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Jim Manley
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:45 am

Hexxeh wrote:
Jim Manley wrote:how much awareness of the Pi is there within your corner of the Plex?
A little, getting people interested enough to get them hacking on improving it is difficult though.
Yeah, I've been getting a lot of "~200 MHz Pentium equivalent ... SINGLE CORE??? Are you nuts? Why bother?" from my fellow bleeding-edgers who sniff at anything slower than 3.9 GHz octo-core with tens of GBs of RAM on 22 nanometer wafer lithographic technology. The mobile folks are much more understanding and impressed, as are those of us who wistfully recall Ye Olde Dayes when men were men and big iron was literally made of barely-cooled smelted iron ore, on prominent display through half of the museum.

Anyone have an idea where we can get a decent-looking Raspberry Pi/Jam banner for nothing that we can hang behind the tables and above everything, to use at this and future events?
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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Lob0426
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:27 am

Spent the other day on a front loader skidding logs. And driving a water truck that fills up to about 70,000 pounds. That will put power into perpective for you. Another perspective for you. Before retirement I made basically $42 an hour. Now I make $8 an hour (from work) and love it! ;)
The BBS that me and my brother built in the early 90's was impressive, then. A Packard Bell 386-20 2MB RAM (used 386MAX extended memory manager) and a Acer 286-20 1MB RAM with 2 CD-ROMS and a whole 207MB of hard disk space with a 14400 internal modem and a 9600 external. Connected together with a Lantastic 2Mb serial network in DOS. Had a number of software CD's that we juggled around. We usually had about 1.2GB or so up in software, plus online games and messages. No Internet up here until 94/95. Used spitfire BBS software. Computers up until that time were pretty much standalone propositions. AOL was pretty big before then, but cost us $6 to $7 an hour as it was all long distance. Ah the good Old days.
Remember the days when you had to carefully manage your memory, because you could not afford $250 to $400 a MB? Or you cleaned out all the Modem files from WIN 3.11 because they ate up 24MB and Hard Drives were $599 for a 125MB.
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brocja01
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:24 pm

Is anyone else having issues logging into chrome? I was hoping to sync bookmarks and stuff but I get an error. Any thoughts?

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Jim Manley
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:17 pm

Yeah, that's all why I'm so jazzed about the Pi - people here in the Valley get so jaded about perfectly usable last-year's stuff and complain when a call drops. That we can run any of Chrome on the Pi at its cost is just flabbergasting. In the 1980s, we used FidoNet to transfer e-mail and files late at night and weekends when long distance rates were lowest, and there were similar tools that allowed piggybacking on various other telecommunications circuits. One of the earliest applications of the TCP/IP protocols was AlohaNet, where packets were exchanged between Hawaiian islands over HF radio. There have been special modems compatible with shipboard HF radios that are used to link afloat computers together and with those ashore - satellite comms are still above even what you paid for long-distance phone calls, so, only highly-compressed business textual data is usually sent over them (except on fat-cat wealthy people's yachts and cruise ships, of course).

It will be interesting to see how hexxeh has crammed Chrome into the memory footprint of the Pi, as I'm having to do that in spades in trying to fit Panda3D and my Pi-finity! game system code into what's left over after the GPU, OS, etc., have had their way with RAM. Every time I think back to the first time I powered up my $439 MITS Altair 8800 and its baseline 256 bytes (no, there's no M or K missing) of RAM, I wonder in awe how we ever got to a $35 Pi with 1080p and 40 million polygons per second, and 24 GFLOPS within my lifetime. When I left college, I bade farewell to my four years of computing, thinking that it would be many years before I might have hands-on access to that level of computing technology again - the Altair was fun, but, I couldn't afford a $1,500 working teletype terminal, so, I only programmed it in binary via the front-panel switches and LEDs (plus, deploying all over the planet in the Navy made hauling a few hundred pounds of teletype equipment a non-starter). Ironically, we used Teletype Model 28 terminals with yellow paper tape and tear-off paper aboard Navy ships until the early 1990s, when DOS PCs finally made it aboard in significant numbers. Then, it was floppy-swappy time and SneakerNet to move our incoming and outgoing messages between Radio Central and all of the admin and operations spaces. They replaced a fleet of copiers that were used to reproduce the torn yellow printouts that we marked up and responded to by hand, and returned to the radiomen to be typed up.

I'm really looking forward to Aura, WebGL, etc., running on the Pi, if it's even feasible. "What hath God wrought?", indeed, Samuel F. B. Morse!
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

Sid Icarus
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:46 pm

Doesnt work for me.
I paste "bash <(curl -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI)" into the terminal and all get is:
curl: option -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI: is unknown
Any suggestions??

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Lob0426
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:55 am

Try typing it in instead of pasting it. Part of it is showing up as a hyperlink and that could be your problem. I typed it in and had no problems. And do not use the quotes.
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lb
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:41 am

Hexxeh, have you found out what slows Chromium down with IPv6 enabled? Chromium implements Happy Eyeballs, so IPv6 should never slow it down, even in case of an incorrect IPv6 configuration.

mudcruzr
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:35 pm

Sid Icarus wrote:Doesnt work for me.
I paste "bash <(curl -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI)" into the terminal and all get is:
curl: option -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI: is unknown
Any suggestions??
Yeah, watch that last character in the URL - it's an uppercase i not a lowercase L, I eventually had to look at the html on hexxeh's blog page to see that, lol

Alan

Sid Icarus
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:09 pm

mudcruzr wrote:
Sid Icarus wrote:Doesnt work for me.
I paste "bash <(curl -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI)" into the terminal and all get is:
curl: option -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI: is unknown
Any suggestions??
Yeah, watch that last character in the URL - it's an uppercase i not a lowercase L, I eventually had to look at the html on hexxeh's blog page to see that, lol

Alan
You Sir, earned my deepest respect. :D

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AndrewS
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:48 am

Sid Icarus wrote:
mudcruzr wrote:Yeah, watch that last character in the URL - it's an uppercase i not a lowercase L, I eventually had to look at the html on hexxeh's blog page to see that, lol
You Sir, earned my deepest respect. :D
You'd think that these URL shorteners would be programmed to deliberately avoid ambiguous characters like I l | 1 o O 0 etc. :(

Hmm, looks a little bit better in 'code' tags:

Code: Select all

bash <(curl -sL http://goo.gl/5vuJI)

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AndrewS
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:01 am

Jim Manley wrote:
Hexxeh wrote:
Jim Manley wrote:how much awareness of the Pi is there within your corner of the Plex?
A little, getting people interested enough to get them hacking on improving it is difficult though.
Yeah, I've been getting a lot of "~200 MHz Pentium equivalent ... SINGLE CORE??? Are you nuts? Why bother?" from my fellow bleeding-edgers who sniff at anything slower than 3.9 GHz octo-core with tens of GBs of RAM on 22 nanometer wafer lithographic technology.
And I guess the "it's only 35 bucks!" factor has less of on impact on people with google-salaries ;)

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cheery
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:36 am

This build is faster than midori, but the browsing experience keeps being sub-par. I thought graphics acceleration would improve it more than it looks at the moment. Maybe it's the low memory that's pushing back.

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AndrewS
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:47 am

cheery wrote:This build is faster than midori, but the browsing experience keeps being sub-par. I thought graphics acceleration would improve it more than it looks at the moment. Maybe it's the low memory that's pushing back.
Is there any indication that this is using hardware acceleration yet?

dom
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:00 pm

cheery wrote:This build is faster than midori, but the browsing experience keeps being sub-par. I thought graphics acceleration would improve it more than it looks at the moment. Maybe it's the low memory that's pushing back.
Midori on Raspbian is significantly faster than this build of Chromium for me. I'm sure Chromium is better on many metrics, and does run pretty well, but it is currently slower to launch, and slower to render web pages than Midori.
Anyone else seeing this build as faster than Midori on Raspbian? What web pages are you testing and what are the page load times?

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cheery
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:49 pm

On slower to launch I can agree too. But browsing experience was faster overall. The responsibility of sites were better.

ren41
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:12 pm

it is a shame - Chromium was much faster than Midori on Squeeze. Midori now loads very quickly but I'm not sure that the real speed and memory issue, for me, is the browser. I still think that (again, on Squeeze at least) xfce was less memory-hungry than lxde. unfortunately I can only get xfce to run if I use slim which I don't want to do. on Rasbian & lxde, the CPU usage still shoots up to 100% at the drop of a hat, and several times on wheezy and on Raspbian the pi has crashed on lxde logout and I've had to pull the plug.

ren

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Lob0426
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:13 am

Chromium opens really slow for me. It browses about the same as midori once opened.
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portets
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:57 am

Yeah, chromium is slower in every way for me, except one. Scrolling down after a page is fully loaded is significantly smoother on chromium vs midori.

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Jim Manley
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:44 am

AndrewS wrote:And I guess the "it's only 35 bucks!" factor has less of on impact on people with google-salaries ;)
Especially when one of their employee perks is a guaranteed, endless supply of hot-and-cold running toys (although I suppose if I were forced to use a ChromeBook, I might not be so motivated by my job ;) ). However, these are hard times at Google - their executives now consider Facebook and even Yahoo a better place to work, for crying out loud! :lol:

Plus, I think folks down the food chain are finally figuring out that they're not all going to get their very own unmarked 757 or 767 (one of my offices overlooked the interior of the NASA Ames hangar they're renting to keep them out of public scrutiny). There are Pi boards in the Plex, though, and more sneaking past the carbohydrate-overloaded Android robots every day (more likely at night, when they're sleeping off their sugar highs :D ).
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

niftyhacking
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:21 am

:P loaded and running. Thanks....!
As for suggestion the -disable-ipv6 is not a bug
but could be solved by a wrapper script or shell
alias. The issue is that ipv6 is not enabled to most
of the world and the ipv6 host lookups take a bit of
time to error out (as they are supposed to).

Stick with the command line hint and life will be good.

PS: this post is from a RaspberryPI runnng chrome.

ckpcw
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:26 pm

ren41 wrote:it is a shame - Chromium was much faster than Midori on Squeeze. Midori now loads very quickly but I'm not sure that the real speed and memory issue, for me, is the browser. I still think that (again, on Squeeze at least) xfce was less memory-hungry than lxde. unfortunately I can only get xfce to run if I use slim which I don't want to do. on Rasbian & lxde, the CPU usage still shoots up to 100% at the drop of a hat, and several times on wheezy and on Raspbian the pi has crashed on lxde logout and I've had to pull the plug.

ren
not sure which magical build of squeeze you were using, or if youre cooling with liquid nitrogen or something, but..
whut?

chromium is dog slow on squeeze - hexxeh's build is leagues faster, but midori is still snappier across the board (of course)

also, the pi's cpu usage jumps to 100% when running apt from the shell with no X running. Hint: it's not because of lxde.

thanks for the build hexxeh, looking forward to where you take chromiumOS, etc

deadlyfingers
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:00 pm

Nice work. But this current Chrome nightly build (22.0.1211.0) cannot run YouTube HTML5 video for some reason, instead asks for Flash Player to be installed. However the Iceweasel browser runs YouTube HTML5 video, although the sound plays ok the video is very choppy. Running Raspbian boot off an SD Card (Class 10).

HTML5 Test Scores (out of 500)
Chrome (nightly build 22.0.1211.0): 382 (+2) points
Iceweasel (10.0.5): 327 (+9) points
Midori (0.4): 299 (+2) points

jeremyckahn
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:08 am

Hexxeh, this is really awesome. Thanks for your hard work on bringing Chromium to the RPi. Is there any chance that you'll publish how you built the custom Chromium binary? Maybe just some tips or pointers? I'm building an HTML 5 game console based on your Chromium builds. I'd love to learn from your source code or any secret sauce that you're using.

Thanks!

ren41
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:27 pm

ckpcw wrote:
ren41 wrote:it is a shame - Chromium was much faster than Midori on Squeeze. Midori now loads very quickly but I'm not sure that the real speed and memory issue, for me, is the browser. I still think that (again, on Squeeze at least) xfce was less memory-hungry than lxde. unfortunately I can only get xfce to run if I use slim which I don't want to do. on Rasbian & lxde, the CPU usage still shoots up to 100% at the drop of a hat, and several times on wheezy and on Raspbian the pi has crashed on lxde logout and I've had to pull the plug.

ren
not sure which magical build of squeeze you were using, or if youre cooling with liquid nitrogen or something, but..
whut?

chromium is dog slow on squeeze - hexxeh's build is leagues faster, but midori is still snappier across the board (of course)

also, the pi's cpu usage jumps to 100% when running apt from the shell with no X running. Hint: it's not because of lxde.

thanks for the build hexxeh, looking forward to where you take chromiumOS, etc
no, it really didn't, and wasn't. I have comparative timings somewhere which I'll try to dig out, although they do relate to day to day ops such as startx-ing into chromium v Midori -which was truly horrendous on Squeeze, especially early on, frequently hitting 100% CPU and dropping the Ethernet connection as a result (documented on the forums frequently) - lxde timings v xfce etc. if there's one fundamental truth I've had to get to grips with over the last few months, it's that everyone's installation is different, no matter how standardized we try to make it. you may not have found lxde slow, or experienced crashes with it but I did, vice versa for xfce, and I have kept to minimal installs and - except for my Squeeze install which wasn't problematic until mid-july, I have reinstalled images and tested on several SD cards and USB drives.

I have issues with USB flash drives that don't seem to be a major issue for anyone else; even with the
Raspbian distro (and the latest Wheezy distros, and to a lesser extent, Squeeze), everything is up to 7 times slower when running rootfs from a USB stick. clearly this is not the case for everybody but it is for me. I've done clean installs, tried with two different USB drives and both are bad on all distros. one is a Sandisk Cruzer and I have read that their management software is problematic, but the other stick is an issue as well. I've posted quite a few times about this problem - if it was common other ppl would be posting about it too but they're not.

ren

ren41
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Re: Chromium for Raspberry Pi BETA

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:39 pm

ckpcw wrote:
not sure which magical build of squeeze you were using, or if youre cooling with liquid nitrogen or something, but..
whut?

chromium is dog slow on squeeze - hexxeh's build is leagues faster, but midori is still snappier across the board (of course)

also, the pi's cpu usage jumps to 100% when running apt from the shell with no X running. Hint: it's not because of lxde.

thanks for the build hexxeh, looking forward to where you take chromiumOS, etc
actually I notice my speed problems started a while before you joined the forum so I'm not sure any timings will be particularly meaningful for you - but I'll try and sort them out anyway.

ren

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