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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:03 am

Jessie wrote:The Parallella is almost impossible to get ahold of. Plus they overheat in their stock config.
Adapteva have signed RS as a distributor/reseller in RoW, and had about 2000 boards go to RS (see Aug 1st press release). The following was taken this morning from the UK site, so stock does not represent all in the RS dist channel.

Parallella Epiphany-16 Desktop Computer | 98.06 GBP | 275 in stock

Parallella Epiphany-16 Embedded Platform 157.94GBP | 14 in stock

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:09 am

Not so much of a math geek if $35 x 100 = $35000 ;)

Try $3.5K :)
You guys are tlking to a teenager who knows AP Calculus AB level knowledge...
Mistakes in math are not acceptable in my family...

I was going for using RPi because of it's cheap-ness too...

I coul've used nana or Beagle, that twice expensive in total...

RPi 3.5k
Beagle ($75 each) so $7.5k
Last edited by Supercomputing-RPi on Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ravenous
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:47 am

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:You guys are tlking to a teenager who knows AP Calculus AB level knowledge...
Mistakes in math are not acceptable in my family...
Not sure what the "AP" or "AB" bits mean, but I'll guess at least half of the people on this thread know calculus and most of the rest would learn it pretty quickly. Anyway, that's virtually nothing to do with parallel computing I think. :?

Again: do you have any idea which calculations will be run on each processor, how much data will have to be sent from one to another and how fast? These are specific to each problem you intend to solve, they may even determine the network topology you need, if you haven't even considered these nobody will take you very seriously.
Supercomputing-RPi wrote:You're so illiterate in math if you don't know the power of tau (greek letter)...
We know about the Tau - someone was speculating the Pi mark 2 would be called that.... :)

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AndrewS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:28 am

Ravenous wrote:Again: do you have any idea which calculations will be run on each processor, how much data will have to be sent from one to another and how fast? These are specific to each problem you intend to solve, they may even determine the network topology you need, if you haven't even considered these nobody will take you very seriously.
Exactly. AFAICT you seem to be focusing exclusively on hardware, and giving very little thought to the software. Without the appropriate software, even the fastest hardware in the world isn't going to be doing much... :?

As others have said, I'd recommend starting out with a small "proof of concept" system, and once you have a better idea of what you're doing, only then start scaling up to more computers. No point spending thousands of dollars on hardware, and only later realising that you'd have been better off buying a different type of hardware :!:

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RaTTuS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:45 am

I said that way back on the 1st page ...
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 04#p588698
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

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Jim JKla
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:39 am

Some people do have short memories. :D
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

drgeoff
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:40 am

RaTTuS wrote:I said that way back on the 1st page ...
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 04#p588698
He didn't listen then either!

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Burngate
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:37 pm

I ignored this thread when it first popped up, thinking I knew nothing about the subject.
But it keeps popping up, so I've eventually read the whole thread, and ...
Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but ...

So things like [email protected] work with low-speed communications between the nodes, by dividing the work between lots of PCs (and marginally work on the Pi)
Could a network of Pis be set up in a similar fashion?
One would need access to the server code, to run on something faster, but other than that, the division-of-labour is already done, and the network speed should be better than that obtainable over the internet.

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DougieLawson
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:41 pm

Burngate wrote: Could a network of Pis be set up in a similar fashion?
One would need access to the server code, to run on something faster, but other than that, the division-of-labour is already done, and the network speed should be better than that obtainable over the internet.
That's the nature of the beast. It's the breaking of the massively parallel task into small chunks that run autonomously on each of the nodes that is the hard part of clustering, the other hard part is glueing the results back together when the parallel processing is complete. Not all workloads are suitable for that kind of thing.
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:57 pm

The problem with the parallela is that it too could only be used as a infomation distributer...

It only has a ARMv7 and a proprietary epiphany processor.
But no GPU info.

However this could be used to be making branches of nodes and subnodes...

Info flowchart coming soon...

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AndrewS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:58 pm

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:The problem with the parallela is that it too could only be used as a infomation distributer...
It only has a ARMv7 and a proprietary epiphany processor.
But no GPU info.
You do realise that a GPU isn't a requirement for a computer to be useful in a (super)computer cluster?!
GPU = Graphics Processing Unit, which typically composes lots of small cores, all working in parallel (normally used to run vertex and texture shaders). With programmable GPUs, you can program those cores to run non-graphical programs instead, and since there's so many cores, you can typically get good performance for problems that are able to be broken up into lots of small parallel tasks.
And the "proprietary epiphany processor" on the parallela is also lots of small cores, all working in parallel... (i.e. AFAIK it's sort of like a GPU, but without a display output).

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:16 pm

@AndrewS

Then could GPU processes be virtualized such that any device with a cpu connected in a network would able to process it?

I am looking into dedicated 3D video processing...

I am going to have to put this in kickstarter and I have to bring results out of this computer...

If the CPU is able to handle itself and the GPU processes I will consider it...

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AndrewS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:54 pm

*sigh*

A GPU is basically a whole collection of cut-down highly-specialised CPUs, "glued together" into one package. Because each core in a GPU is much simpler than each core in a CPU, they're smaller, so you can fit more of them into a single chip. And hence why you can run so many multiple cores in parallel. You can run the same code on a CPU, but since a CPU is general-purpose, it is bigger and has far fewer cores.

Why do you insist on talking about kickstarter, despite all the advice you've been given to start small, learn what you're actually doing (which you clearly don't yet - apologies if that sounds overly harsh), before starting to scale up to more expensive options? :?

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:25 pm

@AndrewS

I am putting effort into deep research...
I am determined for this project..
I will make this happen...

About the ITXs..

I am planning on using FCOE (Fiber (In UK, Fibre?) Channel over Ethernet).
10 Gbit/s connectivity SFP+ Optical Cables and a $5,100 Cisco 16 port FCOE Switch...

There is a Linux distro called CHAOS...
6mb in size, this package could convert any linux compatible device to a clustered supercomputer....
CHAOS stands for Clustered High Availability Operating System.
https://code.google.com/p/chaos-release/

Is the RPi a 32 bit ARM setup?

drgeoff
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:11 pm

My characterisation of a government minister:

1. Talks a lot about things he knows nothing about.
2. Does not listen to others who do not agree with his views
3. Uses other people's money to finance projects which fail
4. Tries to jump ship before brown stuff hits fan

Do you know one in the making? (Could be a while before #4 applies.)

:lol:

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:08 pm

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:I am putting effort into deep research...

Is the RPi a 32 bit ARM setup?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=raspberry+pi+cpu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM11

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:30 pm

@drgeoff

I am sorry if this is contrary to your thoughts but, are you trying to tell me that I am incapable in accomplishing this just because I am making outlandish comments?

Are trying to characterize me as someone with no knowledge of computers?


I am trying to make progress in the initial stages of this project by research..

I am trying to rapidify this because I have less time for this (I want to do more in less time).

I do agree with people, I have made changes in plans and ideas for the best workflow I expect due to useful comments from many RPi insiders (I consider you {drgeoff} also in that category).

Ex.
As for the GPU, someone has posted code for doing FFTs in the graphics unit which does give a performance increase. (By: Ravenous in pp.3)


I did know that already and now I am planning on using FFTs as part of a jumpstart procedure in my supercomputer...

However I can see that some people here are not very well accustomed to supercomputing (HPC) purposes and since have only been confused why I am stating different platforms in an platform specific forum.

I am going to have to work with multiple companies to make this happen (it's just like how you buy parts for a DIY full-scale computer, they're not from the same company).

I know that this is not easy...

As a person who is going to devote his life to computational neuroscience, I believe that I have the ability to visualize and virtually calculate that effort and material quantities needed to make my fireworks display fire high into the sky...

I am sorry if the above seems harsh but that is computed result if you underestimate my dedication for this project...

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:47 pm

@Supercomputing-RPi
If the 4 characteristics I listed don't apply to a person, then I cannot have been making any comment about that person.

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:03 am

Ok...

I would have to finance the project from donations, yes...

But where is the possibility of failing?
Failure should only be down to less than 10%...

If I do have failure, I will not stop the project. The project would move on...

Of the four qualities you have mentioned only partial quantities of them apply to me and my project...

What are you planning to accomplish by saying them?

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:25 am

Supercomputing-RPi wrote: But where is the possibility of failing?
Failure should only be down to less than 10%...
You have yet to show that (a) your planned application CAN be partitioned across multiple, concurrent processors, (b) you have the knowledge and skill to do so, and (c) a sound plan to raise the funds needed to build your target system.

Given your remarks about neuroscience, I would have thought that you'd be much more interested in starting by simulating neural nets and then moving on to building dedicated neural network circuitry.

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:55 am

@W.H. Heydt

As I have said previously, microbiology and chemistry is an independent sector of my supercomputer.

I am planning to have 4 different sectors...

Astronomy/Physics
Microbiology/Chemistry
Artificial Intelligence
Ecology

I am planning to do the neuroscience in conjuction with the Ai and MicroBio sectors...

Each sector would have a group of researchers all running processes at the same time..

I know that there are software out there that could assign job to clusters with specified # of cores and # of memory usage per node..

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:06 am

drgeoff wrote:@Supercomputing-RPi
If the 4 characteristics I listed don't apply to a person, then I cannot have been making any comment about that person.
So what was the point of the post then - other than to cause antagonism?
Please don't post if it's not related to the thread, AKA off-topic.
Texy
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:10 am

texy wrote:
drgeoff wrote:@Supercomputing-RPi
If the 4 characteristics I listed don't apply to a person, then I cannot have been making any comment about that person.
So what was the point of the post then - other than to cause antagonism?
Please don't post if it's not related to the thread, AKA off-topic.
Texy
I personally thought it was valid criticism, though perhaps too subtle. A simple "You won't be able to achieve it and nobody will pay you to try" would have been better.

(Of course he can do it if he scales it down and takes advice. Let's see.)

Ravenous
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:22 am

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:But where is the possibility of failing?
Failure should only be down to less than 10%...
In other words, what risks are inherent in the project. I'll mention just one.

Communication between nodes - simpler parallel processes can be split by sending out the data and work to several computers, letting them chug along, and collecting the data afterwards. Like SETI that's already been mentioned. Others need faster communication between computers to work efficiently, so they're not waiting for each other's intermediate results.

In the 90s there were "Connection machines" which were said to be the next big thing, the topology was hypercubic meaning very fast parallel communication between relatively simple nodes. Unfortunately they didn't really last - apparently because it was such a brain ache programming them for many types of process. (I've seen some manuals on line, if you want to scare yourself.)

Really serious supercomputers need both fast processors, and fast network access to each other and to storage. I heard recently that one of the massive systems out there, can be made back up all processor data a few times a day to guard against the occasional hardware faliure. This process took something like half an hour to do. Can you imagine the network load, all those processors trying to write their current state to disk somewhere, simultaneously...

Just putting fibre on a raspberry pi won't be much good though. You need to recruit a networking guy, or become one.

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Jim JKla
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:36 am

Ahhh! the confidence of youth. One of the the reasons I wish I was a teenager again,

@Supercomputing-RPi
Look none of the advice here has been aimed as a personal attack we just happen to have a forum with a lot of development experience.

So the approach where you are determined to do it all at once is a feature of youthful hormones.

You should not let it stop you trying.

Waving this youthful exuberence and bravado is just going to infuriate the old farts here who know from experience the best way to approach a project like this is to build smaller prototypes and scale up.

Given your determination to use crowdfunding to finance and desire to use 100 RPi you would have greater sucess crowdfunding 100 units then comming back here for advice on how to stitch them together.

Asking here for text support on viability is probably not going to happen.

There will be some that do not like your hetrogenious mixed solution where you use non RPi in the mix do yourself a favour do not get into those arguments they will just frustrate you.

From the sounds of your aims to launch an assult on Astronomy/Physics, Microbiology/Chemistry, Artificial Intelligence & Ecology would suggest your trying to be a polymath from your determination to do it all at once without taking a modular approach only prooves you are a teenager.

When it comes to the bigger scheme of things your 100 RPi approach is small fry so don't let any debate here stop you.

The old farts here (of which I consider myself one) will continue to argue the toss but if you are as determined as you appear then go for it I look forward to the day when you can come back and proove us wrong ;)
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

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