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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:19 pm

Heater wrote:The Zero had a normal sized USB connector to accept all those tiny, 2 dollar, USB WIFI dongles and memory sticks etc.
Regain the cost, and space, of that by dropping the annoying USB power connector.
They say that people *still* are price barred from having a computer, so they are lowering the cost of the pi from $35 to $5. But this isn't what is price barring people, it's the fact that they either have to use an unacceptable CRT TV for a screen or an HDMI LCD that they don't own. The billions of legacy VGA monitors, both CRT and LCD, that cannot be used on seemingly any SoC board is just enormous.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:40 pm

You can use a CRT. That's what those two points marked TV are for.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:41 pm

stderr wrote:
Heater wrote:The Zero had a normal sized USB connector to accept all those tiny, 2 dollar, USB WIFI dongles and memory sticks etc.
Regain the cost, and space, of that by dropping the annoying USB power connector.
They say that people *still* are price barred from having a computer, so they are lowering the cost of the pi from $35 to $5. But this isn't what is price barring people, it's the fact that they either have to use an unacceptable CRT TV for a screen or an HDMI LCD that they don't own. The billions of legacy VGA monitors, both CRT and LCD, that cannot be used on seemingly any SoC board is just enormous.
Well you know they allow people to design and build their own, show us your £4 computer.

P.s Zero can power VGA from the IO pins and a few resistors but then that would require you to do something instead of pouring scorn on an amazing feat.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:48 pm

stderr wrote:
Heater wrote: > What is slow is all the crude that major distributions seem to include no matter what you do.
>
I minimal install of Raspbian or Debian is not so huge.
I was thinking of when I installed Ubuntu Core and then figured I'd add Firefox. Boom!
If you install program A that needs libraries X, Y, Z to work then that is what you get. No way around that is there? It's up to you what you install.
Does it really need those libraries and other programs? How much is added to Tiny Core to add in Firefox? How much is added using apt-get?
This has nothing to do with speed though. Even if the default SD card image contains a window system, a desktop, and a pile of crap you don't need, mathematica, scratch etc, that does not mean it's in use at run time. It's only wasting space on your SD. Again it's up to you what you run and how much priority you give it.
I think you'll find that things are often running, and things that you don't want to run. Why is Apache running? I didn't install Apache!
Don't forget, there is always "apt-get remove whateverJunkPackage"
Will removing something take out the system? I changed the hardware that Linux was running on and it wanted to remove the Nvidia stuff. Fine intention, but it kept blowing up about libc for some reason. Well, I could purge libc, but if I did, it claimed, there would be trouble. I bet. But, of course, I don't want to remove libc, I want to get rid of the Nvidia drives because this system doesn't have an Nvidia card in it!
Set the configuration to not install recommended or suggested packages, only required packages. http://askubuntu.com/questions/179060/h ... d-packages

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:56 pm

liz wrote:You can use a CRT. That's what those two points marked TV are for.
Hey, I had a ZX-81, I *know* I don't want to write code on a TV. But the RPi do work fine on TVs for video and I'm doing that. I'm just making the point that the blocker right now on price is clearly that most people have access to way more probably free VGA monitors than HDMI ones. That's certainly true now that there's a pi for $5.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:01 pm

liz wrote:No, it's not limited edition or a limited run. They may be referring to the fact that we don't have an infinite number in stock at the moment!
Pimoroni are referring to the pi zero as limited edition in the page header,
Pi Zero: limited edition, limited stock, limited price
and there's also this from raspitv:

http://raspi.tv/2015/raspberry-pi-zero- ... i-magazine
It’s A Special Edition Model

The Raspberry Pi Zero is a special edition model, so nothing (long-term availability, price stability, feature set or form factor) is guaranteed past the initial production run(s). However, if it’s popular enough, it’s quite possible that more will be made.

It might not be wise to bet your livelihood on developing a ‘Pi Zero-only’ add-on though.
Last edited by mikerr on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:03 pm

stderr,

OK, you got me there. I have no idea about Ubuntu. I gave up Ubuntu as an unstable and broken version of Debian ages ago. Still, if you want Firefox you need window system and a ton of other stuff. Of course boom! That does not mean Linux is slow.

Also I have no idea about Tiny Core, never heard of it. You will have to tell me how much smaller an install of Firefox on Tiny Core is than on Debian.

Debian does not have Firefox. I always install it from the Firefox web site. Never at all on the Pi, using the Pi as a browser does not work for me.

Apache only runs on my systems if I install it. It is a choice at install time.

I'm just now installing raspbian-jessie-lite to so I can catch up with your issues here.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:10 pm

RichardUK wrote:Well you know they allow people to design and build their own, show us your £4 computer.
You are flaming me and I'm right? I didn't claim to have a rival £4 computer and I didn't claim to know how they BOMed theirs either. The fact that they built it is enough.
P.s Zero can power VGA from the IO pins and a few resistors but then that would require you to do something instead of pouring scorn on an amazing feat.
Scorn? Good grief, as it sits, I think I'll buy ten of the Pi Zeros. They really do change the game for a lot of stuff. But talking about issues that are relevant isn't attacking, it is true that there are a ton of VGA monitors rotting away doing nothing.

Reality is that nothing so far at least is perfect and there is room for more than just these boards. Pushing down on microcontrollers, I think, is a really good thing.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:45 pm

I have a couple of questions about this:
  1. As I understand it, there is only one USB connection - as is the case with the A models - so presumably most people will want to connect it to a hub in order to connect mouse & keyboard. Furthermore, the connector on the board is not the standard USB connector that we are all used to; it is something weird (no insult intended by that, but just not what people are used to), specifically, it is an OTG connector. So, presumably, most people are going to want either an OTG to standard USB (A) adapter, or, better, a hub with OTG input and standard USB (A) outputs (Note to pedants: I've caught flack on this board in the past for referring to USB connections as "inputs" and "outputs", but (hopefully) you know what I mean...).

    Can anyone recommend such a hub?

    Note, BTW, that for me personally, I could probably get by without such a hub, because I tend to use mouse/keyboard combos - that only require a single USB connection to the computer. Either in the form of a combo unit or a keyboard with a built-in hub, allowing me to plug a mouse into the keyboard. Both of these solutions have worked fine on Raspberry Pis. So, for me personally, I would just need an OTG to USB A adapter.
  2. To the poster who was recommending the C.H.I.P. over the Rpi Zero: Has the C.H.I.P. vapor condensed yet? I.e., is it actually available now, at the $9 price? If so, can you say more about what you actually do (and do not) get in the basic package for the nine bucks? Thanks.

    BTW, I tend to agree with you that the C.H.I.P. sounds like a better buy, but of course what you'd be giving up is the RPi support, which is clearly second-to-none.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:48 pm

JS the ZERO connectors are common on Tablets, the Swag Store can even sell you a kit if you want them:

http://swag.raspberrypi.org/collections ... ero-cables
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:52 pm

However, if it’s popular enough, it’s quite possible that more will be made.
Today's proved it's popular enough. We're definitely continuing to make them for as long as you want them.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:40 pm

liz wrote:
However, if it’s popular enough, it’s quite possible that more will be made.
Today's proved it's popular enough. We're definitely continuing to make them for as long as you want them.
As long as price stays below 10 USD , I'm in :D - I have already few ideas :D :D

Will be the schematics available? Or at least test points description? I don't like the idea of sticking out a big microUSB plug out of board that is not much bigger than the plug itself. I don't see any "goldpin pads" where USB is available - so I suppose, I can solder two thin wires to test-points (which ones?) , and a breadboard with usb hub (e.g.: LAN9514 :D )...
As for powering, I take, that it can be done via GPIO header as in bigger brothers (A+/B+/Pi2)?

When we can expect the Pi0 to be available again?

Ps. If you would consider of designing something similar to Pi0 (rev2 or with more horse power :D ) then please add two goldpin header pads with usb D+ & D- :D

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:49 pm

saper_2 wrote:
When we can expect the Pi0 to be available again?
The next run comes off the line some time next week.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:20 pm

$5 for a computer wow! :shock: Who would have thought? Was it a smart idea? Big question is how much profit can a corporation make from a $5 computer?
:twisted:

I'll definitely buy my first Magpi! :mrgreen:
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:31 pm

This is so cool! Only one problem and maybe it was covered and I missed it. But I see some of your US distributors seem to be just selling bundles for $50 or $60? They do not have just the boards listed for sale? Did they just throw them in a pack to jack up the price of the add-ons? Not trying to be negative. Like I said my have missed something.

Thanks!

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:35 pm

expandables wrote:$5 for a computer wow! :shock: Who would have thought? Was it a smart idea? Big question is how much profit can a corporation make from a $5 computer?
:twisted:

I'll definitely buy my first Magpi! :mrgreen:
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:37 pm

GeekEdition wrote:This is so cool! Only one problem and maybe it was covered and I missed it. But I see some of your US distributors seem to be just selling bundles for $50 or $60? They do not have just the boards listed for sale? Did they just throw them in a pack to jack up the price of the add-ons? Not trying to be negative. Like I said my have missed something.

Thanks!
http://swag.raspberrypi.org/collections ... ts/pi-zero

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-17098
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:07 am

No board only there either. So maybe not $50 but bottom line basically $30-$40 for this "$5" board for us here in the USA. And no chance we will ever see that magazine with piggy people hacker grabbing all issues off the shelf. $100 plus on Ebay. I was very disappointed to find it took a couple years before the original models even approached the advertised price. Hopefully it will take less time for this one to even drop below $10.

I must say the feature list is as close to perfect as expected.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:44 am

To be honest, the Zero is the first successive Pi model that I won't be buying, but that's because I always thought the 'A' with just one USB port was too crippled, and this is essentially a mini 'A'.

Like the original Pis it's going to need some additional hardware to make it really usable, such as a USB hub and / or some converter cables so that it can connect to the vast majority of USB devices which have standard sized connectors, the cost of all of which will immediately cancel out some of the advantages of being able to make it so cheap in the first place.

The ideal official companion for one of these would be an integrated Keyboard / Mousepad and Wi-Fi dongle unit connected to the Zero by a single cable and plug, but of course the cost of that specially designed item would undoubtedly push it well past the cost of a standard Pi with a separate, but standard, keyboard, mouse and WiFi dongle.

If you can really use this minimalist Pi for your chosen application as it comes out of the box then that's great, but for me the Pi 2 is a much, much better value for money all-rounder.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:49 am

That's why we have different products. I've come up with the idea of using the Zero as a permanent attachment to my new breadboard and develop programs on my computer and then send it to the Pi which will be mounted directly on a Pi cobbler with a 90 degree angle header. I'm just starting with the GPIO (done all software before that) so it should be very useful.

But no one is pressuring you into buying it. That's why the Foundation has so many different models.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:50 am

SiriusHardware wrote:To be honest, the Zero is the first successive Pi model that I won't be buying, but that's because I always thought the 'A' with just one USB port was too crippled, and this is essentially a mini 'A'.

Like the original Pis it's going to need some additional hardware to make it really usable, such as a USB hub and / or some converter cables so that it can connect to the vast majority of USB devices which have standard sized connectors, the cost of all of which will immediately cancel out some of the advantages of being able to make it so cheap in the first place.

The ideal official companion for one of these would be an integrated Keyboard / Mousepad and Wi-Fi dongle unit connected to the Zero by a single cable and plug, but of course the cost of that specially designed item would undoubtedly push it well past the cost of a standard Pi with a separate, but standard, keyboard, mouse and WiFi dongle.

If you can really use this minimalist Pi for your chosen application as it comes out of the box then that's great, but for me the Pi 2 is a much, much better value for money all-rounder.
Buy the MagPi and you get a free Pi zero!
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:26 am

Lost my old account so this new one will have to do :v

Given that the Zero uses the same BCM2835 processor as the RPi1, would getting analog audio be a simple matter of taking the pins out from the processor? I know the other method is to use the GPIO pins for PWM+a adapter but I'd prefer to not use professional grade audio hardware to play robot noises :roll: .

I don't see any documentation for the Zero up yet, so I'm just shooting in the dark here.
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:55 am

Liz, which stores carry Mag Pi in the US? I know I've seen in various stores but I can't remember which and the Mag Pi site doesn't list US stores.
Last edited by oso2k on Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:46 am

Still can't wrap my head around the fact that you guys were able to do this for just $5, at this point, just curious btw, are you guys making any profit on the pi zero?
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Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:36 am

dom wrote:
hippy wrote:I may be wrong but I thought the audio PWM could be routed to GPIO18 and GPIO19 which are both present on the 40-way allowing stereo with a simple RC circuit.
Yes, I think you are correct. Set the correct ALT modes for the GPIO pins and (unfiltered) audio should come out.
Thanks for this! I will look into it; if this works (in Python), it will solve the problem.

I did take a quick look at a chart that shows Alt 5 puts PWM0 and 1 on pins 18 and 19, but it also implies that a lot of the other GPIO functions are then not supported - but I'll have to try it out over the weekend.

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