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joan
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:35 am

Jim JKla wrote:For all your suggestions you seem blind to the fact that the OP wants desperately to build a "Supercomputer" with RaspberryPi units and to his (I am assuming it's a he forgive me if I am wrong) credit is choosing to hammer out the problems with using the RPi as a desired approach in the cauldron that is this forum.

I don't want to see this project fail but I would really like to see it atempted. ;)

Look at the OP's chosen forum name, here I see a desperate desire to be able to say I tried this suceed or fail.

@Supercomputing-RPi (Please correct me if I am wrong in this view or any of my other asumptions)
I take the OP as seriously as I take jran1216 and HEX_addict. I wonder if they share an IP address as well as their unique brand of reasoning.

ghans
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:40 am

@Supercomputing-RPi
Can you elaborate on the software setup you want to use ?


ghans
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Ravenous
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:23 am

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:One example is, fetching data from NASA's small body database (via the internet) and embedding that asteriod or comet info into a 3D realtime solar system visualizer showing in a HDMI ready 4K display.
We had a discussion in the past about using the Raspi for parallel operations to a single display monitor. If I recall the conclusion was it wouldn't work. Either one raspi alone would have to be fed data and generate the final image and output it via its HDMI port, or several raspis could generate different stripes of each image and a single raspi would have to very rapidly receive them and assemble them for display.

In other words there is a bottleneck in the process; the one board that is connected to the monitor.

I dont know about your other applications but I suggest you consider if these can be broken down into multi processor steps in a similar way. See for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMD

Finally - where the raspberry pi is good is it's a cheap way to set up a small cluster, for experience in building clusters. It will not actually compete with supercomputers, or even a fast single computer, because bandwidth between nodes is too limited.

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:00 pm

Thanks for eveyone who have participated in this discussion so far...
I would like to let everyone know that RPi is now no longer the primary hardware being used in my cluster.
It is now pushed to be as secondary.
Raspbian OS will however, will still be used in the cluster.

I still have a question...
If were to use Raspbian on Banana Pi or HummingBoard would that alleviate some of the problems found in the RPi?

And plus,
Ravenous wrote:or several raspis could generate different stripes of each image and a single raspi would have to very rapidly receive them and assemble them for display.
Partially correct but yes.....

One RPi or alt. would send commands to x # of computing boards (I said 100 RPis but now TBD) then the worker nodes would send those "stripes" to a GPU on a separate board having T4L (Tegra4Linux) capability via GigE.

And to be serious, the GPUs are considerably fast at graphics. Jetson TK1's Kepler GPU is designed for supercomputation.

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RaTTuS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:03 pm

http://www.piwall.co.uk/
for display options
Banana pi's wont help
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:17 pm

The main display out comes out of the TK1, not the nodes....
Computational data gets pushed out of the nodes into the TK1 which then assembles or gives out the graphical data via it's HDMI out.

Ravenous
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:31 pm

As I understand it, you could build the thing from one of the Tegra & Kepler based boards. (It has lots of cores on the board.)

I agree this is the right way to go as those boards are apparently intended for that.

However I don't see why you need Raspberry Pis, or any of the copies. I think they would just slow it down....

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:51 pm

As I am intending this to be used at a school,

I would successfully cover topics about Astronomy, Math, Physics, Engineering, and Biology.

But there would be no substance in calling my scheme as a supercomputer.
And successfully building one for it to be used readily for high intensive applications is what my aim is.
It is just the above aim in constraints......
small easy to use hardware
linked up in ethernet
4K H.265 output via HDMI from TK1
~5-10 TFLOPS output power.
But Time is not an issue yet because it too is TBD.

It is not that is not possible w/ RPi.
Univ. of Southampton did it w/ 64 of them... They push out 1.5 TFLOPS total I guess.
Its just that they aren't punishing their worker nodes with huge amounts of data I plan to throw at the nodes.

My school would expect it have some educational value for it to be approved in the school board.
Surely enough it has a lot of educational value for inspiring students into Sci-Tech fields.
It wouldn't be considered as a cluster at all with just one TK1, worse yet not a supercomputer.
Last edited by Supercomputing-RPi on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ghans
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:22 pm

I did have a look at those Jetson TK1 board and yes , they
do pack quite a punch. I can really see them used as
supercomputing building blocks. But i'm still not sure how and
with which software you could realize your project (projects ?).

ghans
• Don't like the board ? Missing features ? Change to the prosilver theme ! You can find it in your settings.
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Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:44 pm

MPI??
DHCP??
NVIDIA DEV SOFTWARE??? TK1 is a dev board, it does accept customized code, right???
TEGRA4LINUX??

Is it possible to work with them all?

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:56 pm

Hummingboard and Banana PI
2 GFLOPS 5 GFLOPS

While RPi
24 GFLOPS

Any device which could do more than 25 GFLOPS would be ok for me...

Currently looking into UDOO Quads....

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:16 pm

Whoops!!!

Hummingboard i2ex has Vivante 2000 GPU,

Vivante 2000 GPU has 24 GFLOPS!!!!

Sorry hunsinro, Banana Pi only has about 5 GFLOPS.

Below has comparisons for Mini-ITX creations.... Anything that has Viviante 2000 is a good RPi competitor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... _computers

I saw the FOXCONN Brazos AT-5570
8G RAM
ATi Radeon 7290 (64 GFLOPS!!!, plus DX11 support) Is there DX support for Linux?
AMD APU

I was also looking into parallela....
They still haven't released the 64 core version which has 90 GFLOPS.

If I were to use 100 (16 cores) parallela boards, 6 of those Foxconns, and 20 of those Nvidia TK1s....
I would get around 9.584 TFLOPS. Again its TFLOPS or exactly 9,584 GFLOPS.

If I jump to the 64 core edition on epiphany IV,
I would get about 15.384 TFLOPS or 15,384 GFLOPS

NOTE: I really would like seeing my cluster/supercomputer in the TFLOP range.

And on steady donations etc. I could improve/increase computing power by
- adding class 10 SD cards...
- adding more TK1s
- experimenting with RPi, Banana Pi, Hummingboard, and UDOO on the cluster.

Now... Who's attention have I got?
Who's ready for this?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:28 pm

I thought I was on the Raspberry Pi Forum, not the one concerened with Humming and Nana and Tegra whatever ??
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:31 pm

You may find this crazy, you are right....

I am planning on to build a high performance supercomputer with hardware from multiple platforms, including RPi.

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:44 pm

All these RPi restrictions has me thinking....

Why didn't the RPi foundation push further in producing a high performance model which best suits for supercomputing?

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:14 am

Please do not think project is a failure....

I am still going to find out the differences between these very peculiar boards and make a better and more powerful version of RPi.

Which is going to be after I manage to make a cluster.

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rpdom
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:16 am

You might want to investigate some of those GFLOP ratings. These GPU chips have many different processors on them, each of which (or group of) can perform a specific type of task all at the same time. The GFLOP rating could be a theoretical maximum if all the parts are doing their own specific processes at the same time.

For example, on the Pi much of the GPU is shut down a lot of the time, and it is possible that parts of it never get used because of their specific functions. I don't know the answer to this, just speculating.

Obviously if you can write GPU specific code you can use all of the available processors, but are they all actually of any use to you? This applies to the other chips as well as the BCM2385.

Keep pursuing your project though and keep us informed as long as there's still a Raspberry Pi involved somewhere :)

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:12 am

Yes....
Would Raspbian OS make any micro ITX GPU dormant?
We need skilled Raspbian OS programmers in this topic....
Is there any way to make a preprogrammed setup using .py files on boot???

Ex.
Step 1: Turn on nodes (could be done using arduino based remote switch)
Step 2: Check if nodes are on.
Step 3: Use Fast Forier Transforms to wake up GPUs.
Step 4: Wait for Master node command.
Step 5: Shutdown under master command.

I am specifically looking into GFLOP info....
There are estimates and there are actual data.
I would use any hardware that would bring me about 5-10 TFLOP outputs.

When I am done making my cluster, I also am planning on to make a video for those trying to venture into this field (like me)....

ghans
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:52 am

So , you already have a high-level overview on what software
to use ? Do you have a software engineer on your team ?

I also don't understand your insistence on using Raspbian ,
which has been optimized for the Pi. Plain Debian armhf
should be much better suited for the other boards you
mentioned , because they have ARMv7 CPUs with NEON and
perhaps other extras.

ghans
• Don't like the board ? Missing features ? Change to the prosilver theme ! You can find it in your settings.
• Don't like to search the forum BEFORE posting 'cos it's useless ? Try googling : yoursearchtermshere site:raspberrypi.org

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:06 pm

ghans wrote:So , you already have a high-level overview on what software
to use ? Do you have a software engineer on your team ?

I also don't understand your insistence on using Raspbian ,
which has been optimized for the Pi. Plain Debian armhf
should be much better suited for the other boards you
mentioned , because they have ARMv7 CPUs with NEON and
perhaps other extras.

ghans
Answer to Q1 = Not very clear over the software... Only clear over the hardware....
Answer to Q2 = No. Noone right at the moment.

Does plain debian function better with GPUs?
Or does it just use the GPU more?

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:06 pm

Are there ways to analyze audio waveforms using RPi's GPU???

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AndrewS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:33 am

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:Why didn't the RPi foundation push further in producing a high performance model which best suits for supercomputing?
Because they're an educational charity, not a supercomputing charity :roll:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/about/

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AndrewS
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:36 am

Supercomputing-RPi wrote:Are there ways to analyze audio waveforms using RPi's GPU???
Depending on what you want to do, you may find this useful. Or maybe something like http://www.raspberrypi.org/graphic-equaliser/

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Richard-TX
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:50 am

When I need to benchmark something, I compile a program. Here are some times.

Raspberry pi - 90 minutes
Beaglebone Black - 45 minutes
Dell 690 with 2 dual core [email protected] 3 ghz - 13 minutes
new computer with Intel i5 processor - 3 minutes.

I will let you figure out of 100 Raspberrys can do what a single I5 processor can do.
Richard
Doing Unix since 1985.
The 9-25-2013 image of Wheezy can be found at:
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/images/raspbian-2013-09-27/2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.zip

Supercomputing-RPi
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Re: 100 RPi supercomputer w/ 20 GPU boards, appreciate for h

Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:21 am

Umm @Richard-TX
What exactly did you benchmark it for?
What did it test?
The CPU or the GPU?
What was it trying to do?

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