jacobdu215
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Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:31 am

Hello
Where am I able to get quotes for more than 1 RPi Zero model or Zero W model for a computer coding club?

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:53 am

You can get the Pi Zero v1.3 in multiples now, the 1-per order limit has been lifted. The W is still limited to 1 per order.

For a coding club you don't want the Zero. It's slow and needs too many adapters. Just get the Pi3, you can get as many as you want and everything just plugs in (4 USB ports, full size HDMI, 3.5mm audio, and Ethernet), it also has WiFi and Bluetooth, plus it's a much more sophisticated quad core (7-8X faster than the Zero) with twice as much RAM.
My password is the last 8 digits of Pi.

DirkS
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:24 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:53 am
You can get the Pi Zero v1.3 in multiples now, the 1-per order limit has been lifted.
Are you sure? Looking at some of the vendor sites it still seems to be restricted to one...

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 am

jacobdu215 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:31 am
Hello
Where am I able to get quotes for more than 1 RPi Zero model or Zero W model for a computer coding club?

Unable to advise as country of residence not stated :shock:
My only "PC" is an Asus ChromeBit running ChromeOS, cloudcentric at its best !
Rockchip Quad-Core RK3288C SoC as used in ASUS Chromebook C201 & Chromebook Flip C100PA as well as the Tinker SBC

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:06 am

Interesting, just a few days ago Adafruit let me out a bunch of the Zero v1.3 in my cart with no complaints, while the W still said 1 per customer. I assumed that meant the restriction was over, but now it seems the 1 per customer restriction is back, so I guess it was just a fluke. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My password is the last 8 digits of Pi.

jacobdu215
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:34 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:53 am
You can get the Pi Zero v1.3 in multiples now, the 1-per order limit has been lifted. The W is still limited to 1 per order.

For a coding club you don't want the Zero. It's slow and needs too many adapters. Just get the Pi3, you can get as many as you want and everything just plugs in (4 USB ports, full size HDMI, 3.5mm audio, and Ethernet), it also has WiFi and Bluetooth, plus it's a much more sophisticated quad core (7-8X faster than the Zero) with twice as much RAM.
Sorry for the late reply but the main issue is budget, we are currently limited to only a few hundred dollars and it needs to include microsd card costs. 20 Pi 3s would cost $700.

jacobdu215
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:35 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 am
jacobdu215 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:31 am
Hello
Where am I able to get quotes for more than 1 RPi Zero model or Zero W model for a computer coding club?

Unable to advise as country of residence not stated :shock:
United States. Sorry

bensimmo
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:36 am

Shame, in the UK I would have said contact Pimoroni or PiHut for educational thing as stated on their websites.
USA, no idea. Try contacting you local suppliers.

Please have a think about the Zero's actual cost though.

You'll need a miniHDMI to HDMI cable if not already
You'll need a Wireless keyboard/mouse or USB hub (uUSB cabled or adaptor) and my hub/keyboard setup don't work here.

I'm assuming you don't need an internet connection?
As that's added cost of getting the Z over the ZW and uses up the slot in itself.

They are not the fastest things to code on. Doable but internet is not something you'll find a pleasure.

It maybe cheaper/better if you can find some second hand B+ or even B and just clock them at 1GHz on the settings.

btidey
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:04 am

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:36 am
Shame, in the UK I would have said contact Pimoroni or PiHut for educational thing as stated on their websites.
USA, no idea. Try contacting you local suppliers.

Please have a think about the Zero's actual cost though.

You'll need a miniHDMI to HDMI cable if not already
You'll need a Wireless keyboard/mouse or USB hub (uUSB cabled or adaptor) and my hub/keyboard setup don't work here.

I'm assuming you don't need an internet connection?
As that's added cost of getting the Z over the ZW and uses up the slot in itself.

They are not the fastest things to code on. Doable but internet is not something you'll find a pleasure.

It maybe cheaper/better if you can find some second hand B+ or even B and just clock them at 1GHz on the settings.
You can give the PiZero good connectivity by using a mini ethernet/usb hub which will give the wired connection and 3 regular USB A ports to plug into. ebay 'micro usb rj45 hub' shows lots of suppliers for < UKP3.

The hdmi connector depends on how it is planned to use the devices. If designed as headless experimental stations it is a non-issue, otherwise mini to regular cables can be got for the pretty much the same price as full hdmi.

bensimmo
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:09 am

Yep but all thing to consider in the price
Check those hubs actually work with the PiZero and your mouse/keyboard combo.
I can get WiFi and BT dongles to work, but when it comes mouse/keyboard I have to switch to wireless type.
I've never had any luck. :-( not or my A+'s

It would be nice if there was an official RPi version ;-)

All added expense.

jacobdu215
Posts: 15
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:09 am
Yep but all thing to consider in the price
Check those hubs actually work with the PiZero and your mouse/keyboard combo.
I can get WiFi and BT dongles to work, but when it comes mouse/keyboard I have to switch to wireless type.
I've never had any luck. :-( not or my A+'s

It would be nice if there was an official RPi version ;-)

All added expense.
Hello
Okay, we dont need any mouse/keyboards because our goal is to be able to use these on projects where we can apply our code. The problem with school computers is restriction, we dont need any desktop access to the pi, just internet access to ssh.

jacobdu215
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:24 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:36 am
Shame, in the UK I would have said contact Pimoroni or PiHut for educational thing as stated on their websites.
USA, no idea. Try contacting you local suppliers.

Please have a think about the Zero's actual cost though.

You'll need a miniHDMI to HDMI cable if not already
You'll need a Wireless keyboard/mouse or USB hub (uUSB cabled or adaptor) and my hub/keyboard setup don't work here.

I'm assuming you don't need an internet connection?
As that's added cost of getting the Z over the ZW and uses up the slot in itself.

They are not the fastest things to code on. Doable but internet is not something you'll find a pleasure.

It maybe cheaper/better if you can find some second hand B+ or even B and just clock them at 1GHz on the settings.
I remember Pi Hut could ship to US for extra cost, Ill contact them anyway because adafruit, one of the bigger distributors, wont sell more than one, just a 10% discount.

ejolson
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:47 am

jacobdu215 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm
Hello
Okay, we dont need any mouse/keyboards because our goal is to be able to use these on projects where we can apply our code. The problem with school computers is restriction, we dont need any desktop access to the pi, just internet access to ssh.
If all you want is SSH access why not use the free tier on the Amazon cloud?

Seriously though, since the faster Pi 3B can handle many simultaneous SSH sessions, it is probably cheaper to distribute the 20 student logins between 4 Pi 3Bs rather than using 20 Pi Zeros.

An even cheaper solution would be to netboot Raspbian x86 and use the school PCs as diskless workstations. This is essentially what I do here to teach programming. When class is over we reboot the computers and Windows restarts as if nothing happened.

At the beginning of class the students insert a cheap 512MB thumb drive into the PC that loads the Linux image and mounts all filesystems from a network file server. In our case the server was already set up for other purposes so adding a few more files was no problem. If no such server exists, you could put the system image and user files on an external USB HD and make one of the lab computers into the server as needed by booting it using the external HD. The ideas are the same as PiNet, except with x86 PCs. If there is interest, I could provide more details.

bensimmo
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:32 am

jacobdu215 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:09 am
Yep but all thing to consider in the price
Check those hubs actually work with the PiZero and your mouse/keyboard combo.
I can get WiFi and BT dongles to work, but when it comes mouse/keyboard I have to switch to wireless type.
I've never had any luck. :-( not or my A+'s

It would be nice if there was an official RPi version ;-)

All added expense.
Hello
Okay, we dont need any mouse/keyboards because our goal is to be able to use these on projects where we can apply our code. The problem with school computers is restriction, we dont need any desktop access to the pi, just internet access to ssh.
I understand with school restitutions, it's one reason we don't use Pi's for teaching here anymore, it's not worth the outlay for the newest model, to much hassle, to many hoops to go through. Stuff blocked, usb all disabled. Google and most searches (and anything SSL basically will not work unless authorised).
And that's just for staff.

Still if the bulk Zero doesn't work, do look at the old B+/A+ 512Mb versions popping up.
Or even the 256Mb as we run most simple thing off then fine (we've gps, data logged 9dof and camera.,
All three things at once is a stretched on an original A+, but are happy on a Pi2 or 3.
(At least using python)

If you are looking at using the gpio pins, you should be able to bulk buy with them soldered in. For extra $$ of course.

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:02 am

jacobdu215 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:09 am
Yep but all thing to consider in the price
Check those hubs actually work with the PiZero and your mouse/keyboard combo.
I can get WiFi and BT dongles to work, but when it comes mouse/keyboard I have to switch to wireless type.
I've never had any luck. :-( not or my A+'s

It would be nice if there was an official RPi version ;-)

All added expense.
Hello
Okay, we dont need any mouse/keyboards because our goal is to be able to use these on projects where we can apply our code. The problem with school computers is restriction, we dont need any desktop access to the pi, just internet access to ssh.

Why do you need "just internet access to ssh" with a RPi Zero you can place in "Gadget Mode" and communicate from a PC over USB :?
My only "PC" is an Asus ChromeBit running ChromeOS, cloudcentric at its best !
Rockchip Quad-Core RK3288C SoC as used in ASUS Chromebook C201 & Chromebook Flip C100PA as well as the Tinker SBC

jacobdu215
Posts: 15
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am

ejolson wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:47 am
jacobdu215 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm
Hello
Okay, we dont need any mouse/keyboards because our goal is to be able to use these on projects where we can apply our code. The problem with school computers is restriction, we dont need any desktop access to the pi, just internet access to ssh.
If all you want is SSH access why not use the free tier on the Amazon cloud?

Seriously though, since the faster Pi 3B can handle many simultaneous SSH sessions, it is probably cheaper to distribute the 20 student logins between 4 Pi 3Bs rather than using 20 Pi Zeros.

An even cheaper solution would be to netboot Raspbian x86 and use the school PCs as diskless workstations. This is essentially what I do here to teach programming. When class is over we reboot the computers and Windows restarts as if nothing happened.

At the beginning of class the students insert a cheap 512MB thumb drive into the PC that loads the Linux image and mounts all filesystems from a network file server. In our case the server was already set up for other purposes so adding a few more files was no problem. If no such server exists, you could put the system image and user files on an external USB HD and make one of the lab computers into the server as needed by booting it using the external HD. The ideas are the same as PiNet, except with x86 PCs. If there is interest, I could provide more details.
Ok, again, we are trying to use these with GPIO extensions to code custom programs with them. So they actually need to interact using the code we would be making. And we asked administration but they wouldnt allow anything but preinstalled stuff to be loaded on school computers.

jacobdu215
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:02 am
jacobdu215 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:09 am
Yep but all thing to consider in the price
Check those hubs actually work with the PiZero and your mouse/keyboard combo.
I can get WiFi and BT dongles to work, but when it comes mouse/keyboard I have to switch to wireless type.
I've never had any luck. :-( not or my A+'s

It would be nice if there was an official RPi version ;-)

All added expense.
Hello
Okay, we dont need any mouse/keyboards because our goal is to be able to use these on projects where we can apply our code. The problem with school computers is restriction, we dont need any desktop access to the pi, just internet access to ssh.

Why do you need "just internet access to ssh" with a RPi Zero you can place in "Gadget Mode" and communicate from a PC over USB :?
Feel like it would be easier to be able to ssh over internet. Dont you think so? Anyway I guess more wait is needed before order restrictions are lifted again for both the zero and the zero w

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:46 am

jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am
Ok, again, we are trying to use these with GPIO extensions to code custom programs with them. So they actually need to interact using the code we would be making. And we asked administration but they wouldnt allow anything but preinstalled stuff to be loaded on school computers.
If you're going to use GPIO pins, you'd be better off better getting A+ Pis. They come with the GPIO pins already installed. As for the access issues...would it be feasible for your project to create an isolated LAN (just an unconnected router and switches) so that you don't have to go through the school admin or IT?

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:36 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:46 am
jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am
Ok, again, we are trying to use these with GPIO extensions to code custom programs with them. So they actually need to interact using the code we would be making. And we asked administration but they wouldnt allow anything but preinstalled stuff to be loaded on school computers.
If you're going to use GPIO pins, you'd be better off better getting A+ Pis. They come with the GPIO pins already installed. As for the access issues...would it be feasible for your project to create an isolated LAN (just an unconnected router and switches) so that you don't have to go through the school admin or IT?

If the Educational Establishment lock down the Computers then are they likely to allow remote access over the Internet ??

Heydt makes a valid point and can be undertaken with PiNet: http://pinet.org.uk/
My only "PC" is an Asus ChromeBit running ChromeOS, cloudcentric at its best !
Rockchip Quad-Core RK3288C SoC as used in ASUS Chromebook C201 & Chromebook Flip C100PA as well as the Tinker SBC

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 am

You're still not considering how stripped down the Pi Zero is. There is NO network interface at all on the Pi Zero. You'll need to purchase a wireless or Ethernet dongle and an OTG adapter for each. The "W" model does have WiFi and Bluetooth, so that might be a better solution, but it's twice the price.

Neither Pi Zero model has a GPIO header, so you'll either have to purchase those and solder them onto each one, or you'll be soldering wires to the GPIO through-holes on the PCB directly.

The regular Pi Zero in USB Gadget mode is actually a good suggestion, but I suspect school restrictions may make it impossible. First, you need to get the driver to install (the driver should be built-in with Windows 7 or later). Then you'll need the Bonjour/Zeroconf network service. The Pi Zero will install as a USB Ethernet/RNDIS Gadget network adapter, and you can SSH into it at pi@raspberrypi.local. If you can get that working, you can use Windows ICS to share the Internet connection with the Pi Zero.
jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 am
Feel like it would be easier to be able to ssh over internet. Dont you think so?
Where and how are you going to connect the Pi Zero to the Internet?
jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 am
Anyway I guess more wait is needed before order restrictions are lifted again for both the zero and the zero w
You have a very long wait ahead. They still impose the 1-per-order restriction on the older Pi Zero, which has been available for years. You could try and contact RPF directly to inquire about a quantity purchase. From what I have seen posted before, it might be possible, but there would be additional charges (the price would be higher).

There was one dealer who would sell the Pi Zero or Zero W in quantity if you bought them with pre-installed GPIO headers, although I forget which dealer that was at the moment (maybe Pi Supply?).

Here's a source of inexpensive micro-SD cards, anyway:
Silicon Power 16GB MicroSDHC UHS-1 Memory Card Limited Edition - with Adapter (SP016GBSTHBU1V20BS). They are $7.99 each right now. I have a few of these and they work well. They have very fast read speeds, good write speeds, and good random I/O performance (which is important for performance on a Pi, and where most SD cards perform poorly). Here are my test results on USB 3.0 (Windows 10).
2017-11-14_SP_16GB_SE(2).png
2017-11-14_SP_16GB_SE(2).png (40.82 KiB) Viewed 276 times
My password is the last 8 digits of Pi.

btidey
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:51 pm

Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:42 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 am
You're still not considering how stripped down the Pi Zero is. There is NO network interface at all on the Pi Zero. You'll need to purchase a wireless or Ethernet dongle and an OTG adapter for each. The "W" model does have WiFi and Bluetooth, so that might be a better solution, but it's twice the price.

Neither Pi Zero model has a GPIO header, so you'll either have to purchase those and solder them onto each one, or you'll be soldering wires to the GPIO through-holes on the PCB directly.
This is all true but it just depends on how price sensitive the OP is, and if the extra effort is considered worth it.

In UK pounds

Pi Zero (4.87) + micro USB to 3 port USB / Ethernet port adapter (2.85) + GPIO header (0.25) = 7.97 This is then functionally similar to A+ (20.0) but has extra USBs Not a lot one off but multiplied up ...

Of course, if one can't get the numbers required then the debate is moot.

ejolson
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Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:20 am

jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am
Ok, again, we are trying to use these with GPIO extensions to code custom programs with them. So they actually need to interact using the code we would be making. And we asked administration but they wouldnt allow anything but preinstalled stuff to be loaded on school computers.
In the States a good place to buy Pi Zero's and W's is Micro Center. The price of the W is currently marked down to US$5 for quantities of one. The price is much higher to purchase more than one. If there is a Micro Center in your town I would recommend sending a note home with the children in the computing club requesting they go get one. This would be similar to a cereal box-top drive or a request for donations of tissues and paper towels. In my experience such requests are fairly common and effective.

jacobdu215
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Purchasing RPi For Classroom?

Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 am
You're still not considering how stripped down the Pi Zero is. There is NO network interface at all on the Pi Zero. You'll need to purchase a wireless or Ethernet dongle and an OTG adapter for each. The "W" model does have WiFi and Bluetooth, so that might be a better solution, but it's twice the price.

Neither Pi Zero model has a GPIO header, so you'll either have to purchase those and solder them onto each one, or you'll be soldering wires to the GPIO through-holes on the PCB directly.

The regular Pi Zero in USB Gadget mode is actually a good suggestion, but I suspect school restrictions may make it impossible. First, you need to get the driver to install (the driver should be built-in with Windows 7 or later). Then you'll need the Bonjour/Zeroconf network service. The Pi Zero will install as a USB Ethernet/RNDIS Gadget network adapter, and you can SSH into it at pi@raspberrypi.local. If you can get that working, you can use Windows ICS to share the Internet connection with the Pi Zero.
jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 am
Feel like it would be easier to be able to ssh over internet. Dont you think so?
Where and how are you going to connect the Pi Zero to the Internet?
jacobdu215 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 am
Anyway I guess more wait is needed before order restrictions are lifted again for both the zero and the zero w
You have a very long wait ahead. They still impose the 1-per-order restriction on the older Pi Zero, which has been available for years. You could try and contact RPF directly to inquire about a quantity purchase. From what I have seen posted before, it might be possible, but there would be additional charges (the price would be higher).

There was one dealer who would sell the Pi Zero or Zero W in quantity if you bought them with pre-installed GPIO headers, although I forget which dealer that was at the moment (maybe Pi Supply?).

Here's a source of inexpensive micro-SD cards, anyway:
Silicon Power 16GB MicroSDHC UHS-1 Memory Card Limited Edition - with Adapter (SP016GBSTHBU1V20BS). They are $7.99 each right now. I have a few of these and they work well. They have very fast read speeds, good write speeds, and good random I/O performance (which is important for performance on a Pi, and where most SD cards perform poorly). Here are my test results on USB 3.0 (Windows 10).
2017-11-14_SP_16GB_SE(2).png
Thank you, that's a lot of good info. And I'm beginning to consider getting like 10 3Bs and having them pair up.

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