kerry_s
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:49 am

ThijsDeschildre wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:29 am
I wonder why video playback on Raspbian is so crappy. It's the standard OS for the Pi, so it doesn't make much sense.
i don't think it's crappy.
to me it's the user expectation that is all wrong, if you wanted high end video, you should have got something for video. a firetv stick can do great video for the same price, if what you want is video/movies/music. etc....

for me, my rpi 4 4gb works great as a desktop setup. i browse the web, check my mail, practice writing code/scripts, i even watch movies & tv, sometimes i even do 2 things at once.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:08 pm

ThijsDeschildre wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:29 am
I wonder why video playback on Raspbian is so crappy. It's the standard OS for the Pi, so it doesn't make much sense.
Because watching videos is not the aim of the Raspberry Pi Foundation. It's low priority compared to other bugs and updates that require attention.
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pagenotfound
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 am

I'm puzzled that nine months after the release of the Pi 4 Libreelec is still better at this than Raspbian. I guess we're now at the point where the Pi 4 was originally planned to be released so it's about time.

Rascas
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 am

pagenotfound wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 am
I'm puzzled that nine months after the release of the Pi 4 Libreelec is still better at this than Raspbian. I guess we're now at the point where the Pi 4 was originally planned to be released so it's about time.
LibreELEC is JEOS (just enough OS) a minimum OS with only the needed to run Kodi. That's just Kodi, you cannot install and run a Desktop, run VLC or any other media player, run Chromium or any other browser, etc, etc.

If you take Raspbian Lite, install Kodi and configure it right (see me my guide about Kodi, that's not that hard), remove the stuff that you don't need for Kodi, you end up with something very close to LibreELEC. The performance is pretty much the same.

jamesh
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 am

pagenotfound wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 am
I'm puzzled that nine months after the release of the Pi 4 Libreelec is still better at this than Raspbian. I guess we're now at the point where the Pi 4 was originally planned to be released so it's about time.
LibreElec caters for the majority of the playback market, the rest is Chrome/browser based, or VLC. And we have a contractor working on those. VLC has received a big update that make it work much better, and Chrome has had some fixes, with more to come IIRC.

Getting decent video is difficult, especially in the FKMS/KMS world. Unlike OMXPlayer where you can simply get the chip to overlay another video over the top of the current display, you cannot do that with in window video. So there are a LOT of copies, format translation etc having to be done to get from a compressed bitstream to getting it on the display. Making that efficient, especially when dealing with the horror that is Chrome, is a time consuming process. Ands of course, the underlying Mesa drivers which handle some of the path are also under development.

Edit: And here is something else to think about. Even the Pi4 is behind the curve when it comes to performance compared to desktops of probably 4 or 5 years ago. And that long ago was pretty much the start of the 1080p era, with no sign of HEVC for example. So the fact that the Pi4 can playback HEVC 4k and even 1080p60 is remarkable, but it also shows how much effort has to go in to make a slower machine like the Pi capable of doing these modern things - until now, people just threw bigger CPU's and faster memory at the task. Now we need to optimise. And that never comes quickly.
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gkreidl
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:51 pm

I'm watching local and web video up to 1080p60 almost since day one of my first Rpi B. You just have to know how to do it.

Browsers are the worst video players.
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dustnbone
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:43 pm

The good performance of LibreELEC on the Pi4 isn't a random happening either.

It took some work by a team of people with that specific goal to make it happen.

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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 pm

gkreidl wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:51 pm
Browsers are the worst video players.
On Pi4 VLC and Kodi aren't any better. Not 4k either which might be understandable but lo res DVD still jerky and MTS (#1 most common STB container) totally unwatchable. I thought they were complainers here referring to slide show til trying it myself.

Mostly using 3b+ for now because of that and some USB3 and WIFI problems. It's been almost a year since promises to fix. Hopefully these are software issues and not hardware bugs as I'm heavily invested in Pi4.

Things do seem to be slowly getting better so I guess Patience Is A Virtue.

ThijsDeschildre
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:20 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 am
And that long ago was pretty much the start of the 1080p era, with no sign of HEVC for example. So the fact that the Pi4 can playback HEVC 4k and even 1080p60 is remarkable, but it also shows how much effort has to go in to make a slower machine like the Pi capable of doing these modern things - until now, people just threw bigger CPU's and faster memory at the task. Now we need to optimise. And that never comes quickly.
Thanks for chiming in, and the insight. Since I started tinkering with the RPi4, I learned how 4K playback is not trivial at all. When it comes to SBC it doesn't seem there's any board out there that offers more performance at an attractive price point, and I certainly wouldn't hope much for anything with better software than the RPi. I would have to get a NUC or anything like it, so I can run Linux. My TV is "smart", it can play movies and music from my NAS, but it allows for very limited flexibility and support. I like the RPi because of the flexibility and widespread support.

gkreidl
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:01 am

emma1997 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 pm
gkreidl wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:51 pm
Browsers are the worst video players.
On Pi4 VLC and Kodi aren't any better. Not 4k either which might be understandable but lo res DVD still jerky and MTS (#1 most common STB container) totally unwatchable. I thought they were complainers here referring to slide show til trying it myself.

Mostly using 3b+ for now because of that and some USB3 and WIFI problems. It's been almost a year since promises to fix. Hopefully these are software issues and not hardware bugs as I'm heavily invested in Pi4.

Things do seem to be slowly getting better so I guess Patience Is A Virtue.
Sorry, but this is simply not true.
I seldom use Kodi and if so, mostly for online content such as DAZN streams. But I have not seen any problems so far.

VLC in full screen mode is perfect (if you use the MMAL X11 splitter).
And there is still omxplayer(GUI), although it is limited to H264 now because of the missing HW codecs. That's something I really miss on the RPi 4. My older RPis play almost anything in perfect quality (except H265) with the additional codec licenses.
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Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
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emma1997
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:59 pm

gkreidl wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:01 am
Sorry, but this is simply not true.
Maybe I should have been more clear and mentioned standard Raspbian Buster installation.

After reading your entire thread on that it was still not obvious to me what MMAL X11 or a 'splitter' is. Lots of outdated and conflicting info. Half hour Googling didn't help much either. Admittedly my fault not having exceptional IQ or years of experience with Linux internals so some hints would be appreciated.

Is there a link to basic recipe for installing that don't involve recompiling or takes less than an hour to learn?

gkreidl
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:26 am

emma1997 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:59 pm

Maybe I should have been more clear and mentioned standard Raspbian Buster installation.

After reading your entire thread on that it was still not obvious to me what MMAL X11 or a 'splitter' is. Lots of outdated and conflicting info. Half hour Googling didn't help much either. Admittedly my fault not having exceptional IQ or years of experience with Linux internals so some hints would be appreciated.

Is there a link to basic recipe for installing that don't involve recompiling or takes less than an hour to learn?
"MMAL x11 splitter for Raspberry Pi" is one of the video output modes of VLC (on the RPi). If you would ever have tried to configure VLC, you woukd have seen it (Settings, Video).

It means: Render into X11 window while running in window mode and switch to overlay mode (similar to omxplayer) when running in full screen mode.

Although rendering into X11 window is more efficient in VLC than in Chromium, you are still loosing a number of frames when playing a 1080p60 video in window mode, but it will run prefectly when switching to full screen mode.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

ThijsDeschildre
Posts: 15
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Re: RPi4 video performance

Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:54 pm

gkreidl wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:26 am
"MMAL x11 splitter for Raspberry Pi" is one of the video output modes of VLC (on the RPi). If you would ever have tried to configure VLC, you woukd have seen it (Settings, Video).

It means: Render into X11 window while running in window mode and switch to overlay mode (similar to omxplayer) when running in full screen mode.

Although rendering into X11 window is more efficient in VLC than in Chromium, you are still loosing a number of frames when playing a 1080p60 video in window mode, but it will run prefectly when switching to full screen mode.
okay, that's interesting. I've checked the VLC video settings, but have no clue what to expect from them.
I tried googling vlc + mmal but I mostly find forum threads discussing it. you have to dig around quite a bit, for just one of the countless options (and afaik most video renderers work worse than the standard option)

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