Duane Degn
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Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:31 am

I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place.

There is a person making "how to" type videos about connecting hardware to the Raspberry Pi who is woefully unqualified to do so. It's hard to know how many Raspberry Pi boards the videos (one in particular) produced by this person have contributed in destroying but it is likely in the high hundreds possibly thousands of boards. (The video in question received in excess of 340000 views.)

After, what I consider, a ridiculous amount of time and effort on my part, I finally got this youtuber to pull his destructive video. This same person, has stated his plans to make another video using a different hardware board. Having little confidence in his ability to determine if a hardware device is safe to use with the Raspberry Pi, I did a bit of research on the device and found it of very questionable fitness for use with the Raspberry Pi.

Now if I continue to point out this youtuber's ignorance, I'll likely come across as not being "nice". (I have been accused of abuse by the youtuber already.)

In my opinion, and several others I've discussed this with, this youtuber isn't qualified to make hardware videos. If I openly state this, here on this forum, I will likely not be obeying the rule of "be nice".

My problem is I am distressed by thoughts of many people trying to learn robotics with the Raspberry Pi who may damage their boards by following the directions of this unqualified hardware tutorial maker.

There are actions this youtuber could still take to diminish the damage done by the previous video but it appears only if this youtuber is publicly shamed into taking action will any action be taken.

I mention this here in the Raspberry Pi forum since it's the only location where communicating with the youtuber in question produced any productive results.

He appears to desire not to have his reputation in this forum diminished. And in my experience, the only way to motivate this youtuber to take positive action, is by bringing his poor behavior to the attention of the forum.

I feel like my choices are to let more Raspberry Pi Boards be damaged with the grief this causes the user or to "be mean" and shame the youtuber into correct behavior. I really truly do not like "being mean".

Perhaps there is an authority figure here on the forum to whom this youtuber would listen? If so, then there may not be any need to publicly "shame" the youtuber into appropriate behavior.

Part of me feels like I'm being a busy body and not "minding my own business". But this feeling subsides when I think about the many sad stories I read here on this forum from people wondering what they had done wrong to cause the death of their Raspberry Pi boards. The only thing they had done wrong was to trust the person making the tutorial was qualified to do so.

I know there are many problems much more severe than a few (or hundreds) of Raspberry Pi boards being prematurely burned out, but helping to prevent the premature death of Raspberry Pi boards is one of the worlds problems I have been able to successfully fight. I still feel compelled to continue to help where I can. (That came out much more sanctimonious than I intended.)

I'm not sure if there's an answer any of you can provide, but there are a lot ways I'd rather spend my time than attempting damage control to an overly enthusiastic unqualified tutorial maker.

I'm interested in hearing your ideas on the matter.

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Jessie
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:56 am

That is one hell of a long post with no real meat. There is no actual information there to help anyone make a decision to help you out.

We don't know if this guy is spreading bad info or not only that it is your opinion that he/she is.

ame
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:10 am

Surely said youtuber would be receiving feedback on YouTube next to the video, saying "I tried it and it didn't work"?

Isn't that the right place to state you are unhappy with the content of the video?

There is plenty of idiocy around here. In some cases, following bad advice is a learning experience. In others, learning *before* doing will allow people to spot duff information before acting on it. There are plenty of people here who are dumb enough to follow poor advice, or, when given good advice will still manage to screw things up. I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.

Probably the best way to counter a bad tutorial is to release your own good one.

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mrpi64
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:27 am

Well, hopefully anyone who sees the video will react like Duane, otherwise they are (most likely) stuffed. This stuff shouldn't be on the net. I don't know why people do it.
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

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Cancelor
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:29 am

I'm right with you Duane. There is lots of questionable tutorials on the internet.
Finding the good among the bad is even more hazardous for the noob who won't know how to spot bad advice.
Best to stick to the official RPi web sites.

The feedback section for the video is the best place to start but who reads all the feedback before watching the tutorial?!
Quite often the feedback has been turned off.

'WARNING, this tutorial will damage your RPi because of x, y and z.'

is better and more productive than saying

'This tutorial is rubbish and the creator and his videos should be banned'
Can't find the thread you want? Try googling : YourSearchHere site:raspberrypi.org

Duane Degn
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Location: Idaho, USA

Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:31 am

ame wrote:Surely said youtuber would be receiving feedback on YouTube next to the video, saying "I tried it and it didn't work"?

Isn't that the right place to state you are unhappy with the content of the video?
That's what I thought it would take. But rather than not working, the setup described would appear to work until the Raspberry Pi board was burned out. The video instructed the viewer to connected 5V without any limiting resistor to a GPIO pin. Amazingly the R Pi was able to take this abuse for some time before being destroyed.

Unfortunately even when three forum members in a row pointed out the problem, the youtuber blamed the mistake on the viewer.
ame wrote:I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.

Probably the best way to counter a bad tutorial is to release your own good one.
I'll try not to sweat it. It just seems like a terrible waste of time to spend a lot of time making a video to counteract the information given in another video which likely also took a lot of time. But I'm starting to fear that's the way the world works.

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mrpi64
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:39 am

Duane Degn wrote:But rather than not working, the setup described would appear to work until the Raspberry Pi board was burned out. The video instructed the viewer to connected 5V without any limiting resistor to a GPIO pin.
Whaaaat?
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

ame
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:44 am

Obligatory xkcd:
http://xkcd.com/386/

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joan
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:48 am

ame wrote:Obligatory xkcd:
http://xkcd.com/386/
Usually I'd agree.

This bit of wrongness was linked to by the Raspberry Pi foundation though. I wouldn't expect them to check linked videos. I would expect them to act once warned.

jamesh
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:52 am

joan wrote:
ame wrote:Obligatory xkcd:
http://xkcd.com/386/
Usually I'd agree.

This bit of wrongness was linked to by the Raspberry Pi foundation though. I wouldn't expect them to check linked videos. I would expect them to act once warned.
Linked where? Need to know what to fix...
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Application's Team.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:56 am

Linked from the forum. For example: http://raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic ... 37&t=55288
Any language using left-hand whitespace for syntax is ridiculous

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joan
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:58 am

The youtube channel for the (now made private) video is linked to from the Community page.

ame
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:00 am

I hardly think that the existence of something on the forum implies that it is endorsed by the foundation.

Incidentally, the OP in that thread has been deleted...

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joan
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:05 am

ame wrote:I hardly think that the existence of something on the forum implies that it is endorsed by the foundation.

Incidentally, the OP in that thread has been deleted...
I agree.

However if a channel is linked to from the Community page it is endorsed by the Foundation.

Duane Degn
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:07 am

ame wrote:Obligatory xkcd:
http://xkcd.com/386/
I tell you, I thought of that comic many times. But reading the stories like the ones linked to in this post and the one after it were too disturbing to me.

I don't know how many more such stories there are. You can probably find more by searching this forum for the video URL with Google. There's a link to this sort of search in the above linked thread.

I apologize for starting this thread. I think BMS Doug has come up with the appropriate solution here (I hadn't seen his post before starting this thread).

Apparently I wasn't the only one sending him emails.

I really need to learn to "not sweat it".

jamesh
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:38 am

I've gone through the forums and deleted links to the offending video (which has been made private anyway). I think I got them all, but will check later once Google has retrawled the site.

That was tedious, but thanks for the headsup - I hadn't seen anything come up about the problem.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Application's Team.

BMS Doug
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:44 pm

Duane Degn wrote:
ame wrote:Obligatory xkcd:
http://xkcd.com/386/
I tell you, I thought of that comic many times. But reading the stories like the ones linked to in this post and the one after it were too disturbing to me.

I don't know how many more such stories there are. You can probably find more by searching this forum for the video URL with Google. There's a link to this sort of search in the above linked thread.

I apologize for starting this thread. I think BMS Doug has come up with the appropriate solution here (I hadn't seen his post before starting this thread).

Apparently I wasn't the only one sending him emails.

I really need to learn to "not sweat it".
I would like to thank you for bring the issue up again and getting him to take down the video, I had given up on getting him to do so in May after a failed e-mail exchange as I felt that any further effort on my part would be emulating the (previously linked) xkcd comic.

I must admit that I was very sad to learn that he was given one of the pre-release B+'s and felt disappointed in his review of it. I'll withhold my review of his review as previous bad experience may be making me overcritical, and he is after all still only 14.

I hold no hope that he will follow my advice, instead I expect he will think that I'm "hurling abuse" or "making trouble".
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

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liz
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Re: Countering Bad Tutorials?

Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:54 pm

Closing this thread: seems the tutorial in question has been removed, and as you've noticed, you're talking about a 14-year-old's work here.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

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