skypi
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:48 pm

For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:53 pm

For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

I was suspecting it was the distro that was the problem, could see in temp graphs that it was dropping way below target temps such that the firmware stopped extruding! and bed temp dropped so much that object warped off the plate... how many hundreds of hours wasted because trying to save a few hours!!!! wasted prints... after wasted prints.... though did get some ok prints off the octopi distro, more **** than good!

manual install of octoprint is straightforward following the instructions, I dont need any cam stuff or want port 80 or https... s.t.m. something somewhere in the distro is hogging cycles that are those required for the sending of info at the speed it is consumed....

well that's my opinion... maybe other printers work better, but my self built k8200/3-drag works better with current raspbian with manual installed octoprint....

maybe would even work on an old pi-b (as it used to when I first built printer several years ago), it is working on a pi-3 at the moment. and I did disable wifi and bluetooth.

now feeling comfortable I can spare some cycles to run top over an ssh connection, can see even now octoprint occasionally pops up at 35%+ of a pi3 core though 90% of the time runs at about 1-3% of a pi-3 core.

User avatar
scruss
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact: Website

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:43 am

I've been running Octoprint (installed via octopi) for several years on a 2B, and it's been solid. It drives my Reach 3D very well, with no unexplained failures.
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

skypi
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 am

just observing this first print of a complex (multiple big gap and big overhang) object using manual installed octoprint and it's like, I do not think octopi was even sending the cura 2.x minimum layer time speed travel commands, first I have observed them. whizzing around like a mad thing, like this annoying speedy fly I am trying to hit with my "executioner" fly-taser!

whatever works for you eh! lets say, octopi can print a simple box OK

User avatar
scruss
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact: Website

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:25 am

skypi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 am
whatever works for you eh! lets say, octopi can print a simple box OK
I do a bit more than that … OctoPi is currently handling a vase mode/spiral contour print no problem. I've fed it 12+ hour print jobs. For me, it just works.

Best to complain on the OctoPi/OctoPrint support forum. There's no-one here who can do anything about it
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

achrn
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:22 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:10 am

scruss wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:25 am
skypi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 am
whatever works for you eh! lets say, octopi can print a simple box OK
I do a bit more than that … OctoPi is currently handling a vase mode/spiral contour print no problem. I've fed it 12+ hour print jobs. For me, it just works.
I agree - Octopi just works for me too. Mine does long complex prints reliably on a modified Prusa Mk2.5, with added enclosure plugin handling lights and extra environmental temperature monitoring and psu control plugin switching power for the printer on and off on demand. I monitor print jobs across teh internet so find camera streaming useful. Currently it is running on a Pi3 B+, but it has been on older hardware in the past equally happily.

mikerr
Posts: 2733
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:36 am

Are you using the camera with octoprint ?

Camera preview really slows it down with pi zero, only the pi3 can really handle the camera features.
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

User avatar
bensimmo
Posts: 3474
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:18 am

Since you are using a Pi, have any of you tried using Kilpper with it (uses the pi to do all the hard graft)

https://github.com/KevinOConnor/klipper

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20930
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:30 am

skypi wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:53 pm
For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

I was suspecting it was the distro that was the problem, could see in temp graphs that it was dropping way below target temps such that the firmware stopped extruding! and bed temp dropped so much that object warped off the plate... how many hundreds of hours wasted because trying to save a few hours!!!! wasted prints... after wasted prints.... though did get some ok prints off the octopi distro, more **** than good!

manual install of octoprint is straightforward following the instructions, I dont need any cam stuff or want port 80 or https... s.t.m. something somewhere in the distro is hogging cycles that are those required for the sending of info at the speed it is consumed....

well that's my opinion... maybe other printers work better, but my self built k8200/3-drag works better with current raspbian with manual installed octoprint....

maybe would even work on an old pi-b (as it used to when I first built printer several years ago), it is working on a pi-3 at the moment. and I did disable wifi and bluetooth.

now feeling comfortable I can spare some cycles to run top over an ssh connection, can see even now octoprint occasionally pops up at 35%+ of a pi3 core though 90% of the time runs at about 1-3% of a pi-3 core.
I've removed some obfuscated bad language from this post. We have had to do it on a previous post as well, so please, *do not do it*, it just means moderators have to waste time fixing the posts up.

Not only that, but Octopi is nothing to do with us, so ranting about it here is a waste of time - you need to use the Octopi print forums.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

skypi
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:52 pm

scruss wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:25 am
skypi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 am
whatever works for you eh! lets say, octopi can print a simple box OK
I do a bit more than that … OctoPi is currently handling a vase mode/spiral contour print no problem. I've fed it 12+ hour print jobs. For me, it just works.

Best to complain on the OctoPi/OctoPrint support forum. There's no-one here who can do anything about it
what are you using to slice? could be that cura 2.x is doing some extra stuff beyond capabilities of printer, unfortunately installing cura 15.x on ubuntu 16 only installs cura 2.x

Interested in trying to use the curaengine slicer with octoprint but as can only install cura 2.x cannot create a profile and have not found any cura 15.x example config files that I can modify for my printer. (reckon the config file structure probably changed from 15.x to 2.x)

wasnt complaining just posting a note to say that for me running manually installed octoprint worked better in my configuration. Maybe save someone else some time.

did not think I was being particularly sweary, did not think crap was a word that might "trigger" jamesh eh! probably got tripwires for every time I post eh!

User avatar
scruss
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact: Website

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:01 pm

skypi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:52 pm
what are you using to slice? could be that cura 2.x is doing some extra stuff beyond capabilities of printer, unfortunately installing cura 15.x on ubuntu 16 only installs cura 2.x
Mostly using the recommended curaengine-based Octoprint Slicer plugin. I've built slic3r too, but not bothered to find a suitable config file to get it running.

For complex jobs, I pre-slice in Cura 3.4 on a much faster computer and upload the gcode. I absolutely agree that Cura did some weird things with versioning: Cura 1.5 (the version I learned on) has incompatible configuration files from Cura 2.x, and 2.x in turn incompatible with 3.x

For this reason, OctoPrint's slicer plugin uses curaengine v15.04, the command-line guts of Cura 1.5. It's easy to build. I'm happily running the web gui and the camera on a Raspberry Pi 2B (and not one of the newer 2Bs, either, though it is a v1 camera). I have dedicated this Raspberry Pi to running OctoPrint.
Interested in trying to use the curaengine slicer with octoprint but as can only install cura 2.x cannot create a profile and have not found any cura 15.x example config files that I can modify for my printer. (reckon the config file structure probably changed from 15.x to 2.x)
You might want to try one of these: ipswichmakerspace/3D-printer-Cura-profiles. There are some K8200 config files there. Since the K8200 uses an almost-stock version of the Marlin firmware (as does my Reach 3D), it's likely a really easy setup. I'd share my Reach 3D setups, but we have different extruder configurations and that would be confusing.

If you have some working K8200 gcode from a newer version of Cura and the file contains a CURA_PROFILE_STRING, you can extract the settings fairly easily. They're not in exactly the format that curaengine 15 needs to see, but they're easy to work from.
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20930
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:35 am

skypi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:52 pm
scruss wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:25 am
skypi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 am
whatever works for you eh! lets say, octopi can print a simple box OK
I do a bit more than that … OctoPi is currently handling a vase mode/spiral contour print no problem. I've fed it 12+ hour print jobs. For me, it just works.

Best to complain on the OctoPi/OctoPrint support forum. There's no-one here who can do anything about it
what are you using to slice? could be that cura 2.x is doing some extra stuff beyond capabilities of printer, unfortunately installing cura 15.x on ubuntu 16 only installs cura 2.x

Interested in trying to use the curaengine slicer with octoprint but as can only install cura 2.x cannot create a profile and have not found any cura 15.x example config files that I can modify for my printer. (reckon the config file structure probably changed from 15.x to 2.x)

wasnt complaining just posting a note to say that for me running manually installed octoprint worked better in my configuration. Maybe save someone else some time.

did not think I was being particularly sweary, did not think crap was a word that might "trigger" jamesh eh! probably got tripwires for every time I post eh!
The post was reported, hence moderator intervention.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

skypi
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:27 pm

OK, so I will concede maybe better to post on octoprint forum, but... just noticed running just octoprint on just stretch lite octoprint using a pc that is slow enough that you see the urls the app is loading over firefox in the status line, it is doing that stupid lookup of something online thing, I know those sorts of things can be blocking...

in general terms I reckon it is the stupidity of a web app running on .local that looks up .js script or other resource from online eh!

(i.e. it waits then gets cached version.... or just fails....)

Ok Jamesh! my apologies for that assumption...

User avatar
scruss
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact: Website

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:03 am

You seem determined to find fault with it. For me, it's perfectly fast - even on my phone. Yes, it get components from the web. It checks versions and asks if you want to upgrade. It lets you choose plugins, which install automatically. This is what software that people might want to use does these days.

Personally, I love the built-in slicer with realtime 3D accelerated graphics and the gcode viewer.
The attachment octopi1.jpg is no longer available
octopi1.jpg
octoprint slicer
octopi1.jpg (25.9 KiB) Viewed 419 times
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

skypi
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:55 pm

realtime accelerated graphics? thru a browser?????

I disabled the gcode viewer as a potential real-time blockage (just in case)

what I would say, from feel, is that the distro is slower in loading the web link than just installing octoprint on stretch lite, now it is possible that a slow browser interacting with octoprint might also slow it down, like using latest intel cpu may not notice same problems as an old electrical-power efficient just-enough-cpu-power for desktop use, link to octoprint???

I cannot pin the blame with any evidence on the distro, as subtle parameter changes in the slicer seem possibly also causes.

as an addendum I would say that this set of problems would not have caused me to discover ideamaker which observing the gcode seems more logical in moves it creates, but it is interesting the schema/parameters of each slicer.

User avatar
scruss
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact: Website

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:59 am

skypi wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:55 pm
realtime accelerated graphics? thru a browser?????
Yup, WebGL. Works amazingly well. If you look at any Thingiverse part in the "Thingiview" viewer, it's using WebGL.

Also, you really don't need to worry about real-time control of a 3D printer: that's what the controller board does. OctoPrint, like every other serially-connected 3D print controller, trickles gcode across an asynchronous serial link, and has no concept or ability of managing anything in real time.
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

skypi
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: For me using the octopi distro wasted time, not real-time enough?

Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:51 pm

well, serial still needs to be real time enough to have data available to send when required, (i.e. not cpu blocking waiting for something else at that point in time) I guess it's mainly dependent on the gcode command types i.e. a 200mm line single command requires a lot less serial port throughput than 200, 1mm line, gcode commands.

ANYWAY! I was drunk ranting, but several things were the cause

A) too many changes at once, (cura upgrade and me upgrading to octoprint, and a common extruder stripdown to get old snapped filament out)

B) underspecced pi power supply, using an original 1.8a power supply which was driving the pi b I had before the pi3 (though perhaps not the cause as not really taxing the pi3 on all cores)

C) underspecced k8200 power supply (cannot maintain temps and lots of fast movement and fan cooling the object, probably partially the cause)

D) poor bed levelling, not realizing that you have to set a Z offset in the firmware or in the software or level the bed to like 0.06mm and extrude an extra few percent on first layer

E) a few other factors

sure actually Octoprint is probably OK will try it again as I want to stick a pi camera on, as I maligned octoprint should give it another go

Return to “General discussion”