gregeric
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:08 am

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:37 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
karrika wrote:In the long run I expect the PiZero hype to calm down. Any application requiring connectivity is better off with B+.
+1
I am convinced that in time many ZEROs will be unused, it is the price which is pushing the wanting not usefulness :shock:

Regards Connectivity anything more than USB "Gadget" Mode using a USB Cable at a couple of quid, makes the A+/B+ a more cost effective opttion IMO
If the Zero is purely about cost then yes; but if it's about small size, embedded in some device that needs connectivity, then I'm hoping people will pay ~£10 for BT+WiFi.

If you need WiFi on a tight budget, attach a £2 ESP8266 module with bodge wires.

Pithagoros
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:28 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
karrika wrote:In the long run I expect the PiZero hype to calm down. Any application requiring connectivity is better off with B+.
+1
I am convinced that in time many ZEROs will be unused, it is the price which is pushing the wanting not usefulness :shock:

Regards Connectivity anything more than USB "Gadget" Mode using a USB Cable at a couple of quid, makes the A+/B+ a more cost effective opttion IMO
I wouldn't use the word "Any". A+ is at least triple the price of a zero. Adapter cable for a WiFi module is negligible cost.
For my purposes, the Zero is the better choice.

But I agree that many Zeros will languish unused, especially as HotUKDeals has been alerting its userbase to Zero sales when they happen.
I'm also convinced that many A+, B+ and 2B are purchased and never used.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 23426
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:17 pm

Pithagoros wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:
karrika wrote:In the long run I expect the PiZero hype to calm down. Any application requiring connectivity is better off with B+.
+1
I am convinced that in time many ZEROs will be unused, it is the price which is pushing the wanting not usefulness :shock:

Regards Connectivity anything more than USB "Gadget" Mode using a USB Cable at a couple of quid, makes the A+/B+ a more cost effective opttion IMO
I wouldn't use the word "Any". A+ is at least triple the price of a zero. Adapter cable for a WiFi module is negligible cost.
For my purposes, the Zero is the better choice.

But I agree that many Zeros will languish unused, especially as HotUKDeals has been alerting its userbase to Zero sales when they happen.
I'm also convinced that many A+, B+ and 2B are purchased and never used.
OK to expand on what I wrote, many people who buy a $5 ZERO will do so without realising the cost of add-ons etc will make other models more cost effective.

Yes you can have 10M Ethernet, Wireless, Gadget Mode and USBNET but it is not plug and pray which many purchasers will expect, and yes I have a ZERO but only because I have the peripherals already.......
Rather than negativity think outside the box !
RPi 4B 4GB (SSD Boot) RaspiOS64 ARM64
Asus ChromeBox 3 Celeron is my other computer...

User avatar
karrika
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:21 am
Location: Finland

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:28 pm

It is not only the cost. When you start adding boards on the top of each other the design becomes wobbly. With one HAT you have about 24mm high setup. If I then add a second board we are up to 36mm. The design is impractical. Higher than what it is wide.

I was going to make a RetroPi using PiZero and Miscap. But after a while I realized that the height was a problem. So I did the design without networking. And I am glad I did it this way.
Image

For a better design I would go with Pi 2 and the Kickstarter SmartPi Touch.
Image

User avatar
milkboy007
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:21 pm

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:19 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
OK to expand on what I wrote, many people who buy a $5 ZERO will do so without realising the cost of add-ons etc will make other models more cost effective.

Yes you can have 10M Ethernet, Wireless, Gadget Mode and USBNET but it is not plug and pray which many purchasers will expect, and yes I have a ZERO but only because I have the peripherals already.......

i disagree. see my previouslink

for most people (more exp), this is not a problem, it is only for newcomers. the way you are putting it is like saying that "many people who buy a BAREBONE PC will do so without realising the cost of add-ons etc will make other models more cost effective." which is not true
1st, Total cost of getting an zero with peripherals to make it similar to B+ or A+, cost less, hence its more cost effective. its also smaller and more modular. for most people who dont need the cpu power of RPI2, Zero will be their choice.

IMO, A+ has been replace by Zero and while B+ will be in the niche market for education and newcomer, where easiest setup(hi priority) at the lowest price(lower priority) is their main reason to buy, then again they will most likely to choose RPi2 over B+. In the grand scheme of things most buyer will either buy PI2 or Zero.
Last edited by milkboy007 on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
milkboy007
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:21 pm

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:02 pm

karrika wrote:It is not only the cost. When you start adding boards on the top of each other the design becomes wobbly. With one HAT you have about 24mm high setup. If I then add a second board we are up to 36mm. The design is impractical. Higher than what it is wide.
i dont see this as a design problem.if you put zero and hats free standing on the right side up, yes it may become wobbly. but when you move zero on top ( either by flipping the boards and hats upside down or flipping the gpio) problem solved. it as a minor issue i dont see y you have to follow a design with no room of change. this is y i prefer to solder my own gpio header for some of my project. you also fasten it with Hex Brass Cylinder + Screw + Nut to eliminate wobble..
don forget the 16 cluster board for RPi Zero, which in my eyes is a beauty.
Image
on B+ or PI2, you need a rack

also you realised that those project is based on an older board. As zero is new, there will soon be a design that is based on zero, which will just be aesthetically pleasing.
your line of reason is flawed, same thing could be said, when B+ came out 2 yrs ago, when all of the hats design where based on the older B. but over time, it change as many board were design based on the , then new, B+..

andrum99
Posts: 1222
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:26 pm

stderr wrote:No one seems to have a plug splitter that makes available 4 wires for one network and 4 wires for another so you could use one network cable for two NICs. So there's room for a lot still.
Em, yes they have - they're called cable economisers, and Belkin do them for a few quid each - like these:http://www.amazon.co.uk/BELKIN-R6G058B- ... B008B42JSI. I've personally used these to magic up more wall ports when we ran out at my old job - you simply add a cable economiser in the comms cabinet, and another at the corresponding wall port and hey presto - 2 ports for the price of one! :)

(Gigabit ethernet needs all 4 pairs so you can't use these doublers on ports that are running gigabit ethernet).

PE4Pi
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:14 pm

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:19 pm

gregeric wrote:I see the CHIP is using the same 8723BS SDIO WiFi/BT4.0/FM module that I'm considering using for a Zero expansion board. Daft thing is, my add-on board will be more expensive than the CHIP :roll:
Greetings
Did you manage to get the second SDIO working?
Thanks
PE4Pi

ejolson
Posts: 5424
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:26 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:Regards Connectivity anything more than USB "Gadget" Mode using a USB Cable at a couple of quid, makes the A+/B+ a more cost effective opttion IMO
This way of using a Pi Zero has great potential. With properly configured software, plugging the Zero into the USB port of a regular PC would allow the Pi to use the keyboard, mouse and HD of the PC without plugging any extra cables. Thus, one has a portable Linux programming environment that could be mounted on any PC as easy as a thumb drive. Moreover, the same Pi could later be powered by a battery pack for mobile physical computing applications.

The smaller form factor, the micro USB connector and power requirements of the Zero make it more suitable for both of the above uses than any other model of Pi. Hopefully those who bought a Zero and discovered it does not make a good desktop computer will sell or give it to someone who has a better use for it. Along these lines, maybe we'll soon see a number of Zeros free for the cost of shipping under the "for sale" topic.

TheRevva
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:30 am

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:49 am

Jim Manley wrote:
Pithagoros wrote:Personally I think that the lack of a parallel port is the biggest mistake with the Pi Zer0 design, without a centronics interface, how am I supposed to drive my daisywheels and band printers?

Oh, and it's also going to be a right royal pain to get the Zer0 onto my token ring network.

And I was hoping to reuse my 16K ZX81 Ram Pack, looks like that's a non-starter too.

All in all it looks like it's going to be a disappointing Christmas this year.
OMG, I'm LMFAO, and now I can't stop crying! That is the FUNNIEST thing I have seen here in ... forever! :lol:
Firstly, this is my first post on this forum... <Gulp>
Secondly, I fully recognize that I'm replaying to a somewhat OLD (deceased?) post... I only FOUND this old post while I was 'searching' through the forum for 'Centronics'.
Nevertheless, _some_ of you might find the following mildly amusing...

I'm NOT trying to interface my old Star dot-matrix parallel printers. In fact my primary purpose for the Pi is to actually get RID of them!
The (ancient!) PC in question talks to 3 separate parallel printers and it's getting difficult to maintain them. I cannot easily just upgrade the PC and printers because there's a pair of HIGHLY custom 8-bit ISA cards that are the whole purpose. (Wait for it... They're built using wire-wrap technology!).
Furthermore, the PC isn't Microsoft-WIndows or even some version of MSDOS. It's Concurrent DOS (a forerunner of DRDOS)
What I'm intending is to allow an RPI to totally 'replace' the physical parallel printer. Any parallel data 'print'-ed to it can then be displayed on screen, sent out to some device on the LAN, or even sent out to a USB-attached printer.
Reading the Centronics input would be pretty easy using an Arduino (eg: Mega), but it's not so easy to hook a screen or LAN to it as it is with an RPI!
However, reading the Centronics input on an RPI isn't exactly childs play. Admittedly, the actually connectivity to GPIO pins is easy enough via a pair of 74LVC4245 level shifters to handle the 5V<->3V3 difference. My main concern is that the Centronics strobe pulse can be as short as 0.5uS. Also, I want the port to be as FAST as possible so I want to alleviate the bulk of the interrupt latency issues I'd encounter. In other words, I'm considering rolling my own 'centronics-device' kernel module.
Anybody that's not ROFL by this point must be almost as insane as I am!

Perhaps the most hilarious (insane?) aspect is that I was actually searching here to see if anyone had already done something like this...
Perhaps it's time for me to dig out my Signetics 2650 box to see if it can be networked to my Altair 8800? (It was too hard using the 4-bit 4004 due to the higher VCC rail. Or perhaps it's just that my 4001 programmer isn't working properly?)

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 17206
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:51 am

How about using an Arduino as an interface to the Pi? It could read the Centronics data and send it over USB or serial port.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 12698
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:58 pm

I think you can still buy small, networked, print servers that will handle Centronics parallel. I used to have one that would handle...three printers.

User avatar
davidcoton
Posts: 5052
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:37 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:02 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:I think you can still buy small, networked, print servers that will handle Centronics parallel. I used to have one that would handle...three printers.
TheRevva wrote: I'm NOT trying to interface my old Star dot-matrix parallel printers.
The problem is to take data FROM a PC Centronics port and send it TO a different, modern printer by USB or network.

Edit:speeling
Last edited by davidcoton on Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Signature retired


User avatar
CarlRJ
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:00 am
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:47 pm

TheRevva wrote:Firstly, this is my first post on this forum... <Gulp>
Secondly, I fully recognize that I'm replaying to a somewhat OLD (deceased?) post... I only FOUND this old post while I was 'searching' through the forum for 'Centronics'.
Nevertheless, _some_ of you might find the following mildly amusing...
Thread Necromancy is a dark art that should not be practiced except in exceptional cases. In this case, you're replying to a years-old thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with your topic, merely because it contained, somewhere in its seven pages, a joke that referenced a keyword your topic. The thread title talks about the Pi Zero and ethernet, you're asking about parallel interfaces. You and the rest of the forum would be better served by starting a fresh thread about parallel interfaces on the Pi (in which case someone who has already travelled that path might see your subject and reply), rather than here, where it'll be seen mostly accidentally by people interested in ethernet on the Pi Zero.

That being said... as rpdom mentioned, a good approach would be to have an Arduino handle reading the actual parallel data pins - it excels at such tasks and folks have already written code to interpret the incoming data - then send the data over USB to a Pi, which can handle any higher-level logic and then send the data across the network. You could potentially even have one Arduino dedicated to each of the Centronics ports, all feeding to one of the B-variant Pi's (B+, 2B, or 3B) that have 4 USB ports. (I have a setup with some specialized weather station hardware running via an Arduino, which relays the raw results to a Pi over USB, and the Pi massages the data into human readable form and publishes it to an MQTT server over WiFi - this kind of thing works quite well.)

User avatar
startrek.steve
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:19 pm

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:08 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
morphy_richards wrote:One thing I always wonder about, does ethernet really need such big bulky rubbish plugs? 8
Blame the folks who hijacked their AT&T telephone wiring to use for their ethernet network. If you think RJ45 is bulky you should look at BNC connectors and co-ax cables that were used for 10base2. 10baseT was a vast improvement on that.
Hmm.. like the qwerty keyboard, it seems we are stuck with it..
At least we've dumped rs232, db25 printer ports, nine pin serial, IRQ's, DMA's, ps2 sockets and floppy drive connections

Steve
Pi 2 running LibreElec Krypton, Pi 2 running Wheezy Desktop, Pi 1 headless Wheezy, downloading Radio, Pi 1 running Picore headless Media Server, Pi Zero to be an Old Time Radio Project. Pi 3 testing. Pi Zero W downloading Radio shows headless.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 12698
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:35 pm

startrek.steve wrote: Hmm.. like the qwerty keyboard, it seems we are stuck with it..
At least in the US, that *almost* got changed. Just prior to WW2 the US government was looking at switching to Dvorak keyboards. The we got into the war and the Feds needed all the typewriters they could get their hands on, and what was available were QWERY.
At least we've dumped rs232, db25 printer ports, nine pin serial, IRQ's, DMA's, ps2 sockets and floppy drive connections
26-pin Centronics parallel. IDE. DIN 5 (for which the PS/2 miniDIN was an improvement). FYI...RS-232 doesn't actually specify a connector and can be implemented with as few as 3 wires.

S0litaire
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Contact: ICQ Skype Twitter

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:28 pm

here's a "poop-in-bag-light-it-throw-it-in-to-the-thread" kinda thought...

re-purpose a Micro USB socket as a network connector. It's small enough to fit in place of the WiFi receiver and not add to much to costs...

Use 4 of the 5 Micro-USB pins for transmit + recieve (10/100 only need wires 1,2,3,6)
Then Order up a Cargo boat full of RJ45 to Micro-USB adapters cheaply.
or wire them yourselves from a cheap £1 USB charger + a normal network cable... ;)

*Runs away to hide from the crowd of pitchforks wielding locals*
--
Laters

Bill "Solitaire" C

Anáil nathrach, ortha bhas betha, do cheol déanta

gregeric
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:08 am

Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:54 pm

You can achieve that already: tether your Zero in gadget mode to a dinky TP-Link WR703 running OpenWRT. You'll gain network access through the WR703's WiFi or ethernet socket, your choice.

Return to “General discussion”