wcale
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No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design defect?

Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:57 am

Raspberry Pi as multimedia computer with HDMI output does not have 2nd important function such as BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST control over HDMI?
In any TV at the 1st place is volume control and the second one is brightness control.
Why Raspberry Pi does not have such important functionality?
Is there any method to control brightness (i.e. C/C++, shell command or any way)? Or that function cannot be implemented due to irreversible bug project in the design of HDMI HW connector?

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:31 pm

I'm not aware of any mechanism for setting the brightness.

Since this is the first time this has been brought up in 3 years, I'm not convinced it's all that important - your TV presumably has a brightness control? Not sure I've ever changed the brightness on my TV's after initial setup.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:58 pm

wcale wrote:Raspberry Pi as multimedia computer with HDMI output does not have 2nd important function such as BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST control over HDMI?
In any TV at the 1st place is volume control and the second one is brightness control.
Why Raspberry Pi does not have such important functionality?
Is there any method to control brightness (i.e. C/C++, shell command or any way)? Or that function cannot be implemented due to irreversible bug project in the design of HDMI HW connector?
Data transfer on HDMI is digital data and it's up to the TV/Monitor to set up contrast/brightness. It always gets the full resolution of pixel data.
This is not a design bug.
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wcale
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:09 pm

jamesh wrote:Since this is the first time this has been brought up in 3 years, I'm not convinced it's all that important - your TV presumably has a brightness control? Not sure I've ever changed the brightness on my TV's after initial setup.
- Every TV has brightness / contrast button on the remote controller.
- In every monitor you can control it through WH buttons in monitor.
- Even in Windows you can change monitor brightness level.
- Every mobile has brightness level
- My laptop has that functionality.
- Normal Linux has xrandr and xbacklight shell commands to control brightness level.
- Even my alarm clock has brightness control.
But in Pi it's not important?

There is mplayer for Pi, where is brightness level control, but it's not working (due driver incompatibility).

In the night it's better to decrease brightness due to eyes damage and display quality. And better to control it through remote than by manual.

Brightness level can be controlled in every display (LCD, LED, Plasma...). So that functionality is important in Pi also.
gkreidl wrote:Data transfer on HDMI is digital data and it's up to the TV/Monitor to set up contrast/brightness. It always gets the full resolution of pixel data.
This is not a design bug.
And it is quite big bug, because every because there is no possibility to control it through any SW method like I mentioned above (xrandr, xbacklight, mplayer and other).

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:17 pm

wcale wrote:
jamesh wrote:Since this is the first time this has been brought up in 3 years, I'm not convinced it's all that important - your TV presumably has a brightness control? Not sure I've ever changed the brightness on my TV's after initial setup.
- Every TV has brightness / contrast button on the remote controller.
- In every monitor you can control it through WH buttons in monitor.
- Even in Windows you can change monitor brightness level.
- Every mobile has brightness level
- My laptop has that functionality.
- Normal Linux has xrandr and xbacklight shell commands to control brightness level.
- Even my alarm clock has brightness control.
But in Pi it's not important?

There is mplayer for Pi, where is brightness level control, but it's not working (due driver incompatibility).

In the night it's better to decrease brightness due to eyes damage and display quality. And better to control it through remote than by manual.

Brightness level can be controlled in every display (LCD, LED, Plasma...). So that functionality is important in Pi also.
gkreidl wrote:Data transfer on HDMI is digital data and it's up to the TV/Monitor to set up contrast/brightness. It always gets the full resolution of pixel data.
This is not a design bug.
And it is quite big bug, because every because there is no possibility to control it through any SW method like I mentioned above (xrandr, xbacklight, mplayer and other).
Monitors/TV's have there own brightness controls - so just use them.
Mobiles and laptops have NO OTHER WAY to control the brightness, but through the OS installed, so that argument is flawed.
A serious bug? 4 1/2 million Pi's out there and it's not been mentioned before - do you really think it's serious :roll:
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:24 pm

The RPi is no display unit. You cannot compare it to a tablet or laptop with built-in displays.
The software you mention might work with analog outputs (VGA).
You connect the RPi to a monitor or TV and all of these offer brightness/contrast control.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:39 pm

texy wrote:Monitors/TV's have there own brightness controls - so just use them.
Mobiles and laptops have NO OTHER WAY to control the brightness, but through the OS installed, so that argument is flawed.
A serious bug? 4 1/2 million Pi's out there and it's not been mentioned before - do you really think it's serious :roll:
Texy
Yes, of course it's serious. Many people asking about that.
texy wrote:Monitors/TV's have there own brightness controls - so just use them.
You can compile application in sheet of paper in hex code - why to use computer to do that?
And read a book than looking into monitor.
So what is the reason to build RPi - there is so many calculators.
gkreidl wrote:The RPi is no display unit. You cannot compare it to a tablet or laptop with built-in displays.
Yes I can, because there is software brightness control method... except Pi of course :(
gkreidl wrote:The software you mention might work with analog outputs (VGA).
You connect the RPi to a monitor or TV and all of these offer brightness/contrast control.
Not true - look in wikipedia for example.
In HDMI specification is a channel which is used to communication.
DDC MCCS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_Co ... ommand_Set
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:50 pm

wcale wrote:
texy wrote:Monitors/TV's have there own brightness controls - so just use them.
Mobiles and laptops have NO OTHER WAY to control the brightness, but through the OS installed, so that argument is flawed.
A serious bug? 4 1/2 million Pi's out there and it's not been mentioned before - do you really think it's serious :roll:
Texy
Yes, of course it's serious. Many people asking about that.
Where? Not here on the forum...

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:52 pm

Can you indicate where all the people looking for brightness control are? Because yours is the FIRST post I have seen about it.

Is there some reason you cannot use your TV's remote control for this? For example, when I plug a Pi in to a monitor, I use the monitors brightness control. When I plug a Pi in to a TV, I use the TV's remote control, because that's how I control the Pi. It's NEVER occurred to me that you might want to do this on the Pi itself.

Does Kodi have a brightness control? Or does it rely on the TV remote?

TBH, it may even be possible. Just no-one has ever asked for it before so I don;t know whether it's available or not.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:10 pm

there's a linux software (g)DDCcontrol, but it doesn't work on the RPi. And it's rather outdated, too (latest release of monitor database about 9 years ago). I suppose they didn't work on it any more, because no one is asking for it (except the OP, of course, the first in 4.5M).
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:12 pm

DirkS wrote:Where? Not here on the forum...
Exactly!
Everywhere, but not here.
"The darkest place is under the candlestick."
jamesh wrote:Can you indicate where all the people looking for brightness control are? Because yours is the FIRST post I have seen about it.
There is a lot of the pages:
https://www.google.pl/?gws_rd=ssl#q=xra ... +raspberry
i.e.:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 8&p=681773
http://askubuntu.com/questions/149054/h ... via-script
http://93.93.130.214/forums/viewtopic.p ... 5&p=465995
jamesh wrote:Is there some reason you cannot use your TV's remote control for this?
Yes!
I don't have TV. Only monitor without remote control.
jamesh wrote:TBH, it may even be possible. Just no-one has ever asked for it before so I don;t know whether it's available or not.
They asking, but you're not listening.

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:15 pm

Doug.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:20 pm

wcale wrote:
DirkS wrote:Where? Not here on the forum...
Exactly!
Everywhere, but not here.
"The darkest place is under the candlestick."
If I have a question about Kodi I go to the Kodi forum, similarly with Raspbmc, Openelec,Ubuntu who all have their own forums.
And of course if I have a question about Raspberry Pi I go to... Reddit? Stack Exchange? AskUbuntu? :roll:

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:23 pm

Yes, seven (!) years ago.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:05 pm

wcale wrote:
DirkS wrote:Where? Not here on the forum...
Exactly!
Everywhere, but not here.
"The darkest place is under the candlestick."
jamesh wrote:Can you indicate where all the people looking for brightness control are? Because yours is the FIRST post I have seen about it.
There is a lot of the pages:
https://www.google.pl/?gws_rd=ssl#q=xra ... +raspberry
i.e.:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 8&p=681773
http://askubuntu.com/questions/149054/h ... via-script
http://93.93.130.214/forums/viewtopic.p ... 5&p=465995
jamesh wrote:Is there some reason you cannot use your TV's remote control for this?
Yes!
I don't have TV. Only monitor without remote control.
jamesh wrote:TBH, it may even be possible. Just no-one has ever asked for it before so I don;t know whether it's available or not.
They asking, but you're not listening.
In order for people to listen, you need to make your voice heard.

Since yours is the first voice I have heard on the subject, the people who are asking for this (still just you as far as I know) are not asking the right people. This is the correct forum for asking about this. Nowhere else. The Raspberry Pi foundation cannot be held responsible for answering questions people ask out of earshot.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:55 pm

wcale wrote:
jamesh wrote:Is there some reason you cannot use your TV's remote control for this?
Yes!
I don't have TV. Only monitor without remote control.
All Monitors have an OSD for changing settings such as brightness etcetera, that is why the have buttons !
Retired disgracefully.....
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Rather than negativity think outside the box !

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:31 pm

DirkS wrote:If I have a question about Kodi I go to the Kodi forum, similarly with Raspbmc, Openelec,Ubuntu who all have their own forums.
And of course if I have a question about Raspberry Pi I go to... Reddit? Stack Exchange? AskUbuntu? :roll:
Why you're so malicious?
I give you the links to realiable forums and you remove them and write in angry tone.
jamesh wrote:In order for people to listen, you need to make your voice heard.

Since yours is the first voice I have heard on the subject, the people who are asking for this (still just you as far as I know) are not asking the right people. This is the correct forum for asking about this. Nowhere else. The Raspberry Pi foundation cannot be held responsible for answering questions people ask out of earshot.
Ok, i quote it again:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 8&p=681773
http://askubuntu.com/questions/149054/h ... via-script
http://93.93.130.214/forums/viewtopic.p ... 5&p=465995

Are you sure? All the links which I posted (except middle one) are posted in wrong forum?
fruitoftheloom wrote:All Monitors have an OSD for changing settings such as brightness etcetera, that is why the have buttons !
Really? You are genius !
So this is the knowledge, which you want to share with everyone? You write that type of answer for serious question?
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:41 pm

wcale wrote:
DirkS wrote:If I have a question about Kodi I go to the Kodi forum, similarly with Raspbmc, Openelec,Ubuntu who all have their own forums.
And of course if I have a question about Raspberry Pi I go to... Reddit? Stack Exchange? AskUbuntu? :roll:
Why you're so malicious?
I give you the links to realiable forums and you remove them and write in angry tone.
Not malicious at all. A large proportion of the links provided (the one using Google search) seem to point to 3rd party forums / websites, etc. Many of them don't seem to relate to the RasPi at all.
You can't expect for the RPF to search the web 24/7 to pick up these things.

You began talk about it being a huge bug and the fact that many people asked about it.
Well, AFAICS from the relevant activity here on the forum that's overstating the situation quite dramatically.

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:02 pm

DirkS wrote:
wcale wrote:
DirkS wrote:If I have a question about Kodi I go to the Kodi forum, similarly with Raspbmc, Openelec,Ubuntu who all have their own forums.
And of course if I have a question about Raspberry Pi I go to... Reddit? Stack Exchange? AskUbuntu? :roll:
Why you're so malicious?
I give you the links to realiable forums and you remove them and write in angry tone.
Not malicious at all. A large proportion of the links provided (the one using Google search) seem to point to 3rd party forums / websites, etc. Many of them don't seem to relate to the RasPi at all.
You can't expect for the RPF to search the web 24/7 to pick up these things.

You began talk about it being a huge bug and the fact that many people asked about it.
Well, AFAICS from the relevant activity here on the forum that's overstating the situation quite dramatically.
So you're suggesting me that I'm asking about this bug in a wrong forum? I thought that here is the right forum for asking question about RPi.

The bug is serious, but when you ignore it here, people trying to ask somewhere else.
DirkS wrote:Well, AFAICS from the relevant activity here on the forum that's overstating the situation quite dramatically.
Maybe because if someone find weakness in RPi you're ignore them?

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:18 pm

wcale wrote:So you're suggesting me that I'm asking about this bug in a wrong forum? I thought that here is the right forum for asking question about RPi.

The bug is serious, but when you ignore it here, people trying to ask somewhere else.
DirkS wrote:Well, AFAICS from the relevant activity here on the forum that's overstating the situation quite dramatically.
Maybe because if someone find weakness in RPi you're ignore them?
If I find a bug I report it where I think it has the best chance of being addressed.
For RasPi that's here on the forum or, depending on the problem, on one of the RPF github repositories.
You state that 'many users' have the problem and reported. Well, apparently it wasn't here.
And, yes, there apparently there were some reports here on the forum and it seems they were not picked up.

So you were doing the right thing to report it here; it gives you the best chance of being heard and maybe get it fixed at some point.
But I *do* think you're overstating the importance, impact, etc of the issue.

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:28 pm

This "lack of feature" is not a bug.

How many commercial set top boxes, DVRs, satellite receivers etc. with HDMI output have integral brightness/contrast controls?

Your (three) links consist of one unrelated question and two unanswered forum threads. Both of the threads related to Raspberry Pi do not specify the model of LCD that they are using - one specifies it is via a HDMI-VGA adapter which gets even more asinine when you consider conversion levels, etc.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:43 pm

This isn't the show "I want to have everything and I'm entitled to it because I have paid 35$"

You joined this forum today just to complain about the "2nd important function", which 4.5 Million users haven't missed until now.

Do you even have a Pi? You never said so and I start to believe you don't have one and just came here for trolling.
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:32 pm

wcale wrote:- Even my alarm clock has brightness control.
Your alarm clock has a very serious bug - it can't display any video from the Pi. I think that you should complain to the manufacturer. :twisted:
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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:54 pm

as was said multiple times, the PI isn't a display device. Brightness controls belong on the display device.
for example your alarm clock example is actually a display device, and therefore it has a brightness control. In the (unlikely) event there existed a controlling device (time server?) for the alarm clock, I doubt IT had brightness controls to control the alarm clock's brightness, as that is a job better done by the display device (the alarm clock).

All the "examples" you gave either were display devices, or were devices with a built in display.
windows is a bit of a special case because it has to cater for the fact it could be installed on a laptop, with no other mechanism to control brightness.

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Re: No Brightness. Pi reficient as multimedia? Or design def

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:29 am

DirkS wrote:If I find a bug I report it where I think it has the best chance of being addressed.
For RasPi that's here on the forum or, depending on the problem, on one of the RPF github repositories.
You state that 'many users' have the problem and reported. Well, apparently it wasn't here.
And, yes, there apparently there were some reports here on the forum and it seems they were not picked up.
So you were doing the right thing to report it here; it gives you the best chance of being heard and maybe get it fixed at some point.
But I *do* think you're overstating the import_ance, impact, etc of the issue.
So it here is the right forum, then why you criticise my links, where people asking about the same thing in right forum?

jdb wrote:This "lack of feature" is not a bug.
When in all of the operating systems there is brightness control and in original Linux that functionality exists and here i got error message, when I'm trying to change brightness, then it is a bug.
jdb wrote:How many commercial set top boxes, DVRs, satellite receivers etc. with HDMI output have integral brightness/contrast controls?
Ok, so tell me then, when you got an error message changing i.e. volume level there still be no bug in according to your "there is no bug" definition?
jdb wrote:Your (three) links consist of one unrelated question and two unanswered forum threads. Both of the threads related to Raspberry Pi do not specify the model of LCD that they are using - one specifies it is via a HDMI-VGA adapter which gets even more asinine when you consider conversion levels, etc.
What the matter is LCD model? I gave you HDMI communication channel.
gkreidl wrote:This isn't the show "I want to have everything and I'm entitled to it because I have paid 35$"
It is not complaining about irrelevat function, but about serious bug where many people have the same problem and they are ignored.
gkreidl wrote:You joined this forum today just to complain about the "2nd important function", which 4.5 Million users haven't missed until now.
Most important to you is the time when I'm joined to this forum or the bug i RPi?
gkreidl wrote:Do you even have a Pi? You never said so and I start to believe you don't have one and just came here for trolling.
You're some kind of a fairy?
Jednorozec wrote:Your alarm clock has a very serious bug - it can't display any video from the Pi. I think that you should complain to the manufacturer. :twisted:
Wypad z takimi tekstami. Mądrzyj się gdzie indziej cwaniaku.

mahjongg wrote:as was said multiple times, the PI isn't a display device. Brightness controls belong on the display device.
You have absolutley not right!
Linux is not a display device and has that functionality, Windows also. We're speak here about error messages in i.e. xrandr and other apps, where that functionality should be working.
mahjongg wrote:All the "examples" you gave either were display devices, or were devices with a built in display.
windows is a bit of a special case because it has to cater for the fact it could be installed on a laptop, with no other mechanism to control brightness.
And what about Linux, why you're miss that?
As I'm mentioned above - there is functionality in HDMI specification (not laptop/alarm clock/LCD...) exactly for screen control parameters through HDMI port. That's all.
So when everyone who tried to change some of these parameters got the error messages, then i call it a bug.
The bug is serious, because it is in the screen control functionality in many of applications and it affects to display quality and functionality.

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