AnneCreek
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:51 pm

Raspbian or what ? ( semi rant)

Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 pm

Risking flaming or worse...
After few months playing with Raspbian OS , mainly via SSH, I am puzzled by few things not behaving
exactly what I expected.
The latest is loss of internet access after "Stretch update / upgrade".
Peculiar behaviour of wpa_cli / raspi-config ( posted elsewhere).
I am back to Jessie.

I was hoping to use RPi Zero as controller for an "antenna analyser", but I need to have reliable OS with working WiFi which so far has been questionable.

Going from Jessie to Stretch should have been to "Stinky Pete" instead.

So - what is the alternative to Raspbian?

I basically need reliable access to GPIO.
I use Ubuntu running my PC.

Anybody else has comments on using Ubuntu running Rpi?

I did try Mate and it did not get off the ground...

Heater
Posts: 10216
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:10 pm

AnneCreek,

I have been using Raspbian Stretch on the Pi since it was released. Also Debian Stretch on all my Pi, PC's and cloud servers. It works very well and has been reliable.

Now, there may have been some changes to the way things are configured in Stretch and hence some tweaks you have to do. I don't recall what they might have been so that cannot have been difficult.

If you were to state exactly what the issue is, for example are you using ethernet or WiFi and how does it fail, then most likely someone could advise how to fix it.

Jumping to some other distro will not help much, they all have these kind of annoyances from time to time.

grininmonkey
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:44 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:13 am

Because I use Arch Linux as my main OS on my tower and laptop..... I went thru the "Exercise" of trying ArchArm on a Pi and the install was easy enough, but found it to be a bit of a challenge here and there to do certain things which Raspian is built for... in terms of doing "Pi stuff"

Form linux perspective.... Arch spoils you.. as in.. as soon as there is an update... the repo has it (Mostly)... unlike ubuntu family where a lot (and I mean almost everything) is slowly updated in the repo and available when updated (a good example is vim where till this day the available stable on apt is 8.0.0197 ... where as 8.1.0374-1 was available in Arch two days after it was released upstream).....

But to my point... if your just going to do mini server/linuxy stuff... then ArchArm (excluding Windows IoT) would really be the only other choice that is a choice not in the same Ubuntu family... as in different kernel and different repo and community.... now that's in terms of a distro that is not specific for a function like entertainment center etc and has a large community and repo/support....

But if your really going to use the GPIO's, the camera connection, display port for 7" display.... basically "Pi Stuff"... then stick with Raspian...

But that's just my opinion based on my limited experimentation on the Pi hardware.

By the way... for the minimalist..... I loaded Raspian Lite and ArchArm on a Pi Zero W... just to see if there was much "edge" to minimum mem usage etc... and there wasn't much to be seen in my experimentation, others might have had different results.

All my Pi's have one form or the other of Raspian now... and their happy ;-)

PhatFil
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:55 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:27 am

fwiw i am running 3x headess pis 1x r-pi3b and 2 x r-pi0w all running debian/raspbian stretch..
Although im running headless ive installed the full desktop version and also use vnc for a gui experience on occasion though mainly interface via ssh and the server web interfaces hosted on each Pi.

all 3 are reliable and stable with only s/w used installed over the full system base.

My first Pi setup on the Pi3b was quite a messy system with everything i read about that looked fairly interesting installed to play with, and that was not a reliable system with its networking falling over after a few days requiering a regular reset. However once a defined set of useful s/w had been compiled and a fresh write of the sd card with only the required s/w installed (no instances of conflict) all reliability issues disappeared,

if your system is unreliable i would suggest a fresh install with only the s/w your system uses installed should provide you with a stable system. And if not checking logs for errors and warnings should lead you to any issues..

AnneCreek
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:01 am

PhatFil wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:27 am
fwiw i am running 3x headess pis 1x r-pi3b and 2 x r-pi0w all running debian/raspbian stretch..
Although im running headless ive installed the full desktop version and also use vnc for a gui experience on occasion though mainly interface via ssh and the server web interfaces hosted on each Pi.

all 3 are reliable and stable with only s/w used installed over the full system base.

My first Pi setup on the Pi3b was quite a messy system with everything i read about that looked fairly interesting installed to play with, and that was not a reliable system with its networking falling over after a few days requiering a regular reset. However once a defined set of useful s/w had been compiled and a fresh write of the sd card with only the required s/w installed (no instances of conflict) all reliability issues disappeared,

if your system is unreliable i would suggest a fresh install with only the s/w your system uses installed should provide you with a stable system. And if not checking logs for errors and warnings should lead you to any issues..
if your system is unreliable i would suggest a fresh install with only the s/w your system uses installed should provide you with a stable system. And if not checking logs for errors and warnings should lead you to any issues..

Dear friend,
I was really not going to elaborate on my post. but...

About week ago I started messing with installing WiFI.. Using raspi-config I kept getting " cannot communicate with wpa_supplicant". Posted the problem here and was advised to "do a clean install". So I installed Stretch and managed to run raspi-config WiFi menu just fine. Next day or two I did couple of "update/upgrade".
Couple of days later I tried to run "wpa_gui" and needed some help from internet.
To my dismay _ i had no internet access - strike one.

So I went back to old Jessie...
Continue to play with WiFI only to discover that I can access wpa_supplicant, but only ONCE.
I had to reboot for some other reason and guess what - wpa-cli worked just fine - strike two.

I have rather time-consuming setup to run crosscompiler and cannot see why I have to redo it after each "update / upgrade" from one OS version to another - strike three,

Today I had very clear run of wpa-cli - nice trace etc. but ONLY ONCE! Even after reboot I have to manually enter parameters which should be done automatically...

I am after very simple setup - I need to replace Ethernet wired connection with WiFI so I can eventually crosscompile and run my application using Zero ( WiFi)
I am about 80% done with my own (raspi) - config so I really do not need it .

As long as the OS replacing Raspian has full access to Broadcom I/O hardware I'll be happy camper.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20902
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 am

Raspbian is the best supported OS for the Pi.

This is because its the one we develop on and the one we test on.

If there are particular issues that are not fixed by using a decent power supply, or ensuring your install is up to date, then either ask about them here, or provide a specific bug report in our issues tracker. https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux for OS issues, https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland for ARM side libraries to do with VC4. Issues with applications that are unchanged by us (ie almost all of them) should be reported to the specific project.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

rln
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:43 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact: Website

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:46 am

If you need reliability my Nard project is spot on for you. Tested for long term operation. Excellent for headless mode and has super simple cross-compiling of everything. It makes YOU in control.
http://www.nard.se/
Author of the robust Nard distro http://www.nard.se

hippy
Posts: 4014
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:44 am

AnneCreek wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 pm
So - what is the alternative to Raspian?
Hard to say. If you are having problems with Raspbian Stretch there is no guarantee you won't also have problems with some other distro or OS.

Raspbian Stretch is the recommended distro, the distro most used by the Pi community, the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and developers of the Pi, so it's the one with the best support and the one for you should most likely find help for.

That doesn't mean you will always get the help you need or will find solutions to your problems, and fitness for any particular purpose is generally disclaimed anyway, no matter what you choose.

Only you can determine if an alternative distro or OS works better for you and you will only get a definitive answer by trying those. Most people would have said that what you are doing should work fine and they would probably say the same about alternatives too. That's not proof it will.

You really need to determine what the actual problems are and their cause before looking for solutions to solve those problems.

AnneCreek
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm

OK, i'll say it again.
This post was not met to be "issue solving" post. I know better.
( Alternate OS suggestions are welcome )

However, when one does "update /upgrade" and then has no means to access internet afterwords
how can you say " you need better power supply"?
I wish somebody made a list of these "troubleshooting suggestions".
I do not have time to do that and it would probably offend people anyway.

hippy
Posts: 4014
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:22 pm

AnneCreek wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm
However, when one does "update /upgrade" and then has no means to access internet afterwords how can you say " you need better power supply"?
No one did.

I think you are misreading jamesh's post or taking that out of context.
AnneCreek wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm
I wish somebody made a list of these "troubleshooting suggestions".
Apart from common problems which have a known cause and an easy fix it's not so simple to produce a troubleshooting guide with fixes and solutions for specific, and perhaps previously unknown or not seen, issues.

If it's "tried all that; hasn't fixed it" it requires a more detailed investigation and ruling things out to find what the underlying issue is. Once done that could be noted somewhere other than outside where that was done.

But perhaps no one else has the time to do that either ?

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20902
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:49 pm

AnneCreek wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm
OK, i'll say it again.
This post was not met to be "issue solving" post. I know better.
( Alternate OS suggestions are welcome )

However, when one does "update /upgrade" and then has no means to access internet afterwords
how can you say " you need better power supply"?
I wish somebody made a list of these "troubleshooting suggestions".
I do not have time to do that and it would probably offend people anyway.
1. A huge number of issues are caused by power supply problems, hence they are always mentioned.
2. I've plenty of update/upgraade, and still have a net connection.
3. There is a problems sticky in the troubleshooting forum

If its not in 3. then more detailed infromation is required to fix whatever you issue may be.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5369
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:54 pm

When wifi isn't working, what's the output of these commands?

Code: Select all

rfkill list all
wpa_cli -i wlan0 status
wpa_cli -i wlan0 scan && sleep 5
wpa_cli -i wlan0 scan_results
sudo journalctl -b0 -u dhcpcd
pgrep -a wpa_supplicant

fbe
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:08 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:54 pm

Actually, to answer your original qestion, there are not much alternatives to Raspbian, that run on a Raspberry Pi Zero (or maybe Raspberry Pi Zero WH, as you mentioned WiFi and GPIO). Most other OS require at least a Raspberry Pi2B and won't even boot on a BCM2835 SoC.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 17815
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:59 pm

AnneCreek wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 pm
Risking flaming or worse...
After few months playing with Raspian OS , mainly via SSH, I am puzzled by few things not behaving
exactly what I expected.
The latest is loss of internet access after "Stretch update / upgrade".
Peculiar behaviour of wpa_cli / raspi-config ( posted elsewhere).
I am back to Jessie.

I was hoping to use RPi Zero as controller for an "antenna analyser", but I need to have reliable OS with working WiFi which so far has been questionable.

Going from Jessie to Stretch should have been to "Stinky Pete" instead.

So - what is the alternative to Raspian?

I basically need reliable access to GPIO.
I use Ubuntu running my PC.

Anybody else has comments on using Ubuntu running Rpi?

I did try Mate and it did not get off the ground...

Ubuntu and various Debian based OSes require a RPi 2B or 3B or 3B+


ArchLinux Arm is a lightweight rolling release and is compatible with the RPi Zero and RPi 1 variants:

https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi
Adieu

Heater
Posts: 10216
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:09 pm

AnneCreek,
OK, i'll say it again.
This post was not met to be "issue solving" post. I know better.
Ah sorry, I misunderstood, you do not want help on a help forum. You are just having a rant.

Thank you for saying so, before we waste anymore time trying to help you. Seems you know better so I guess you will get on just fine.

Good luck.

pws
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:16 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:16 pm

AnneCreek wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm
OK, i'll say it again.
This post was not met to be "issue solving" post. I know better.
( Alternate OS suggestions are welcome )

However, when one does "update /upgrade" and then has no means to access internet afterwords
how can you say " you need better power supply"?
I wish somebody made a list of these "troubleshooting suggestions".
I do not have time to do that and it would probably offend people anyway.
Well, then - looks like it just sucks to be you!

AnneCreek
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:11 pm

pws wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:16 pm
AnneCreek wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm
OK, i'll say it again.
This post was not met to be "issue solving" post. I know better.
( Alternate OS suggestions are welcome )

However, when one does "update /upgrade" and then has no means to access internet afterwords
how can you say " you need better power supply"?
I wish somebody made a list of these "troubleshooting suggestions".
I do not have time to do that and it would probably offend people anyway.
Well, then - looks like it just sucks to be you!
...and that is the end of "discussion"....

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20902
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Raspian or what ? ( semi rant)

Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:31 pm

AnneCreek wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:11 pm
pws wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:16 pm
AnneCreek wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 pm
OK, i'll say it again.
This post was not met to be "issue solving" post. I know better.
( Alternate OS suggestions are welcome )

However, when one does "update /upgrade" and then has no means to access internet afterwords
how can you say " you need better power supply"?
I wish somebody made a list of these "troubleshooting suggestions".
I do not have time to do that and it would probably offend people anyway.
Well, then - looks like it just sucks to be you!
...and that is the end of "discussion"....
I suspect that your reluctance to provide any details to allow any sort of investigation in to the problems you are seeing (which I suspect are a setup issue rather anything wrong with Raspian) was the actual end of the discussion.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11074
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: Raspbian or what ? ( semi rant)

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:45 am

+1 to that...

modified some uses of the fake name "raspian", to the real name "raspbian", as I find the use of raspian especially "grating" or should I say "rasping" (LOL). :P


and yes, IMHO it was a real rant, not a "semi rant". :mrgreen:

I get it that if it doesn't work "automagically" it can be frustrating, but please do not resort to antagonising others, try to learn from it.

I have no "afterwords"..... except you reap what you sow :roll:

Return to “General discussion”