K3z1
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Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:55 pm

Hi, i've been searching for ages for a cheap arm board to use as an headless server, without all the unneccessary stuff that the raspberry pi & competitors have, first the CHIP kickstarter project came out, and now the raspberry zero board, and both are missing the only and most important thing.

Why it doesn't have ethernet? A less-than-1€ usb-ethernet IC was too much? Now it's useless, it's only a toy.

I know that external usb-ethernet adapters exists, and i have one, but i don't see the point in making such a small device when you need 2X the cost and the mess to make it work properly with external stuff. For now it's an useless version of arduino.

Is an ethernet version of the Zero planned? I'll buy it the second it'll come out, and a lot of people will to that too, just look at the comments on tech sites.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:41 pm

It's called the B+. :roll:
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K3z1
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:51 pm

K3z1 wrote:without all the unneccessary stuff that the raspberry pi & competitors have
Do I have to point out the price difference between the B+ and the Zero?

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:09 pm

Well, if you want stuff you have to pay for it.

That 2Euro USB/eth chip needs a connector, and board space. Before you know it you are back where you started.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:17 pm

K3z1 wrote:
K3z1 wrote:without all the unneccessary stuff that the raspberry pi & competitors have
Do I have to point out the price difference between the B+ and the Zero?
A RPi B+ is only £16.00 + Taxes

Can you find anything cheaper :?:
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:25 pm

Heater wrote:Well, if you want stuff you have to pay for it.

That 2Euro USB/eth chip needs a connector, and board space. Before you know it you are back where you started.
I see usb to ethernet adapters on ebay between 2 and 3 dollars, and they ship with the ic, the board, an ethernet connector, an usb connector, a led, and the plastic case, plus shipping.
I'm not an electrical engineer, but i think that it will be surely cheaper to have this embedded in the board, and it would be more useful for a lot of people, because if you attach an ethernet adapter you can't use a mouse, and it defeats the purpose of having the hdmi connector, and if you hook up and usb hub to have both things then there's no point in buying the Zero at all...

The zero could've had a great value at 6-7$ with internet capabilities

fruitoftheloom wrote: A RPi B+ is only £16.00 + Taxes

Can you find anything cheaper :?:
I can find the RPi Zero at £4 :D

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:31 pm

K3z1 wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote: A RPi B+ is only £16.00 + Taxes

Can you find anything cheaper :?:
I can find the RPi Zero at £4 :D
Not a comparision as it does not have Ethernet, can you find any other SBC's with Ethernet under $15 ?

Actually yours is the first post since 7.00am this morning requesting a Zero with Ethernet.....
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:32 pm

K3z1 wrote:Why it doesn't have ethernet? A less-than-1€ usb-ethernet IC was too much? Now it's useless, it's only a toy.
Personally I haven't used ethernet for ages, to me it is something like floppy disc. I am very happy there is not such bulky thing that would only add cost for me. And since the one on bigger Pis is usb based anyway, you can easily add it and end with exactly the same thing without rising cost and size for others. Useless toy? Not at all.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:40 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote: Not a comparision as it does not have Ethernet, can you find any other SBC's with Ethernet under $15 ?

Actually yours is the first post since 7.00am this morning requesting a Zero with Ethernet.....
I can find the Zero with a 3$ ethernet adapter, that will happen to be slower and less optimized than an on-board one.

fanoush wrote: Personally I haven't used ethernet for ages, to me it is something like floppy disc. I am very happy there is not such bulky thing that would only add cost for me. And since the one on bigger Pis is usb based anyway, you can easily add it and end with exactly the same thing without rising cost and size for others. Useless toy? Not at all.
Wow, call a gigabit network a bulky thing like floppy disk, set up a server in the wifi then...

Non-ethernet users are a niche, this zero thing is only useful to set up emulators and things like that, and you can't even update them. In fact they ship it with an external ethernet adapter in some places, because it's clearly lacking this feature.

This is a paperweight for almost everyone.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:44 pm

K3z1 wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote: Not a comparision as it does not have Ethernet, can you find any other SBC's with Ethernet under $15 ?

Actually yours is the first post since 7.00am this morning requesting a Zero with Ethernet.....
I can find the Zero with a 3$ ethernet adapter, that will happen to be slower and less optimized than an on-board one.

fanoush wrote: Personally I haven't used ethernet for ages, to me it is something like floppy disc. I am very happy there is not such bulky thing that would only add cost for me. And since the one on bigger Pis is usb based anyway, you can easily add it and end with exactly the same thing without rising cost and size for others. Useless toy? Not at all.
Wow, call a gigabit network a bulky thing like floppy disk, set up a server in the wifi then...

Non-ethernet users are a niche, this zero thing is only useful to set up emulators and things like that, and you can't even update them. In fact they ship it with an external ethernet adapter in some places, because it's clearly lacking this feature.

This is a paperweight for almost everyone.
Strabge they completely sold all the stock they had for today's release....


Thank you for passing by, hope you find a suitable product at under $10.00 sometime soon, be interesting if you could post back with a link :D
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:47 pm

K3z1 wrote: This is a paperweight for almost everyone.
Balderdash and poppycock (to borrow from Fruity).

The PiZero is the most exciting computer I've ever seen in 35 years of playing with the rotten things. With a USB OTG cable (or dongle) it becomes a good substitute for an A+ or any of the original RPi1B machines.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:49 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
K3z1 wrote: This is a paperweight for almost everyone.
Balderdash and poppycock (to borrow from Fruity).

The PiZero is the most exciting computer I've ever seen in 35 years of playing with the rotten things. With a USB OTG cable (or dongle) it becomes a good substitute for an A+ or any of the original RPi1B machines.
+1000%
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:55 pm

K3z1 wrote:This is a paperweight for almost everyone.
It is only 9g, too light for that ;-)

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:58 pm

A lot of requirements are simply this:

1) Interface to the real world - The GPIO pins, inc UART, SPI, PWM etc.

2) Compute power - The SoC

3) Communications - Opps, there isn't any.

Clearly 3) can be fixed with a 2 dollar WIFI dongle, but dammit we need the cost and space of an adapter because it has the wrong USB connector.

All is not lost though, I will no doubt end up bolting ZigBee or LoRa wireless communications on to a Zero anyway.

Clearly the Zero was not designed to address these requirements. It was designed to be a cheap computer to learn on, as Eben says in the launch video.

It's amazing for that, well done everyone involved.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:59 pm

One thing I always wonder about, does ethernet really need such big bulky rubbish plugs? 8 connections which probably need only 10mm x 3mm and a whole load of plastic that doesn't really do very much and a silly flappy easily breakable clip thing... I've probably seen hundreds of cables chucked because of that...

Surely someone can make their fortune inventing a simple, backward compatible better, smaller plug.

And just to avoid being completely off topic, such an invention could be a perfect pi zero project.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:06 pm

At first, I balked at the lack of an ethernet connection too, since I always run headless.
But as others have said, it's a bulky connector and there's always wireless.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:22 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:Not a comparision as it does not have Ethernet, can you find any other SBC's with Ethernet under $15 ?
There is the ESP8266.
Actually yours is the first post since 7.00am this morning requesting a Zero with Ethernet.....
Most people need a way to get data into and out of their system and ethernet and/or wifi seems logical. Using the USB in this way has its limitations.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:26 pm

morphy_richards wrote:One thing I always wonder about, does ethernet really need such big bulky rubbish plugs? 8
Blame the folks who hijacked their AT&T telephone wiring to use for their ethernet network. If you think RJ45 is bulky you should look at BNC connectors and co-ax cables that were used for 10base2. 10baseT was a vast improvement on that.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:26 pm

morphy_richards wrote:Surely someone can make their fortune inventing a simple, backward compatible better, smaller plug.
No one seems to have a plug splitter that makes available 4 wires for one network and 4 wires for another so you could use one network cable for two NICs. So there's room for a lot still.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:31 pm

Those old coax ethernet cables were brilliant. Once plugged in they stayed plugged in. They didn't have those silly flappy plastic latch things that always break off making the cable useless. You did not need any hubs or switches to chain up a room of PCs. No wall wart power supplies either.

Luckily we have real ether net now, wireless.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:38 pm

It's amazing (not in a good way) that whenever something great is achieved, someone comes along and urinates all over it. :x

If you want ethernet, you could add it using a $3 SPI adaptor on the GPIO. I've seen threads about it.

But you're completely missing the point.

The Pi Zero is about getting the price down as much as it can possibly be reduced. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT. So there is nothing on that board that doesn't have to be there. If you add a bulkier connector to the design. EVERYONE has to pay for it when they don't need to.

Of course, don't forget you can now ask Farnell to design you a Pi to your custom specs. The only snag is, you'll need to order at least 5000 of them (and they won't be $5 each either).
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:42 pm

Wireless as good as it is, still not as good as wired (he says while streaming 4OD from router to laptop to router to chromecast on lowest quality setting and wishing you could still watch 4OD on wired rasbmc/kodi pi)

Ps. Just saw alexeames new post. Pi zero is really really really great. We are moaning that wired ethernet hardware is substandard in comparison.

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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:50 pm

morphy_richards wrote:Wireless as good as it is, still not as good as wired (he says while streaming 4OD from router to laptop to router to chromecast on lowest quality setting and wishing you could still watch 4OD on wired rasbmc/kodi pi)

Ps. Just saw alexeames new post. Pi zero is really really really great. We are moaning that wired ethernet hardware is substandard in comparison.
Actually I prefer ethernet over wireless myself when I have the choice.
My comments were directed at the OP.
The point is you don't get a choice when you buy the cheapest computer in the world.
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:54 pm

alexeames wrote:It's amazing (not in a good way) that whenever something great is achieved, someone comes along and urinates all over it. :x

If you want ethernet, you could add it using a $3 SPI adaptor on the GPIO. I've seen threads about it.

But you're completely missing the point.

The Pi Zero is about getting the price down as much as it can possibly be reduced. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT. So there is nothing on that board that doesn't have to be there. If you add a bulkier connector to the design. EVERYONE has to pay for it when they don't need to.

Of course, don't forget you can now ask Farnell to design you a Pi to your custom specs. The only snag is, you'll need to order at least 5000 of them (and they won't be $5 each either).
John Lydgate
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Re: Raspberry pi zero equivalent with Ethernet

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:56 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
alexeames wrote:It's amazing (not in a good way) that whenever something great is achieved, someone comes along and urinates all over it. :x

If you want ethernet, you could add it using a $3 SPI adaptor on the GPIO. I've seen threads about it.

But you're completely missing the point.

The Pi Zero is about getting the price down as much as it can possibly be reduced. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT. So there is nothing on that board that doesn't have to be there. If you add a bulkier connector to the design. EVERYONE has to pay for it when they don't need to.

Of course, don't forget you can now ask Farnell to design you a Pi to your custom specs. The only snag is, you'll need to order at least 5000 of them (and they won't be $5 each either).
John Lydgate
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”
My version is that "you can't please ALL of the people ANY of the time", so just get on with doing your best and sod 'em :)
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