Lance Constable Carrot
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:40 pm

Replacing the ethernet connector with a 2 USB connector it would be possible to plug a Wifi USB card, a mouse, a keyboard and we would have 1 free USB for example to connect a printer or a webcam. Wifi USB cards are cheap and Wifi is also very common in Europe schools.

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Montekuri
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:44 pm

How about a USB hub to connect everything you need and preserve the extra connections?

Lance Constable Carrot
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:15 pm

Nice idea, but depending on the device it would be neccesary to use a powered USB hub, so in that case you could get your table with two extra wires. If you plug a Wifi card you can save the Ethernet wire, so you have the mouse and the keyboard wires, and a free USB connector to plug for example a USB memory key, a webcam, a printer...
I think it's important to have only a few wires over the table to keep it neat.

Ryanroll
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:14 pm

Quote from Lance Constable Carrot on November 4, 2011, 20:15
Nice idea, but depending on the device it would be neccesary to use a powered USB hub, so in that case you could get your table with two extra wires. If you plug a Wifi card you can save the Ethernet wire, so you have the mouse and the keyboard wires, and a free USB connector to plug for example a USB memory key, a webcam, a printer...
I think it's important to have only a few wires over the table to keep it neat.


I totaly agree with that, having such a tiny computer with a complete mess of wires all arount it !

i also agree with a 4 usb future C revision so those who want ethernet can buy an ethernet-usb adapter, and those who want wifi can buy a usb dongle.

bnolsen
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:26 am

discussed before, it would require a new pcb design to handle the extra traces. Won't happen for quite a few batches if it even would happen.

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Jessie
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:17 am

May be someone will design a nice hub that tucks under the R-Pi so that it looks integrated. Or possibly a case with a bult in powered hub?

morten
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:50 am

Quote from Ryanroll on November 4, 2011, 21:14
I totaly agree with that, having such a tiny computer with a complete mess of wires all arount it !

i also agree with a 4 usb future C revision so those who want ethernet can buy an ethernet-usb adapter, and those who want wifi can buy a usb dongle.

I totally disagree. The reason I'm looking forward to the Rasberry Pie is due to USB AND Ethernet on the same PCB. I have no need for so many USB ports, but I'd hate to have an ethernet dongle to be taped on to my hardware.

So, In your own words:
so those who want ethernet more usb ports can buy a ethernet-usb adapter, and those who want wifi can buy a usb dongle. USB hub :)

I suppose it comes down to different people having different needs and one board can fulfill them all. I'm just voting against removing the ethernet in favor of more USB ports.

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Montekuri
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:15 am

Quote from Lance Constable Carrot on November 4, 2011, 20:15
Nice idea, but depending on the device it would be neccesary to use a powered USB hub...
If a device need a powered USB hub, it will need whenever it has 2 or 4 usb ports on R-Pi.

jamesh
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:19 am

You could just buy a Model A - no ethernet on that. You would need a hub though.
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abishur
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:37 pm

One thing I've been thinking about is a while back a very cleaver forum poster (I fear I forgotten his/her name or else I'd give them props for this) took a beagleboard (which has the same ports in every direction thing going on like the r-pi) did a custom case where they routed all the ports to a single edge using extension cables. It increase the footprint slightly but looked stunning.

I mention this because if one were to do a case like this, it would be easy enough to add a slim line powered USB hub inside a custom case! The one power adapter would split inside the case to go to the r-pi and the hub.

The truly nice thing about this, is for those who can afford the extra ports, they could afford the hub *and* it keep the whole thing portable while having the added benefit of reducing the r-pi to a single edge (or two if you want to keep it compact). While at the same time it doesn't spread the cost of additional USB ports on the board to those who only need one or two ports :)
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kendrick
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:53 am

adding to that no one has mentioned power. if the soc only has 1 hub and your just adding traces to get an extra stet of ports you still live with 500mw of juice total

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Jessie
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:00 am

Quote from kendrick on November 11, 2011, 03:53
adding to that no one has mentioned power. if the soc only has 1 hub and your just adding traces to get an extra stet of ports you still live with 500mw of juice total

If you want more power you buy a powered hub then 500 mw can be supplied to each port. Plus 500 mw really isn't that much of an issue unless you are trying to power a small laptop hard drive with USB power alone.

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abishur
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:05 am

From what we've been told, the power for the ports actually skips the SoC and comes straight from the PSU (but after the voltage protection) so the limiting factor is actually the max current allowed by the self resetting fuse :)
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sanyigz
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:38 pm

For those who want to put ethernet and everything to usb: usb eats cpu at data transfer, much more cpu than the native interfaces...

obarthelemy
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:23 pm

ethernet on the model B is already going though USB. It's more of a matter of having 4 USB ports to do whatever you want, vs having 2 USB and 1 Ethernet-through-USB fixed port.

matt_heys
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:00 pm

Since one of the markets is the developing world, I think an integrated network adapter added by a charity making the slimmest of margins on the device might be more cost effective. It might not be easy to purchase wifi adapters or routers or possibly even internet, but with a cross over cable they could link two machines together to learn basic networking.

Personally I think they are fine as they are and will be great for my purposes, maybe a clever after market case would be a great idea, especially one where a single power supply powers both the hub and RPi

kme
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:12 pm

Quote from sanyigz on November 12, 2011, 20:38
For those who want to put ethernet and everything to usb: usb eats cpu at data transfer, much more cpu than the native interfaces...And what "native interface" would that be? BCM 2835 has ONE bus and that's a USB2 bus. You have 480 Mb/s for everything you throw at it.

The current B model use a LAN9512 hub with 2xUSB and 1xLAN. If you want four USB ports the natural choice is to switch to LAN9514 that has 4xUSB and 1xLAN. As you are paying for the LAN capability anyway it would be nuts not to spend the few pence on the physical port. 9512 and 9514 are almost identical: same chip form factor, same number of physical connectors (64), same electrical requirement. 9514 obviously DO have more connected pins and hence requires more traces on the PCB and this could be a show stopper, but I doubt it.

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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:42 am

WHAT?!! No Ethernet port. Wireless is damn crap.

Jasont41
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:47 am

I vote no on usb ports versus an ethernet. I will be setting up a network based entirely of Raspi and a windows 7 pc and an ethernet switch. Without an ethernet port, it would cause me to spend about ten extra dollars per Pi. Not a good idea.

jamesh
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:10 pm

Quote from Josh on November 14, 2011, 04:42
WHAT?!! No Ethernet port. Wireless is damn crap.

Works fine for me. Probably best not to tar all wireless with the same brush.
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kme
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:26 pm

LAN is need to have.
WiFi is nice to have.

Bug fixing headless WiFi-only units is no fun. Not at all.

eric_baird
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:28 pm

LAN vs WiFi: It depends on your application.
A lot of the advantage of having a tiny board is lost when you hook it up with a big thick LAN cable that weighs more than the actual device. RPi is small enough that you can come up with whole new applications for it, based on its tiny size, like ... how about wiring up your backpack with an embedded RPi, Wifi and Internet dongle, so that you have your own portable base-station and networked storage with you wherever you go? So you can buy a cheaper tablet device with less storage and Wifi rather than 3G, and access 3G and all your files via your backpack.

Tablet devices are becoming pretty common, with remote desktop software, an RPi could be programmed and controlled from a mobile phone or maybe even an iPod Touch. Which would be cool ... except those tend to have wifi rather than big chunky LAN connectors.

Wired LAN is probably critical for some existing applications, but for more portable uses, it's Wifi that's critical and wired LAN becomes a bit pointless. So ... two groups of people with different needs.

ProDigit
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:08 pm

Usually the minimum amount of usb slots any device needs to have is 2!
One for keyboard, one for mouse.
It also gives you a failsafe against one slot not working (at times USB slots wear out).

I also am a big fan of getting rid of the LAN, mainly because LAN is a thing of the past, much like dialup!
Now everything is wifi, much like now everything is HD TV's (and 3D for some). Old analog TV is a thing of the past, and I'm happy raspberry has seen this too, and replaced AV/YPbPr cable with HDMI!

I would want to see wifi in this device, perhaps with 1 antenna along the pcb, and another antenna out for when you have your own antenna, and want to improve the signal.

Many of the feats of the Raspberry Pi, resemble old technology thinking, that will become obsolete in 2 years (LAN being one of them, low RAM, and low CPU performance being 2 other of them)!

But I understand to stay within a budget you need to make sacrifices!

ProDigit
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:11 pm

Quote from kme on November 14, 2011, 13:26
LAN is need to have.
WiFi is nice to have.

Bug fixing headless WiFi-only units is no fun. Not at all.

Then bugfix over USB!

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liz
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Re: 4 USB, no ethernet future version of Rasperry PI

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:12 pm

Not at all - old analogue TV is very much not a thing of the past in many low-income homes and in the developing world. It's why we have composite out alongside HDMI.
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