Ampix0
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:08 am

Hey guys, have been lurking here for about 3 months reading and stuff finally decided to make my account.

I am SUPER excited for this project I already plan on buying two if possible.

One issue! I am a windows guy :( I know I know, but I love my Adobe suit and video games so I never switched.

Can one of you amazingly helpful guys direct to to a good online tutorial series for linux. I am looking for both basic and command line tutorials.

To be able to do what I have planned I think I should learn a bit more about the OS.

SlayingDragons
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:17 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:41 am

Well, what do you plan on doing? I\'d be interested in hearing, and it may help direct you to something that would help with it. :)

Imo, the best way to learn about it is to interact with it. Try ubuntu from a live disc/usb or install it via wubi, while checking out documentation on the Ubuntu wiki. (http://www.ubuntu.com/) Basically just mess around with it a bit and google any questions you have, as there\'s documentation for virtually everything out there. That\'s how I learned, and how I continue to learn about linux.

If you want to mess around with the command line without installing or anything, you can always try out an in-browser javascript simulator of linux: http://bellard.org/jslinux/
You can google some basic linux commands to get you started and give you a feel for it. Some basic commands are:

Code: Select all

cd - change directory, syntaxed as \"cd directory\", or \"cd directory/anotherdirectory\"
ls - list contents of the current directory
mv - move a file, syntaxed as \"mv fileToMove locationToMoveTo\"
cp - copy a file, syntaxed as \"cp fileToCopy fileToCopyTo\"
rm - remove a file, syntaxed as \"rm file\"
cat - a versatile utility, can be used to list contents of a file. \"cat file\"
vi - a text editor that\'s a pain imo, but feature-rich and worth learning how to use. \"vi file\"
pwd - print the working directory (where you are)
clear - clear the terminal

A little note(s): \"cd ..\" brings you up one directory.
If you try ubuntu or another modern distro, nano is an easier to use and simpler text editor that should be included by default. I just said vi because it\'s on virtually every linux system out there, including the javascript simulator.
I know it sounds lazy on my part just telling you to go google stuff, but it\'s really one of the best ways to find info. :P

Hope you find this useful. :D

obarthelemy
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:47 am

I\"m about where you\'re at, started trying to set up a server 2 weeks ago, so I\'m doing mainly console commands. One thing for sure: the learning curve is steep: regular commands are just different enough from DOS to throw you off; config files (and programs) are in random places (and sometimes several places, you\'ve got to try them all to see which is actually used), with a random syntax (sometimes \"key\"=\"value\", sometimes key=value, any combination thereof, sometimes with substitutions for special chars, sometimes not); programs\' run options are random too (sometimes running a daemon in console mode is -d, sometimes -f, sometimes... anything else).
Also, getting documentation is extremely hard (for example, I\'ve spent about 10 hrs trying to find out how to get my server to NOT launch X11 at boot, but to open several terminals... Haven\'t got it working yet). Each flavour of Linux does things differently enough that explanations for another version are usually (but not always) useless, and, even worse, different versions of the same distribution can change things completely, so that nice explanation you\'ve found on how to do things in Ubuntu 9.04 no longer applies for 9.10 (but sometimes, it does apply).

So, my advice would be: try to stay in graphics mode as long as possible. Get the stuff you want running there, it\'s mostly painless, and once you\'re reassured that Linux can do most of what you want, carefully venture into the command line for the rest.

Don\'t ask for help on forums, you\'ll mainly get blown off. I\'ve had much better luck looking for info in google (specify your distribution and version, nickname and number) on forums, try that stuff out (about 30% success rate, 2hrs average per problem), then go to the ubuntu-beginners IRC channel, and take care to use linuxy words in your questions.

SlayingDragons
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:17 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:04 am

[quote]Quote from obarthelemy on October 22, 2011, 07:47
I\"m about where you\'re at, started trying to set up a server 2 weeks ago, so I\'m doing mainly console commands. One thing for sure: the learning curve is steep: regular commands are just different enough from DOS to throw you off; config files (and programs) are in random places (and sometimes several places, you\'ve got to try them all to see which is actually used), with a random syntax (sometimes \"key\"=\"value\", sometimes key=value, any combination thereof, sometimes with substitutions for special chars, sometimes not); programs\' run options are random too (sometimes running a daemon in console mode is -d, sometimes -f, sometimes... anything else).
Also, getting documentation is extremely hard (for example, I\'ve spent about 10 hrs trying to find out how to get my server to NOT launch X11 at boot, but to open several terminals... Haven\'t got it working yet). Each flavour of Linux does things differently enough that explanations for another version are usually (but not always) useless, and, even worse, different versions of the same distribution can change things completely, so that nice explanation you\'ve found on how to do things in Ubuntu 9.04 no longer applies for 9.10 (but sometimes, it does apply).

So, my advice would be: try to stay in graphics mode as long as possible. Get the stuff you want running there, it\'s mostly painless, and once you\'re reassured that Linux can do most of what you want, carefully venture into the command line for the rest.

Don\'t ask for help on forums, you\'ll mainly get blown off. I\'ve had much better luck looking for info in google (specify your distribution and version, nickname and number) on forums, try that stuff out (about 30% success rate, 2hrs average per problem), then go to the ubuntu-beginners IRC channel, and take care to use linuxy words in your questions.[/quote]

It took you that long to not get x11 to boot at default? 0_0

What distro are you using? You should have just started with something that didn\'t have X to begin with imo, and just save yourself the trouble. Oh yeah, and the assorted arguments isn\'t linux\'s fault, that\'s the different program\'s fault. Every program handles arguments differently.

And, I have to disagree with staying in graphics mode as long as possible. That\'s not how you get your feet wet and learn, that\'s how you stay comfortable with bad habits. Treading carefully into it is not how you want to go into it. After all, the command line is nothing to be afraid of. Honestly, how much are you going to learn from point-and-click? It just makes things harder when you try and actually do something.

User avatar
r3d4
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:21 am
Location: ./

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:21 am

get live cd
( and an eth cable , the wifi DRIVER?? may need something to get it working , depending
on the distro\'s default-configs )

look at \"GNU/Linux Distribution Timeline\"

search / or \'surfraw\'
read wikis , forums ,ect
Real life is, to most, a long second-best, a perpetual compromise between the ideal and the possible.
-
Meanwhile, the sysadmin who accidentally nuked the data reckons "its best not run anything more with sudo today"
-
what about spike milligan?

obarthelemy
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:52 am

@Slaying:
- I\'m using the Ubuntu before Natty, a slightly custom Hercules variant. Uses a custom kernel, which UKscone kindly figured out and recompiled to add cifs support to. The kernel cannot be changed, or so they say, and I haven\'t tried \'coz things are hard enough as it is.
- We tried starting off another distro when we figured cifs was not working, but we were losing too much stuff (drivers, power management...), so those hours went out the window.
- I tried uninstalling X, wich took hours sifting through hundreds of packages trying to figure out which were exclusively related to X, which were not related to X... and I obviously misfired on a few that appeared related to X but were (or were *also* ?) related to console, \'coz that kinda broke the whole install, console included. Plus it turned out to be a dead end: because of lack of documentation, there\'s some stuff (power management) I only know how to do from X, or via gnome-power-management. Hint to Linux: an \"uninstall\" function is very handy.
- We tried changing the boot actions in init.d, and after some time figured out that Ubuntu is using Upstart and init, not init.d. So we managed to stop gdm from running from there, but not to get the ttys to autorun, so my boot screen right now is a blank screen with a blinking cursor, and I\'ve got to hit ctrl-alt-Fx to start the ttys (autologin works though, they just don\'t autorun). I\'m hoping to get that solved, and to figure out how to autorun stuff (minidlna daemon, transmission daemon, in foreground mode so I can watch over them), in each tty. I\'ve got some docs saved as avenues of investigation, for when I\'ll feel up to it. Funny thing is, when I did the non-X boot SD, my ttys autoran fine, and I\'m not aware of anything I changed apart from making them autologin, which I also did in my new X boot SD.

In the end, I think I\'m at about 40 hours to setup a NAS/Torrent/dlna/FTP headless server, with a typical ratio of 5hrs looking for info for each 5 minute action. Ukscone has solved to vital stuff (getting cifs, compiling miniDLNA which turned out really easy), and I\'m fairly confident I can get autologin and autoruns to work in only a few hours more.

I\'m bumping into funny stuff still: Right now for example: launch X, create a partition, try to put stuff on it: \"error, you tried to write stuff to a partition you don\'t own\"... mmm, I just created it and I don\'t own it.. okayyyy... go to /mnt... mmmm... partition does not appear there... I\'m guessing X uses partitions w/o mounting them, or mounts them elsewhere (\'coz that\'s more fun), oh well... let\'s mount it where it\'s supposed to be, try to edit rights there.. no luck... bang head a few times... go to ubuntu-beginners... \"sudo chown -R \"$USER:\" /mnt/partition ... victory !

WizardOfOZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:08 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:11 am

Ampix0,

Do not despair, you are not alone in being frustrated by being in a maze of small Linux distributions, all different. The lack of standardization and documentation is something I hope the Raspi project may at least partway be able to avoid. This due to the hardware being fixed, and my hope that the community will mainly focus on a single Linux distribution.

If you are just looking to learn the basics of an UNIX operation system, them you might wish to consider running FreeBSD. While it isn\'t \'Linux\' due to running a different kernel, the principles are the same. In FreeBSD things like startup and configuration *is* standardized, and those standards only change very slowly over time, if at all. I believe you may also find the FreeBSD handbook to be a breath of fresh air. (Top level documentation.)

Scribe
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:00 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:14 am

[quote]Quote from Ampix0 on October 22, 2011, 05:08
Hey guys, have been lurking here for about 3 months reading and stuff finally decided to make my account.

I am SUPER excited for this project I already plan on buying two if possible.

One issue! I am a windows guy :( I know I know, but I love my Adobe suit and video games so I never switched.

Can one of you amazingly helpful guys direct to to a good online tutorial series for linux. I am looking for both basic and command line tutorials.

To be able to do what I have planned I think I should learn a bit more about the OS.[/quote]

There\'s a pocket guide, built around fedora Linux, really handy:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0596006284/r ... 0596006284

I\'ve just been writing a series on how to cross-compile from Windows to Linux as well:
http://blog.quickforge.co.uk/2011/10/ex ... ributions/

I recommend getting comfy with command-line first, I found most of my progress was made after I ditched the GUI and stopped trying to rely on it.

tufty
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:32 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:16 am

[quote]Quote from WizardOfOZ on October 22, 2011, 10:11
If you are just looking to learn the basics of an UNIX operation system, them you might wish to consider running FreeBSD.[/quote]
+1 on the *BSD in terms of design (overall and low-level) and stability.

There is a downside, largely that you won\'t necessarily get driver support for $RANDOM_PERIPHERAL that Linux does support.

If you want to learn what a *n*x system is about, Stephen Bourne\'s \"The Unix System V environment\" is a pretty good book, if a little dated nowadays.

Pretty much all the installed software on a *n*x system comes with manual pages, some of which are even useful. Typing
[quote]man command[/quote]
where \'command\' is the command you want to learn about, should get you some information. If you don\'t know the command to do something, \'apropos\' is useful, i.e.
[quote]apropos something[/quote]
will give you a list of things \'man\' knows about which mention \'something\'.

Learning to use a *n*x system is pretty hard; it\'s a steep curve. Once you\'ve mastered it, though, you\'ll feel horribly constrained by what comes out of Redmond.

Simon

Bacan
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:03 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:41 pm

[quote]Quote from Ampix0 on October 22, 2011, 05:08
1) I am a windows guy
2) good online tutorial series for linux.
2a) both basic and command line tutorials.
3) I should learn a bit more about the OS.[/quote]

I acknowledge that that you want something online.
If you don\'t find what you need there, see if your local Library has, or pay major postage (damn things are heavy) and get cheap copies from a Book reSeller:

Linux All-In-One for Dummies 8 Books in 1
* Linux Basics
* Linux Desktop
* Networking
* The Internet
* Administration
* Security
* Linux Servers
* Programming
ISBN 978-0-470-77019-1

Linux Programming Bible
ISBN 0-7645-4657-0

Best Wishes learning Yet Another OS

Ampix0
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:43 pm

Thanks a lot guys! I have used Ubuntu before, GUI isnt really difficult, different but I can manage it. The reason I want to get more into command line is because I plan on accessing the R-Pi purely remotely.
Via SSH and Web control panels for the sake of saving ram for what I actually want the devices doing.

For example on one of the devices I want to run boxee for a CHEAP entertainment center.

And for the other one (someone already beat me to the punch on this idea) I wanted to install some type of NAS program (not sure what is available for linux) and a torrent client with remote access. I had planned to use utorrent but someone else mentioned a command line client which im sure would be much more efficient \"http://aria2.sourceforge.net/\"

Scribe
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:00 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:49 pm

Pity there\'s no SATA, will have to be a USB NAS!

I recommend practising with fedora as it\'s looking increasingly like this will be the supported OS for the Pi, but from a command-line point of view there\'s almost no difference between fedora and ubuntu.

Remoting is great, I have a Pandaboard in the office hooked up via serial connection, I can remote in from home and connect to it any time, it\'s super. If you take an image of your SD card using something like Win32DiskImager you can instantly re-flash and restore your entire OS if you mess something up.

tufty
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:32 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:58 pm

Starting from here might be useful. http://linuxcommand.org/lts0010.php

Ampix0
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:05 pm

[quote]Quote from tufty on October 22, 2011, 13:58
Starting from here might be useful. http://linuxcommand.org/lts0010.php[/quote]

ha I just found that on google and was reading.
I was practicing it with
http://bellard.org/jslinux/

in there there is a hello.c

I can\'t figure out how to compile/run google brought back a million different ways to do it O.O

[img]http://i.imgur.com/OFKh7.png[/img]

WizardOfOZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:08 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:15 pm

[quote]Quote from Ampix0 on October 22, 2011, 14:05
I can\'t figure out how to compile/run google brought back a million different ways to do it O.O
[/quote]
~ # tcc -o hello hello.c
~ # ./hello
Hello World
~ #

The command is mentioned within the source file itself, which you can read using the \'less\' command.

kme
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:28 pm

[quote]I can\'t figure out how to compile/run google brought back a million different ways to do it O.O[/quote] It\'s \"vi\" not \"Vi\". All Unices are case sensitive. And vi is probably the absolutely *worst* editor to choose for a newbie. It\'s like suggesting people to use edlin in Windows. Use something useful like nano/pico or joe (if you know WS or Turbopascal/cousins).

obarthelemy
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:30 pm

linux is case-sensitive, so vi and Vi are not the same thing. Don\'t know gcc, but options can vary by linux flavor. Check your own \"man gcc\" to know options supported, if man pages are up to date for the actual tools inclued in your distro, which they sometimes (often ?) aren\'t.

Ampix0
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:40 pm

[quote]Quote from WizardOfOZ on October 22, 2011, 14:15
[quote]Quote from Ampix0 on October 22, 2011, 14:05
I can\'t figure out how to compile/run google brought back a million different ways to do it O.O
[/quote]
~ # tcc -o hello hello.c
~ # ./hello
Hello World
~ #

The command is mentioned within the source file itself, which you can read using the \'less\' command.[/quote]

oh i see :) useful. Now that is just their suggestion though I assume. you could use any compiler?

and not to be annoying.. XD how do i then Exit the script

WizardOfOZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:08 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:53 pm

Yep, you could use any compiler instead of tcc if available, though I don\'t think there is any other available in the linked simulator. The exact command line parameters may depend on the exact compiler used, though the syntax I used will work for getting started on most C compilers I can think of.

You exit \'less\' by hitting Ctrl-C.

tufty
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:32 pm

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:54 pm

[quote]Quote from kme on October 22, 2011, 14:28
vi is probably the absolutely *worst* editor[/quote]
Them\'s fightin\' words :)

[quote]Quote from Ampix0 on October 22, 2011, 14:40
oh i see :) useful. Now that is just their suggestion though I assume. you could use any compiler?[/quote]
Given that it\'s a javascript emulation of linux, rather than an actual linux box, you\'re gonna have to use tcc. On a real linux machine, you would probably use gcc (and if you want to be truly portable, you\'d use cc, which is usually a symlink to the installed \'system\' compiler)

[quote]Quote from Ampix0 on October 22, 2011, 14:40
how do i then Exit the script[/quote]
Exiting a script is usually done using Ctrl-C. That\'s usually a \"hard exit\", which will kill the process (in technical terms, Ctrl-C sends SIGINT to the process, allowing it to clean up after itself) without continuing any processing it\'s doing.

If you have something that\'s asking for input, you don\'t want to kill it, you want to terminate your input, and that\'s Ctrl-D.

\'less\' will also accept the \'q\' keystroke as a \"hint\" that it should fsck off.
Simon

Ampix0
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am

Re: Linux noob tutorials?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:06 pm

XD i like the sound of q

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