stiopczyk1981
Posts: 10
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:26 pm

Thank you for all answers , tips and clues.
According to all responses it seems that the topic is not so simple and there are some conditions which need to be met to keep raspi lets say "stable".

1) Some of you mentioned that my GOODRAM microSDHC 32GB CL10 ( bought from Raspberry Pi Approved Reseller ) is not good.
Let me buy microSDXC. Let's see if it would solve the problem.

2) Recommended Power supply 5.1V - 3A. Got it already.

3) Devices connected to Raspberry PI.
In my case I have only one HDD connected : WD Elements 2621 2TB. The disk is powered by RasPI via USB3.

4)
drgeoff wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 am
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:18 pm
I always execute "shutdown -h now" instead of reboot or unplug power cord. :)
Yes but are you waiting long enough for that to complete before pulling the power plug? When the green LED has flashed regularly 10 times you can safely remove power.
This is interesting. I'm in 99% sure that after "shutdown -h now" I see only red LED flashes constantly.


5)
Nevertheless some of you confirmed that NAS solution works fine so I see light in the tunnel. There is a hope :D

drgeoff
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:31 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:26 pm
I'm in 99% sure that after "shutdown -h now" I see only red LED flashes constantly.
The red LED should never flash.
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davidcoton
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:34 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:26 pm
In my case I have only one HDD connected : WD Elements 2621 2TB. The disk is powered by RasPI via USB3.
Does it have a power (or current) consumption marked on the device? I could not find the information on the WD website, but the Pi can only provide 1A2 to all USB peripherals combined.
I'm in 99% sure that after "shutdown -h now" I see only red LED flashes constantly.
A flashing red LED indicates a power problem. The red LED should be on and remain on all the time power is connected.
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stiopczyk1981
Posts: 10
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:52 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:34 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:26 pm
In my case I have only one HDD connected : WD Elements 2621 2TB. The disk is powered by RasPI via USB3.
Does it have a power (or current) consumption marked on the device? I could not find the information on the WD website, but the Pi can only provide 1A2 to all USB peripherals combined.

Unfortunatelly there is no information about power consumption on that device.
So it would be better to connect the disk via UBS active hub instead of direct connection ?
I'm in 99% sure that after "shutdown -h now" I see only red LED flashes constantly.
A flashing red LED indicates a power problem. The red LED should be on and remain on all the time power is connected.
My bad. This is not a flashing (blinking ) but the red LED is on constantly.

Cloud1
Posts: 44
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:55 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:26 pm
Thank you for all answers , tips and clues.
According to all responses it seems that the topic is not so simple and there are some conditions which need to be met to keep raspi lets say "stable".

1) Some of you mentioned that my GOODRAM microSDHC 32GB CL10 ( bought from Raspberry Pi Approved Reseller ) is not good.
Let me buy microSDXC. Let's see if it would solve the problem.

2) Recommended Power supply 5.1V - 3A. Got it already.

3) Devices connected to Raspberry PI.
In my case I have only one HDD connected : WD Elements 2621 2TB. The disk is powered by RasPI via USB3.

4)
drgeoff wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 am
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:18 pm
I always execute "shutdown -h now" instead of reboot or unplug power cord. :)
Yes but are you waiting long enough for that to complete before pulling the power plug? When the green LED has flashed regularly 10 times you can safely remove power.
This is interesting. I'm in 99% sure that after "shutdown -h now" I see only red LED flashes constantly.


5)
Nevertheless some of you confirmed that NAS solution works fine so I see light in the tunnel. There is a hope :D
Here is a link to a drive hooked up to a Pi4, If it is the same as yours, indications suggest the Pi can drive it.
there are images showing the current draw, while playing a 22GB video.
https://community.wd.com/t/my-passport- ... w/165894/6 , just noticed, its a wd caviar drive the OP has.
but will leave this link in the event someone else is using a wd passport hdd.
Last edited by Cloud1 on Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gordon77
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:04 pm
Hi Jamesh,
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:57 pm
Do you have anything else plugged in?
I have plugged in only HDD WD Caviar 2TB via USB 3.
My SD card is: GOODRAM microSDHC 32GB CL10.
You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?

Cloud1
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:23 pm

gordon77 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:04 pm
Hi Jamesh,
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:57 pm
Do you have anything else plugged in?
I have plugged in only HDD WD Caviar 2TB via USB 3.
My SD card is: GOODRAM microSDHC 32GB CL10.
You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?
IF this is the drive the OP referres to he may be in trouble, look at the current draw for this western digital caviar green hdd,
its at the bottom of the page.
https://www.storagereview.com/review/we ... w-wd20ears

stiopczyk1981
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:28 pm

gordon77 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:04 pm
Hi Jamesh,
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:57 pm
Do you have anything else plugged in?
I have plugged in only HDD WD Caviar 2TB via USB 3.
My SD card is: GOODRAM microSDHC 32GB CL10.
d
You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?
Maybe I used wrong phrase. "Recommended sdcard" means the sdcard sell by approved Raspberry reseller and marked as "Dedicated to Raspberry PI 4B"
If you are new in the Raspi topics "dedicated " means that the card is OK and you can use it.
In this thread I find out that there is a huge difference between sdcard in terms of Raspberry PI.

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thagrol
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:29 pm

Cloud1 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:23 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:04 pm
Hi Jamesh,



I have plugged in only HDD WD Caviar 2TB via USB 3.
My SD card is: GOODRAM microSDHC 32GB CL10.
You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?
IF this is the drive the OP referres to he may be in trouble, look at the current draw for this western digital caviar green hdd,
its at the bottom of the page.
https://www.storagereview.com/review/we ... w-wd20ears
That's a 3.5" drive. Which means it requires 12v as well as 5v. Which means it cannot be bus powered. So not comparable to a 2.5" USB 3 connected drive.
I'm a volunteer. Take me for granted or abuse my support and I will walk away

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FTrevorGowen
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:02 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:28 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm
You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?
...
Maybe I used wrong phrase. "Recommended sdcard" means the sdcard sell by approved Raspberry reseller and marked as "Dedicated to Raspberry PI 4B"
If you are new in the Raspi topics "dedicated " means that the card is OK and you can use it.
In this thread I find out that there is a huge difference between sdcard in terms of Raspberry PI.
O.O.C. which "approved" reseller (where are you)? A.F.A.I.K (historically) cards supplied to (fully) approved resellers** are/have been SanDisk or Panasonic types. Some "third party" resellers may provide their own choice of uSD card and/or also a power supply of similar spec. to the official ones. To me "dedicated" simply means that any software/O.S. pre-loaded to the uSD card is suitable only for a Raspberry Pi.
Trev.
** such as those linked to here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, 2xB2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B, B+, and a A+) but Buster on the P3B+, P4B's & P400. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

stiopczyk1981
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 pm

FTrevorGowen wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:02 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:28 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm
You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?
...
Maybe I used wrong phrase. "Recommended sdcard" means the sdcard sell by approved Raspberry reseller and marked as "Dedicated to Raspberry PI 4B"
If you are new in the Raspi topics "dedicated " means that the card is OK and you can use it.
In this thread I find out that there is a huge difference between sdcard in terms of Raspberry PI.
O.O.C. which "approved" reseller (where are you)? A.F.A.I.K (historically) cards supplied to (fully) approved resellers** are/have been SanDisk or Panasonic types. Some "third party" resellers may provide their own choice of uSD card and/or also a power supply of similar spec. to the official ones. To me "dedicated" simply means that any software/O.S. pre-loaded to the uSD card is suitable only for a Raspberry Pi.
Trev.
** such as those linked to here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/
Reseller I mean company which sells RaspberryPi equipment. For Poland Raspbery recommends for example Botland:

https://botland.store/1022-raspberry-pi-4b-memory-cards

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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:46 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 pm
FTrevorGowen wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:02 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:28 pm


Maybe I used wrong phrase. "Recommended sdcard" means the sdcard sell by approved Raspberry reseller and marked as "Dedicated to Raspberry PI 4B"
If you are new in the Raspi topics "dedicated " means that the card is OK and you can use it.
In this thread I find out that there is a huge difference between sdcard in terms of Raspberry PI.
O.O.C. which "approved" reseller (where are you)? A.F.A.I.K (historically) cards supplied to (fully) approved resellers** are/have been SanDisk or Panasonic types. Some "third party" resellers may provide their own choice of uSD card and/or also a power supply of similar spec. to the official ones. To me "dedicated" simply means that any software/O.S. pre-loaded to the uSD card is suitable only for a Raspberry Pi.
Trev.
** such as those linked to here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/
Reseller I mean company which sells RaspberryPi equipment. For Poland Raspbery recommends for example Botland:

https://botland.store/1022-raspberry-pi-4b-memory-cards
Interesting, but note that most of the cards they offer are SanDisk and two are Panasonic. Did you ever/Can you at some point run the "agnostics" program on your GOODRAM card (or is it completely dead - I'm too far down this thread to remember :? )
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, 2xB2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B, B+, and a A+) but Buster on the P3B+, P4B's & P400. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

Cloud1
Posts: 44
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:50 pm

thagrol wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:29 pm
Cloud1 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:23 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:14 pm


You said this was the 'recommended sdcard', where was it recommended ? Or did you just mean 32GB cl10 was recommended?
IF this is the drive the OP referres to he may be in trouble, look at the current draw for this western digital caviar green hdd,
its at the bottom of the page.
https://www.storagereview.com/review/we ... w-wd20ears
That's a 3.5" drive. Which means it requires 12v as well as 5v. Which means it cannot be bus powered. So not comparable to a 2.5" USB 3 connected drive.
Yes, I have no idea of what exactly the OP is using, other than he said it was a wd caviar 2GB, but in the off chance he was
using this or someone else was contemplating it, I took the chance to post the link in the hope of preventing someone hitching
one up to a Pi.

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bensimmo
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:06 pm

FTrevorGowen wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:46 pm
stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:37 pm
FTrevorGowen wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:02 pm

O.O.C. which "approved" reseller (where are you)? A.F.A.I.K (historically) cards supplied to (fully) approved resellers** are/have been SanDisk or Panasonic types. Some "third party" resellers may provide their own choice of uSD card and/or also a power supply of similar spec. to the official ones. To me "dedicated" simply means that any software/O.S. pre-loaded to the uSD card is suitable only for a Raspberry Pi.
Trev.
** such as those linked to here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/
Reseller I mean company which sells RaspberryPi equipment. For Poland Raspbery recommends for example Botland:

https://botland.store/1022-raspberry-pi-4b-memory-cards
Interesting, but note that most of the cards they offer are SanDisk and two are Panasonic. Did you ever/Can you at some point run the "agnostics" program on your GOODRAM card (or is it completely dead - I'm too far down this thread to remember :? )
Trev.
It is a Polish companies card, made in Poland, in fact the only European memory module maker and reviews quite nicely as a general SD card.

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pasman1
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:12 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:26 pm
3) Devices connected to Raspberry PI.
In my case I have only one HDD connected : WD Elements 2621 2TB. The disk is powered by RasPI via USB3.
Try to connect this disk with active usb hub.
My WD Elements 1,5 TB has power consumption 1,7A at startup.
Pi4 Linux raspberrypi 5.10.17-v8+

stiopczyk1981
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:40 am

pasman1 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:12 pm
Try to connect this disk with active usb hub.
My WD Elements 1,5 TB has power consumption 1,7A at startup.
Interesting. Can you tell me how did you measure it ? Are the any devices which I can connect between Raspi and PSU to check power consumption during startup/runtime ?

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davidcoton
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:48 am

You can get plug-in USB power monitors, either USB-A or USB-C. You really want to check the current to the drive itself (USB-A). If it reaches 1A2, that is a problem. However, you might not see the peak on a meter -- more reliable is to use an oscilloscope to measure the USB voltage. Any dips below 4V75 indicate a problem.

The supply voltage to the Pi may also be a problem, but that is less likely.
Have you read the label on the HDD for any information on current consumption? That is usually easier than trying to measure things.
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stiopczyk1981
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:56 am

davidcoton wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:48 am
You can get plug-in USB power monitors, either USB-A or USB-C. You really want to check the current to the drive itself (USB-A). If it reaches 1A2, that is a problem. However, you might not see the peak on a meter -- more reliable is to use an oscilloscope to measure the USB voltage. Any dips below 4V75 indicate a problem.

The supply voltage to the Pi may also be a problem, but that is less likely.
Have you read the label on the HDD for any information on current consumption? That is usually easier than trying to measure things.
Thanks. Unfortunatelly my HDD has no information about power cosumption. I checked on device directly , vendor page and device's manual. No information :(

I heard that Raspberry PI might have a problem with two HDD connected but never heard about my scenario (single drive ).

For me it's very strange situation that Raspberry Pi might have a problem with single external HDD connected. Really ? I don't get it.

bjtheone
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:12 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:56 am
I heard that Raspberry PI might have a problem with two HDD connected but never heard about my scenario (single drive ).

For me it's very strange situation that Raspberry Pi might have a problem with single external HDD connected. Really ? I don't get it.
Totally depends on power consumption, not number of drives. The issue is likely the spin up current, which is going to be much higher than steady state. It can also be an issue with a sick drive when the bearings start to fail and it becomes much harder to spin up. Motors at stall pull way more current.

The Pi has no issues with drives (SSD or HD) with more moderate power demands.

Only way you are going to be able to measure the instantaneous current is with a scope. A DVM is not going to be fast enough to measure the spike.

As already noted, an easy fix if the drive is not failing, is to supply external power to the drive.

stiopczyk1981
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:43 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:12 pm
As already noted, an easy fix if the drive is not failing, is to supply external power to the drive.
Yeah. The best solution would be for example buying USB active hub and plug the HDD there.

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thagrol
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Re: Raspberry Pi only for "FUN" ?

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:09 pm

stiopczyk1981 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:43 pm
bjtheone wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:12 pm
As already noted, an easy fix if the drive is not failing, is to supply external power to the drive.
Yeah. The best solution would be for example buying USB active hub and plug the HDD there.
Make sure you get one that doesn't backfeed the Pi. That can cause problems, up to and including a 4B's PMIC refusing to start.
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All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
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