Pielevator
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Elevator project

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:51 pm

Hi guys,
I'm looking to start a crew to design a complete new elevator controller for the budget market.
I have 15 years experience in the elevator industry so have a lot of contacts. have worked on most control panels over the world. Would like to use fibre optic system

rotwang
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:12 pm

Re: Elevator project

Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:33 pm

If you know enough to work on elevator controls, then one would assume you would know enough NOT to even think about using a raspberry pi in a safety critical system. Wonderful device it maybe, but rated for use in safety critical systems it isn't, nor is it ever likely to be.

stevech
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:53 pm

Re: Elevator project

Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:40 am

An elevator controller using an RPi for a University term project makes sense.

Certainly not one for commercial use.

Think of the liability insurance cost!

JF002
Posts: 94
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Contact: Website

Re: Elevator project

Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:35 pm

stevech wrote:Certainly not one for commercial use.
It depends on what the RaspberryPi would be used for...
If the rPi is used for driving actuator, reading sensor and garantee the safety of the elevator, you're right.
But if it is used as an HMI (Human Machine Interface), GUI,... which communicates with another safety-approved device, it totally makes sense.
My web site : https://codingfield.com

Heater
Posts: 13357
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Elevator project

Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:49 pm

It still makes no sense. Getting stuck in a lift because the interface is busted is no fun.

The mere fact that a question about using a Pi in a safety critical controller application, such as a lift controller, hints that the questioner is not skilled enough to be tackling such a project.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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DougieLawson
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Re: Elevator project

Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:02 pm

Is a lift controller safety critical? I don't think so. Buttons and relays can (and do) fail. The safety critical piece is the mechanics (as invented by Elisha Otis) that prevents the lift from moving in the shaft in the event of any failure.

The Raspberry Pi compute module is intended for commercial usage (and hopefully the flash memory on that board is less prone to corruption than SDCards).
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

JF002
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Re: Elevator project

Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:03 pm

Heater wrote:It still makes no sense. Getting stuck in a lift because the interface is busted is no fun.
The same would be true for any other GUI application. Windows PC, Android phone, car entertainment system,... everything tends to crash one day or another, it does not make sense, but it happens...
Heater wrote:The mere fact that a question about using a Pi in a safety critical controller application, such as a lift controller, hints that the questioner is not skilled enough to be tackling such a project.
I understand your point, if the GUI software is badly written on a badly configured OS, it could be instable, and cause a bad experience for the user, but the system would still be safe, because the GUI is not part of the safety-critical controller.

The safety-critical controller must only ensure that no one is hurt in any situation (for example : do not go crazy when the UI is locked). A good safety-critical controller could also ensure that no material damage will occur. But it does not care if the user cannot use the device because of a faulty SD card.

Anyway, I don't know what are the requirements for an elevator, so I don't know if the rPi is the best platform for this kind of application.
My web site : https://codingfield.com

boyoh
Posts: 1329
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Selby. North Yorkshire .UK

Re: Elevator project

Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:54 pm

The Raspberry Pi was not designed for commercial
use, It was designed for learning programming and
electronics. All programmes must be FAIL TO SAFE
All isolating must be done in Open Loop.
All closed loop programming MUST BE FAIL TO SAFE
Use a tried and tested PLC.

Closed Loop ( AUTO )
Open Loop ( MANUAL)
BoyOh ( Selby, North Yorkshire.UK)
Some Times Right Some Times Wrong

Pielevator
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Elevator project

Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:40 pm

We can do it guys,
I've worked on lifts using Mercury arc rectifiers!

Pielevator
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Elevator project

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:12 pm

Let me digress,
If the pie crew could develop an application that would run on a pie. We would be able to get engineered into a bullet proof system that we could sell to lift companies.
open protocol is the future in lifts due to major companies not fulfillinggood value for money.
My friends. Don't think to much about the safety aspect as I can assure you legislation relies on mechanics not electronics

Phredog
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:51 am

Re: Elevator project

Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:57 am

In thoery you can test your algorithms, and heuristics using the pi. However an elevator controller is complex, so more than on pi would be required. For example one could reside in the cab to handle the floor selection buttons. It could communicate via a serial interface to the main controller up at the top. A second could handle the call buttons located on each floor.

The main controller is complicated. It must handle the main algorithm, and of corse any time dependent heuristics you choose. In addition some jurisdictions require a special mode where one cab cycles all the floors on every Friday.

As others stated, the SD card is not a reliable memory device. If any of the devices crash, the cab or cabs become inoperable. The people who are walking up the stairs will not be happy.

Pielevator
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Elevator project

Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:21 pm

No son that's the biggest piece of doo I've heard of this century.
A lift is a load calculator with low inputs.
You've described the project as a artificial entertity with a soul.

Heater
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Elevator project

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:55 pm

Pielevator,

I notice that in your opening post you did not actually ask any question. Only stated an intent to do something.

As such there are no answers coming or indeed possible. Only comments.
No son that's the biggest piece of doo I've heard of this century.
I will ignore that unnecessarily rude statement and just say:

If it is so easy, and with your 15 years experience in the elevator industry and bazillions of contacts, why don't you just get on and do it?

We will be interested to see what you come up with.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

Phredog
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:51 am

Re: Elevator project

Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:40 pm

Pielevator wrote:No son that's the biggest piece of doo I've heard of this century.
A lift is a load calculator with low inputs.
You've described the project as a artificial entertity with a soul.
If have been on this Earth 50 years. If there is one thing I have learned it is how to spot an American! If he is approaching from behind, his presence is given away by his whining undisciplined kids. If he is on the internet, his is just as easily spotted by his rudeness!

Good luck with the lift.

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Douglas6
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Elevator project

Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:00 pm

Phredog wrote:If have been on this Earth 50 years. If there is one thing I have learned it is how to spot an American! If he is approaching from behind, his presence is given away by his whining undisciplined kids. If he is on the internet, his is just as easily spotted by his rudeness!
Ouch.

Pielevator
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Elevator project

Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:23 am

Dear Crew members,
This subject has not died because its interesting. Ill compile an information pack for those who wish to receive more on the projects.
The first project we would be completing is the position indicator project.
We are going to design LCD displays to show the position of the lift. Usual open source systems are run off binary or grey code and suffer from poor creative graphical representation. We can design the system and then have fun with the graphics. Having alot of graphic design experience myself, the sky's the limit.

This will be more of a creative project and will be marketed in the UK to start. Although if successful will quickly be pushed into Europe.
By establishing this first high end addition to the lift industry, I will then steer our attention to door operation controllers, lift car shaft mapping devices and finally controllers.
Thankyou Crew

Phredog
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:51 am

Re: Elevator project

Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:34 am

Maybe put the pi aside and work on those people skills first? Posting non sequitur questions and comments, then putting people down when they try to help is not a hallmark of a 15 year seasoned professional,.

You said you have 15 years in the elevator business, but no expereince with controllers. I have many years expierience with embedded UNIX/Linux/and other controllers used in ATM, verifone terminals, and other devices. Rather than treating me as a colleague, you chose to be critical. Sorry dude, but such behavior is far from professional.

I was born in LA, and emmigrated from the USA. Unfortunately many men, like yourself, have passed through Singapore before me. Your type has left a sour attitude toward Americans in its wake. I have to deal with it daily. Many people regard Amercans as "wannabe elitists". Few Americans have made an attempt to change the sterotype.

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TimG
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Elevator project

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:06 pm

Pielevator wrote:Usual open source systems are run off binary or grey code and suffer from poor creative graphical representation.
What's the connection between Gray code and creative graphicals?

stevech
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:53 pm

Re: Elevator project

Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:18 am

The microprocessor as elevator (lift) controller - is a very common undergrad team task assignment.
Often, some students seek a ready-to-submit solution, usually at the eleventh hour.

Ut007
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Elevator project

Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:14 am

Dears....
I am a person playing with elevator code for 4 years using C & Micro-controller.
It will be amazing to see if we can use Pi in our elevator systems....
But the main thing in elevator software is response time. How fast it can scan a signal that changes suddenly..and respond accordingly.
Whether it is safety circuit of Elevator..or any other circuit of elevator.
There are a lot signal important to an elevator to run with precise timing and response even every millisecond is important in data sending,receiving and responding. There is a lot have to do for scanning a signal precisely that is gist of software of elevator. Whether Pi is so sensitive to changes...or not. If Pi is too much sensitive to signal with their timing then we can do a lot using Pi that never been done till date.

Good Luck @Pielevator :)

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