W. H. Heydt
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Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:13 am

I notice that NOOBS 1.4.2 zip file (which I presume includes Raspbian Jessie) at 962MB is a good deal smaller than the zip file for the Raspbian Jessie at 1.3GB. I see that the compressed root tarball in NOOBS is 950MB. Am I missing something? Is NOOBS 1.4.2 still Wheezy or does the NOOBS version of Jessie not have some packages that the image version has?

Inquiring minds, and all that...

Heater
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:38 am

Who cares? Forget the noobs nonsense and just install the Jessie image.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:38 am

I was wondering the same thing. Within the latest NOOBS .zip file, ./os/Raspbian/release_notes.txt and ./os/Raspbian/os.json indicates Jessie, so I am presuming it is the latest and is now Jessie. I haven't had time to install it yet.

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kusti8
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:30 am

I've noticed that NOOBS uses travails compressed with xz, which I assume is more efficient than zip. That's the only guess I can give.
There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:45 pm

Heater wrote:Who cares? Forget the noobs nonsense and just install the Jessie image.
For my own purposes, that's what I do.

However, when I go to the (relatively) local Jam, I take along a USB stick that contains current downloads of OSes, including NOOBS for the uncommon cases where someone needs an SD card built or rebuilt on the spot. It was part of loading the new downloads to the USB stick that I noticed the significant disparity in size.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:46 pm

kusti8 wrote:I've noticed that NOOBS uses travails compressed with xz, which I assume is more efficient than zip. That's the only guess I can give.
While that is *possible*, I wouldn't expect a difference as large as I'm seeing. If that much compression were possible, I would have thought that the xz compression would be done for the image file as well.

amigaholic
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:44 pm

Doesn't the NOOBS image mostly just contain compressed partial-installers, installing the base OS from the compressed image on the card, and then pulling the majority of additional packages from the apt-get repositories during installation?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:17 pm

amigaholic wrote:Doesn't the NOOBS image mostly just contain compressed partial-installers, installing the base OS from the compressed image on the card, and then pulling the majority of additional packages from the apt-get repositories during installation?
For the "full" NOOBS...no. You can do a NOOBS install offline, so it has to have a pretty complete install. NOOBS Lite doesn't have an image at all. It downloads the install image. Thus, neither version of NOOBS does a partial install.

That said, pretty much the first thing one wants to do after any install (following expanding the file system, as needed) is to update and upgrade followed by installing any packages that don't come as a default. For me, that means always installing units, putty and mplayer, then anything needed for that particular Pi.

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blachanc
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:33 pm

Heater wrote:Who cares? Forget the noobs nonsense and just install the Jessie image.
Hum use cases may vary :D
If you are willing to pay for Damaged & lost SD cards, I am willing to follow your advise. ;)

why I use Noobs post
blachanc wrote:
Because of small hands at home that have a tendency to loose anything smaller than a pineapple, or medium size hands that still do not catch that maximum force will not "fix the issue", I do not allow them to manipulate microsd cards.

This is why I love so much the multi-boot capability of NOOBS {Raspian(gcompris)} / {(RASPBMC(KODI/OSMC)}.
I installed noobs and yes it is JESSIE..

Ben
Autism/Asperger syndrome: what is your score on this quiz?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=70191

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:25 pm

blachanc wrote:
Heater wrote:Who cares? Forget the noobs nonsense and just install the Jessie image.
Hum use cases may vary :D
If you are willing to pay for Damaged & lost SD cards, I am willing to follow your advise. ;)

why I use Noobs post
blachanc wrote:
Because of small hands at home that have a tendency to loose anything smaller than a pineapple, or medium size hands that still do not catch that maximum force will not "fix the issue", I do not allow them to manipulate microsd cards.

This is why I love so much the multi-boot capability of NOOBS {Raspian(gcompris)} / {(RASPBMC(KODI/OSMC)}.
I installed noobs and yes it is JESSIE..

Ben
Heh... I have large hands and there is a microSD card somewhere under the rack holding equipment next to my desk. I'll have to disconnect and shut everything down to move it and clean out underneath...as the "shutting down" includes a laser printer and 2 1.5KVA USPes.

For the "small hands", I've set my grandson (aged 7 years) up with a Pi2B in a case with an SD card cover. Takes a screwdriver to get at it. At some point, I will rewrite that system with Jessie, but there is no hurry. Actually, I anticipate migrating all my Pis to Jessie, but to complete the project may well run about 6 months as there is at least one that I'd prefer to use the full migration to make preserving what is on the system now easier on me.

But anyway, point taken that NOOBS *is* useful even for experienced Pi owners (not that *I* was in doubt about that point).

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jojopi
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:52 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:While that is *possible*, I wouldn't expect a difference as large as I'm seeing. If that much compression were possible, I would have thought that the xz compression would be done for the image file as well.
You should expect a big difference when moving from deflate to lzma compression:

Code: Select all

$ stat -c "%10s %n" 2015-09-24-raspbian-jessie.*
1332985725 2015-09-24-raspbian-jessie.zip
4325376000 2015-09-24-raspbian-jessie.img
 944295624 2015-09-24-raspbian-jessie.img.xz
xz is extremely slow to compress, however, and it is much less commonly supported than zip.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Is it bigger on the inside...?

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:25 pm

xz is extremely slow to compress, however, and it is much less commonly supported than zip.
But it does make sense, then, that that would account for the difference in size (.9G vs 1.3G) that the OP observed.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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