fruitoftheloom
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 5:29 am

alik55 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:48 am
The text at the top of the images of the boards is different, so it is clearly different batches.

Those 250 units were sourced within the last 5 months and from more than one distributor too. What that datapoint shows is that in the sample size of 250 units sourced during the last 5 months the observed defect rate was close to 1%. It does not say anything about the millions produced in the years past.

The quality is observed to be lousy today and bringing the quality issue to light may help change the future, but will not change the past.

Have you contacted Raspberry Pi Trading ?

They are more likely to respond via email than on a public forum, because you are not the first to have mentioned quality.
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KeithMck
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 7:57 am

Most of my purchases have been good, but I've had QC issues too lately, a dead mouse & a poor keyboard on a RPi400, (like a lot of buyers), maybe there is a QC problem(?). :|

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 8:02 am

KeithMck wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:57 am
Most of my purchases have been good, but I've had QC issues too lately, a dead mouse & a poor keyboard on a RPi400, (like a lot of buyers), maybe there is a QC problem(?). :|

Whilst I am not blindly defending anyone, it does seem the Pandemic has affected all walks of life, maybe universally we should lower our expectations. Regards RPT Hardware at least it can be returned under warranty to the Authorised Re-Seller.
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 10:22 am

lurk101 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:25 am
ejolson wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:16 pm
... my impression with automobiles has been that the defect rate has been going up with all the additional electronics included.
2003, 2006, and 2007 Toyotas went way past warranty with 0 defects and are still road worthy. Not loaded with gizmos like today, but had digital engine management. Where do you go from zero except up? It's not just the added electronics...
And then in 2008/9 they put faulty software in them - the infamous sticking accelerator problem that caused many deaths.
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 12:48 pm

All raspberry PI's are tested in an automated test rig, and no RPI will leave the factory if it fails any of the tests. So its not true that only a few in a batch are tested, they are ALL tested!

I'm not sure ethernet connectivity is included in the test though, but it might, and one ethernet pin not connected might only be an issue if you use POE. Also the not perfect soldering of pin 5 of the GPIO doesn't actually mean there is a defect, it still seems to me that the GPIO pin is electrically connected. RPI's are also optically checked, but the tester might not catch all errors.

Failure rates, according to some blog post https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/sony-t ... ete-lomas/ failures are extremely low, nowhere near 1% closer to one in a million. [Liz interjects: I visited Sony last week, and was told that fewer than 20 Pis have ended up in the “Fail” box since Sony started manufacture. Not bad!] But yeah, shit happens if you are unlucky. You have guarantee on your PI's, so if you catch a (soldering) problem you can return the PI to the reseller under guarantee.

gordon77
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 1:16 pm

Thanks, it's great to know how they are tested. The OP didn't actually say they didn't work.

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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 1:32 pm

mwrich4 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 10:00 pm
IIRC, RPT claimed boards get a functionality check on a bed of nails. Again, that's a LOT of boards so maybe those are also spot checks.
mahjongg wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:48 pm
All raspberry PI's are tested in an automated test rig, and no RPI will leave the factory if it fails any of the tests. So its not true that only a few in a batch are tested, they are ALL tested!
is the testing involving inserting a usb3 plug into the socket? or just a bed of nails checking testpoints near the bad solder joint?

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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 1:46 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:48 pm
All raspberry PI's are tested in an automated test rig, and no RPI will leave the factory if it fails any of the tests. So its not true that only a few in a batch are tested, they are ALL tested!
Thanks for the correction. I'm a little surprised but I guess with automated test rigs it's in the order of seconds per board.
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 1:52 pm

thagrol wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:46 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:48 pm
All raspberry PI's are tested in an automated test rig, and no RPI will leave the factory if it fails any of the tests. So its not true that only a few in a batch are tested, they are ALL tested!
Thanks for the correction. I'm a little surprised but I guess with automated test rigs it's in the order of seconds per board.

This was 8 years ago, so the OP though frustrated is a little OTT:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/electr ... ory-video/
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alik55
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 3:14 pm

The boards in question did fail to perform in our own functional tests. I would think both issues could be caught by optical inspection.

The video from 8 years ago says nothing about today.

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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 3:32 pm

alik55 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:14 pm
The boards in question did fail to perform in our own functional tests. I would think both issues could be caught by optical inspection.
The board you pictured with a partially solder filled pin-to-through-plated-hole joint actually failed your functional test? How so?
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 3:51 pm

It failed by Linux not being able to communicate on that pin with the connected peripheral. The solder may not have been touching the pin.

The other board failed the USB3 check - the attached drive was connected as USB2 - no wonder as the pin was bent and never went into the through-hole.

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Please Improve Factory QA

Sun May 09, 2021 5:42 pm

alik55 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:51 pm
It failed by Linux not being able to communicate on that pin with the connected peripheral. The solder may not have been touching the pin.

The other board failed the USB3 check - the attached drive was connected as USB2 - no wonder as the pin was bent and never went into the through-hole.
It would appear full electrical connection of USB3 sockets and GPIO headers as well as the LED in my Pi were not detected by the automated testing procedure. While not as exciting as the new automobile my parents bought with a horn that turned on when the sun shined on the steering wheel, could the testing be improved?

I recall reports about USB3 sockets being unreliable on the Pi 4B. Maybe those had bent pins that never went through the hole either. This could also explain some of the intermittent problems where drives on a Pi NAS disconnect over night.

Sometimes the moderators object when the title of a thread is changed; however, I think Please Improve Factory QA would be a more constructive title.

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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Mon May 10, 2021 1:30 am

I have a little experience in this area - ie PCB manufacture, I offer my opinion fwiw.

Firstly this is a serious manufacturing issue - defective assembly that made it through electrical testing. Given the manufacturing quantities and the complexity of the product it is reasonable to expect this might happen occasionally but the people manufacturing the product would be truly horrified this has occurred. The faulty product needs to get back to them.

The best and almost always the only way to do this is to return the product to your supplier, who in turn pushes it back through the supply chain ultimately to the manufacturer in question. Note that multiple manufacturers build this product. If your supplier is unwilling to accept the return then you need to find a better supplier.

A manufacturing engineer is concerned only with the specific problems at their own plant, this being measured by the size of their reject bit. The last person they want to hear from is the design engineer - or from a discussion group.

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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Mon May 10, 2021 9:42 am

I've passed this thread on to manufacture.

AFAIK, every Pi is electrically tested, so I would expect them to leave the Sony factory in a working state, but I don't know how the USB connections are tested, whether it's a bed of nails or a plug in.

A 1% failure rate in the field sounds very odd, so we will investigate.
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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 am

Heater wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 7:43 pm
Personally of the many Pi I have bought not one had been a dud.
The older Pi models don't seem to have those soldering issues. How many Pi4s did you buy?

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Re: Really lousy RPI quality and no factory QA

Mon May 10, 2021 4:05 pm

To the OP.

Can you email info@raspberrypi.com, FAO James Hughes, with a quick description of the issue, along with details of the company and where you are (since returns etc depend on those things). We'll get back to you once we have those details.
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