re: Pi Zero with headers

Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:39 am

jamesh wrote:Nope. It's still 'small', and it's not 4x more expensive, one you add the extra connectors you might need (which of course is the point of this thread). But of course, there will always be times when you want something that small, for which the Zero will be fine.
But for general Pi use? Go with the B2! Forget the zero unless you specifically need what it offers. And the Zero will always be difficult to get hold of since production will never be at the same levels as the other Pi's, simply because the profit margin is so small. You couldn't run a business, or indeed a charity, on it. A bit like C.H.I.P..
So you, personally, are saying that you believe that the Zero is just a marketing come-on, created just to show up the C.H.I.P. price-wise. I don't believe that's the Foundation's goal for the Zero for a femtosecond and it would be more than nice for us to hear what the actual expectations for it are in terms of delivery into students' hands from someone who can speak authoritatively. I can tell you that from Out Here in the Real World, for those who can support their organizations, or for whom they have support or can arrange it, the $5 price of the Zero is a complete game-changer. Some of us are dedicated to getting computing components into the hands of everyone and anyone of any age who wants to learn, and the lower every single one of the barriers to entry is, the easier that becomes, and the sooner, the better.

Very little that the Foundation does has anything to do with the revenue it receives after development and production costs are deducted (it's not "profit" - charities are, by definition, non-profit organizations). If the Foundation was able to deliver only the Zero for $5 based on volunteer work (including yours, and thank you all very much for that), they would be contributing more not just to STEM and computing education, but education across all curricula than all of the other models, combined. We can't develop and produce a $5 Zero Out Here, but we sure can shop until we drop to beg, borrow, and steal (in the virtual sense, of course) everything else needed to get Zeroes in our students' hands so they can learn way more than you could ever imagine.

BTW, the Zero isn't just much smaller and less expensive than the other models, it's currently 40% faster, and has twice the DRAM than the A+ has. The latter does cost four times as much as the Zero because, other than the GPIO header pins (which cost nearly nothing, including soldering), the A+ needs the same cables, adapters, peripherals, and accessories that the Zero does for the same I/O functionality (i.e., no CSI or DSI needed, which is very typical).
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

Return to “General discussion”