thedigi321
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advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:07 pm

i am looking to get a heat sink from a website, with that help it getting hot and turning off?

i ran it for a couple of hours on raspberry pi 2 setting, aka turbo, but last night it acted strange it turn off and didn't turn back on and kept resetting my OS(openelec) every now and again. i dont want to lose it and want it to last forever, would heat sinks help prolong its lifespan

Heater
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:10 pm

No.

The Raspi does not require a heat sink.

I think you have some other problem there.

If you are over clocking your Pi then expect the problems that come with running things out of specification.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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MarkHaysHarris777
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:14 pm

thedigi321 wrote:i am looking to get a heat sink from a website, with that help it getting hot and turning off?

i ran it for a couple of hours on raspberry pi 2 setting, aka turbo, but last night it acted strange it turn off and didn't turn back on and kept resetting my OS(openelec) every now and again. i dont want to lose it and want it to last forever, would heat sinks help prolong its lifespan
The only time the Raspberry PI needs a heat-sink in on the International Space Station; because convection does not work on the ISS.

On earth the RPi does not need a heat sink.

DO NOT overclock the RPi if you want it to function reliably (its your PI do what you want).
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:36 am

MarkHaysHarris777 wrote:-snip-
On earth the RPi does not need a heat sink.
Heater wrote:No.
The Raspi does not require a heat sink. -snip-
I keep seeing this time and time again, "The Rpi does not need a heatsink.", "The Rpi does not need a fan"
But the people saying this, don't take into consideration what the other person is doing with it. My Rpi2 is in an original gameboy, it's tight in this, i couldn't fit a heatsink, but i HAD to use a fan at the top to blow air through. Now people might argue time and time again that this isn't needed. My pi2's cpu hit 65c which might be tolerable for the Pi2's CPU, but it was dumping that heat into the internals of the gameboy.. including on the big 4000mAh Li-po battery that was on the back side of the pi2. Turns out, Lipo batteries don't tolerate the heat.

So before you tell someone the pi does not need a heatsink or fan, stop and take into consideration they may not be using it the same way you are.
My RPi needs a fan, heat will leech into the battery, so people saying I don't need a fan, don't understand how Li-Po batteries are affected by high temps. Cool pi = cool battery.
I would very much so like to see a Pi2/Pi3 Zero, power and size.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:52 am

Djinny wrote:So before you tell someone the pi does not need a heatsink or fan, stop and take into consideration they may not be using it the same way you are.
If someone asked you if a horse needs a top hat, would you feel the need to list all the circumstances under which a horse needs a top hat or just say no?

The pi does not need a heat sink. There may be situation where you'd want to have a heatsink, but you'd know if that was the case. You don't 'accidentally' put a pi on the ISS, in a closed container in a desert or inside a gameboy next to heat-sensitive components.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:03 am

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Djinny wrote:So before you tell someone the pi does not need a heatsink or fan, stop and take into consideration they may not be using it the same way you are.
If someone asked you if a horse needs a top hat, would you feel the need to list all the circumstances under which a horse needs a top hat or just say no?

The pi does not need a heat sink. There may be situation where you'd want to have a heatsink, but you'd know if that was the case. You don't 'accidentally' put a pi on the ISS, in a closed container in a desert or inside a gameboy next to heat-sensitive components.
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:19 am

Djinny wrote:
MarkHaysHarris777 wrote:-snip-
On earth the RPi does not need a heat sink.
Heater wrote:No.
The Raspi does not require a heat sink. -snip-
My pi2's cpu hit 65c which might be tolerable for the Pi2's CPU, but it was dumping that heat into the internals of the gameboy.. including on the big 4000mAh Li-po battery that was on the back side of the pi2. Turns out, Lipo batteries don't tolerate the heat.
Bottom line: the RPi2 doesn´t need heatsinks. A system that includes an RPi might need some cooling, not because of the RPi but because of other components that might actually need cooling.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:21 am

Djinny wrote:\
I keep seeing this time and time again, "The Rpi does not need a heatsink.", "The Rpi does not need a fan"
But the people saying this, don't take into consideration what the other person is doing with it. My Rpi2 is in an original gameboy, it's tight in this, i couldn't fit a heatsink, but i HAD to use a fan at the top to blow air through. Now people might argue time and time again that this isn't needed. My pi2's cpu hit 65c which might be tolerable for the Pi2's CPU, but it was dumping that heat into the internals of the gameboy.. including on the big 4000mAh Li-po battery that was on the back side of the pi2. Turns out, Lipo batteries don't tolerate the heat.
Okay...At 65C, the Pi does NOT need a heatsink or fan. It's your battery that needs the fan. (And, even if you found a heatsink you could put on the Pi in your enclosure, it wouldn't do anything to keep the temperature inside down. From the description, you need to get the generated heat out of the enclosure to keep from cooking the battery. Hence, a fan--to cool the battery--is the requirement.)

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:17 am

Djinny wrote:So before you tell someone the pi does not need a heatsink or fan, stop and take into consideration they may not be using it the same way you are.
http://www.geek.com/science/this-gorgeo ... s-1622598/

The link above is the ISS Astro PI case... sorry you can't buy it... not yet... but you might be able to replicate it (or something like it).

The problem here is that heatsinks do not work in tight enclosures. If you have ever studied the heatsinks on the macs (mac air, mac pro) you'll know what I mean... or just look at the bulky heatsink used for the ISS Astro PI. You either use a bulky "box" like the ISS did to dissipate the heat over a very large surface area, or you use a thermal conduit (like the macs, and others) that draw the heat away to some sort of radiator and fan. In any case none of that is going to work in your gameboy case.

You are using the wrong SBC (MCU) for your project (might consider the Pyboard and Micro Python), or your project uses the wrong housing for the Raspberry PI... in any case you are not going to solve this problem with a heatsink.

You might be able to use a very clever arrangement of micro fan pulling air over the batts and pushing it out over the SBC. ?
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:59 am

Sounds like this thread has gone a little off track and is not helping the original poster. It could potentially be the power supply, do you have a spare that you could try?

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:27 am

Worth noting that the 2835 and its successor the 2836 were originally designed to be put in to mobile devices cases, which don't have a specific heatsink and are very tight enclosures. They also don't have fans. But they are designed very well to get rid of excess heat (using the case as a dissipation device for example)
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:47 pm

I think we can all agree, that horses need top hats.
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Also, yes the bettery needs a fan, but i'm not cooling the battery, i'm cooling the pi so it doesn't heat the battery. If the problem is heat, fix it at the source. Cool the pi to avoid heating the battery. A rasberry pi, by itself, is a non-functional object, and does not need a heatsink, or anything. Add other components such as a power supply, and you change the circumstances and requirements. For me, i need a fan to cool the pi to avoid heating the battery.. and to avoid damaging other stuff. If someone told me i didn't need cooling in my build to keep it functional, they'd be wrong.

PS, the horse in a top hat argument was really silly. And not relevant what so ever. A better one would have been "Does a horse need a saddle?" Since the answer would be entirely dependent on the situation. But maybe that would support what i was saying, so we can't have that.
My RPi needs a fan, heat will leech into the battery, so people saying I don't need a fan, don't understand how Li-Po batteries are affected by high temps. Cool pi = cool battery.
I would very much so like to see a Pi2/Pi3 Zero, power and size.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:19 pm

Djinny,

"Does a horse need a saddle?", No.

"Does a Pi need a heatsink?", No.

"Since the answer would be entirely dependent on the situation". Perhaps, nothing to do with the horse or the Pi, but rather depends on the demands of the owner.

The only thing that gets noticeably warm to the touch here is the USB socket with the WIFI dongle in it.

Does the rest of your construction need protection from elevated temperatures? Perhaps. Deal with it in the time honoured engineering manner, read the specs, make the measurements, do what is required.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:33 pm

thedigi321 wrote:i am looking to get a heat sink from a website, with that help it getting hot and turning off?

i ran it for a couple of hours on raspberry pi 2 setting, aka turbo, but last night it acted strange it turn off and didn't turn back on and kept resetting my OS(openelec) every now and again. i dont want to lose it and want it to last forever, would heat sinks help prolong its lifespan
If you are talking about "turbo mode" where the Pi can no longer adjust its speed based on the load, then I don't recommend that. I've experimented with other overclocking options, however have not seen enough benefit for it to be worthwhile.

Other causes that can be mistaken for an overclocking issue are:
Not having a strong enough power supply. You really want an 2 amp supply if you are going to use the USB ports.
Not setting the Pi2 to allow more current on the USB when you have USB devices that require this. You get a rainbow square in the upper right corner if this is the case.

You might have a working overclock, but the second you plug in one more USB device that worked fine without the overclock, things stop working.
Things run fast enough on the Pi2, I think the speed limiters are mostly how fast you can read from storage and how much RAM there is so you don't have to read from storage as often. You can't change that with any overclock settings.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:14 pm

Also:
Heat sinks provide little benefit unless paired with a fan. You get maybe a few degrees of difference in temperature. The problem is that the heat from the heat sinks gets trapped inside the case as well. Fans provide the most cooling, however can be noisy. Another option is an entire case that acts as a heat sink. I have one on a Raspberry Pi model B, but it was expensive and not really necessary. Flirc, however makes a case for the B+ and B2 that is not as nice in my opinion, but better priced and it seems to do an equally good job at additional cooling. I own two of these. On a hot day, one of the Pi2's will almost get to 50°C which is well within normal operating temperatures and nowhere near forcing the Pi to run slow to bring temperatures down.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Tom_A wrote:The problem is that the heat from the heat sinks gets trapped inside the case as well. Fans provide the most cooling, however can be noisy. Another option is an entire case that acts as a heat sink.
Yes. There is a third option which involves placing the temperature sensitive object (the batt in this situation) 'outside' the case. In other words, split the case with perhaps a micro fan in the PI case, so that the batt is isolated thermally (spatially) from the heat source.
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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:56 am

Djinny wrote: PS, the horse in a top hat argument was really silly. And not relevant what so ever. A better one would have been "Does a horse need a saddle?"
No, horses don't need saddles.

Horse riders often need them though.

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Re: advice for heat sink raspberry 2

Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:02 pm

Djinny wrote:
MarkHaysHarris777 wrote:-snip-
On earth the RPi does not need a heat sink.
Heater wrote:No.
The Raspi does not require a heat sink. -snip-
I keep seeing this time and time again, "The Rpi does not need a heatsink.", "The Rpi does not need a fan"
But the people saying this, don't take into consideration what the other person is doing with it. My Rpi2 is in an original gameboy, it's tight in this, i couldn't fit a heatsink, but i HAD to use a fan at the top to blow air through. Now people might argue time and time again that this isn't needed. My pi2's cpu hit 65c which might be tolerable for the Pi2's CPU, but it was dumping that heat into the internals of the gameboy.. including on the big 4000mAh Li-po battery that was on the back side of the pi2. Turns out, Lipo batteries don't tolerate the heat.

So before you tell someone the pi does not need a heatsink or fan, stop and take into consideration they may not be using it the same way you are.
Having re-read this, I'm still of the opinion that the Pi DOES NOT need a heatsink even in your circumstances. 65 degrees is nowhere near needing a heatsink/cooling.

BUT, the battery does need to be kept cool.

Which is an entirely different proposition. It's the battery that needs the heat management, not the Pi. In fact even a heatsink would make no difference in your case, since the heat would still be inside the case, warming the battery. So your fan approach seems to be the sensible option to keep the battery working.
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