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Lob0426
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Solid-Run hummingboard

Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Well Solid-Run is now selling their Raspberry Pi sized board. Yes it will fit in a RasPi case with some modification.

It actually is a "carrier" board with a processing board on top. The processor board (MicroSOM) can be removed and exchanged. This setup is kind of like the Compute Module and Development board just released. The processors available are single core or dual core at 1GHz and the memory is 64bit 512MB or 1GB. Prices range from $44.99 to $116.99. These prices depend on whether you buy a micro SD and power adapter with the board. It uses a Micro USB power adapter. It claims 1Gbit on the i2eX MicroSOM Ethernet but it is limited to 470Mbps, the other two versions are 10/100. It has two USB in the same place as the RasPi and two internal USB on a header. The primary connectors (HDMI, USB, Ethernet, Coax, earphone) are located in the same positions as the RasPi. So is the SD except it is a Micro SD.

I really do not see much advantage in the $44.99 board over the RaSPi. A slight speed gain and 64 bit memory. The extra 2 unpowered USB are nice though.

They state its external USB are powered and the RasPi's are not, so a bit of dis-information there. Their 2 internal ports are unpowered until you get to the i2eX MicroSOM.

It uses Linux and has quite a few distributions available;
Android
ArchLinux
Debian
Fedora
GeeXboX
Gentoo
OpenADK
OpenELEC
Ubuntu
Volumio
Voyage MuBox
XBian
Yocto

No mention of WIN2000 though I know it was able to work on some Freescale architectures.

The top version has a MSATA connector as well as an optional RTC battery connector. No adapter or SD is $99.99. Looks interesting but it does state these are introductory prices so the prices may be higher later. The lowest MicroSOM is $44.99 and that is the price of the "Introductory Price" board!

For those that have been wanting more memory, dual cores, SATA and RTC's this might be worth looking into. The fact that it is designed to fit into a RasPi footprint might be helpful also.

Solid-Run does give the Raspberry Pi credit for "paving the way" for small SBC's into the low cost market.

http://www.solid-run.com/products/hummingboard/

Edit: I just found that you can add Bluetooth to the MicroSOM package (all MicroSOM models) for $10 and then add the carrier board to the order. So for now you can get the base model with Bluetooth for $54.99
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riklaunim
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:06 pm

It's Raspberry Pi size and look related so every blog and tech site will write about it. There are other similar boards too, but not very popular, as they don't use the buzzword of "Raspberry Pi" :mrgreen: Allwinner based boards will have (very often) SATA - PcDuino, Cubieboard. Also Solid-Run as Cubox-i with ESATA, so there are some options to pick from. For multimedia there are cheap Android HDMI dongles (like quad RK3188 SoC). Intel Bay Trail gets also cheap in a form of nettops and mini-ITX boards if you need a real Linux desktop with OpenGL and not OpenGL ES ;) So there is a lot of options to pick from.

For me any ARM board priced close to x86 nettops/PC (or laptops) like $200/$300 for Bay Trail is hard to justify ;)

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Lob0426
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:00 pm

The base priced board is comparable to the RasPi though slightly faster. The size is exactly the same. As I stated that is not very interesting as it gains very little. But many have been looking for a better storage connection. The fact that the board is the same size as the RasPi is a plus. The Cubieboards are larger almost Mini ITX size. There are many other solutions but the footprint is also much larger. I have a Panda board ES it is twice the size as the RasPi. And a Mini ITX is roughly 6 times the size (I have a couple of those also, An Intel Atom330 and a D2550). Size counts in many of the projects that the RasPi has been used for!

So faster for the same size. More options if you are willing to pay for them. The same connection positions. The pin headers are supposed to be in the same layout also so some of the after market GPIO boards will supposedly fit. This could mean that a change over would not be a "back to square one" proposition. I am sure they read the threads where some wanted more and they have tried to fill that need (or just want)

If size or layout is not a problem I would probably buy a Cubieboard2.

The Price range right now is $100 and less, not $200 to $300.

There have been a number of people looking for a RasPi sized solution that has more features/resources. So I thought they might be interested in this board. It has the same problem of other boards, namely the lack of the huge RasPi community. But some of our members do not need as much support as others.

The RasPi is still on top when it comes to price versus performance! The Hummingboard at $44.99 is the closest competitor, Compared to the Model B, of the bunch so far, at least on paper!
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riklaunim
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:46 pm

Cubietruck is big, Cubieboard 1/2 has very similar size to Raspberry Pi. Beaglebone Black is also almost Raspberry Pi size. PcDuino is much longer, similar to Arduino Mega.

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mrpi64
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:00 am

What would you rather have - RPi or HummingBoard?
I'm happy to help.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:31 pm

mrpi64 wrote:What would you rather have - RPi or HummingBoard?
What's better - apples or oranges? :lol:

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:33 pm

mrpi64 wrote:What would you rather have - RPi or HummingBoard?
Lamborghini. Much better than Aardvarks.
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Lob0426
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:42 am

If you have little or no need of the excellent support provided by the Foundation for the RasPi;
You need no guidance or advice to complete your projects;
If you need more memory, MHz, USB, Bluetooth;
And you can afford the price;

Then Maybe the Hummingboard, or a Beagle Bone Black (more GPIO) or a Cubieboard (SATA) or a one of the other boards is what you need.

Otherwise you probably need a RasPi!

It really is an apples or oranges argument if all can buy is the base model.

I am not promoting the hummmingboard, I do not work for them, they have not given me one to buy my opinion, I have not used one and I am not going to put any money in my pocket if you do decide to buy one.

I have been tracking it as it had the potential to use Win2000. Win2000 has been compiled for the FreeScale architecture for use in the U.S. Army Land Warrior project. Win2000 is not mentioned in Solid-Run's site at all, but the i.MX6 in an earlier version was used in that project as a COTS (Current Off The Shelf) system!

JamesH:
I prefer the Corvette, I can afford mine!
You will never be able to pay off that Lambo!
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mrpi64
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:27 am

Lob0426 wrote:If you have little or no need of the excellent support provided by the Foundation for the RasPi;
You need no guidance or advice to complete your projects;
If you need more memory, MHz, USB, Bluetooth;
And you can afford the price;

Then Maybe the Hummingboard, or a Beagle Bone Black (more GPIO) or a Cubieboard (SATA) or a one of the other boards is what you need.

Otherwise you probably need a RasPi!

It really is an apples or oranges argument if all can buy is the base model.

I am not promoting the hummmingboard, I do not work for them, they have not given me one to buy my opinion, I have not used one and I am not going to put any money in my pocket if you do decide to buy one.

I have been tracking it as it had the potential to use Win2000. Win2000 has been compiled for the FreeScale architecture for use in the U.S. Army Land Warrior project. Win2000 is not mentioned in Solid-Run's site at all, but the i.MX6 in an earlier version was used in that project as a COTS (Current Off The Shelf) system!

JamesH:
I prefer the Corvette, I can afford mine!
You will never be able to pay off that Lambo!
Did Microsoft port it for the army?
I'm happy to help.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:55 pm

Lob0426 wrote:If you have little or no need of the excellent support provided by the Foundation for the RasPi;
You need no guidance or advice to complete your projects;
If you need more memory, MHz, USB, Bluetooth;
And you can afford the price;

Then Maybe...
...you can hire the A-Team! :lol:

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:38 pm

I've got the van covered ;)
http://www.planetinaction.com/ateam/
I'm happy to help.
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Lob0426
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:53 pm

mrpi64 wrote:
Did Microsoft port it for the army?
That is a question I cannot find an answer too. Win2000 is closed source so I would think their had to be some interaction with MS

I found this tidbit
ThunderChunkysBoyz5th Jul 2001, 07:10 PM
Now back to the topic at hand:

The closed source nature of Windows doesn't really pose a problem to Land Warrior. Using COTS (commercial off-the-self) components doesn't have to harm a milspec product. You need to look at what the computer was designed to accomplish to realize that the operating system isn't the pivotal feature of the design. As long as you can write code for Windows, you should be fine to use it as a backend to your situational awareness tools.

Let me take a different angle. The Land Warrior program was first pioneered by Raytheon as a "pet project." They spent $90 million and produced almost nothing. Their computer was based on software developed by Raytheon and as a result the system was more closed that it ought to be. Contractors withheld their code and protocols for more money. They played chicken with the army, and lost.

The project was handed to a couple of small companies based in California and prototypes were delivered almost immediately. And these new prototypes were based on Windows. Windows allowed these systems to be smaller, lighter, more modular, and support a wider array of hardware than the Raytheon units. Furthermore, the price was dropped from $100k to $15k. Not a bad deal, I would say.

Off the shelf products sometimes DO allow for more flexibility than perceived on initial inspection.
It appears that the Land Warrior system eventually went to a Linux based system before field tests in Iraq.

In the end the Land Warrior system has slow performance (400MHz processor) and was found to be distracting to most troops who just ignored its ability to enhance communications. Officers had more interest in knowing where their troops were. It added superior tools for in the field mission planning.

Remember that The Land warrior system is not only the computer but a "system" that includes body armor, weapons sights, remote vitals monitoring and communications as some of its system.

One of the big problems for field use is the power system. The training batteries ran only about 8 hours (rechargeable) and the field batteries ran around 12 hours and then had to be thrown away.

Land warrior was continued into Future Force warrior in 2011.

There has been an interest from some in a Windows based system on a small boards. So this could be a starting point for a windows port. But only if someone can find that port to work with.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:59 am

Wouldn't Linux be the choice for military applications instead of windows, anyway? Nuclear Subs run Linux, Schools run Linux, the local libraries server runs Linux.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:08 pm

Lob0426 wrote:Well Solid-Run is now selling their Raspberry Pi sized board. Yes it will fit in a RasPi case with some modification.
The HB-i1 and the HB-i2 will both fit into the ModMyPi cases and the 19Design (RS) cases without any modifications.
The HB-i2eX will only fit in the 19Design (RS) cases without any modifications.

Hope that helps ;)
www.newit.co.uk

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:01 pm

mrpi64 wrote:Wouldn't Linux be the choice for military applications instead of windows, anyway? Nuclear Subs run Linux...
The USS Yorktown is a fairly well known tale about running Windows in big grey boats, beware :)
(How much of it has become urban myth, I can no longer tell.)

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:20 am

The Military (The U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Army use at least) is stuck on Windows. I do not know why, but guess that it is because of it being "closed source". Also remember the military does not worry about support cost. Of course then they do not use the support as everything is a secret! Mostly probably because all of their contractors use windows products too. They would probably go to MacOS before they would use Linux! :lol:


Thank you NewIT for the info
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:29 am

Lob0426 wrote:The Military (The U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Army use at least) is stuck on Windows. I do not know why, but guess that it is because of it being "closed source". Also remember the military does not worry about support cost. Of course then they do not use the support as everything is a secret! Mostly probably because all of their contractors use windows products too. They would probably go to MacOS before they would use Linux! :lol:


Thank you NewIT for the info
Or MS-DOS (long filename, eh?)
I'm happy to help.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:20 am

mrpi64 wrote:Or MS-DOS (long filename, eh?)
"Keep your magnets out of here!" ;)

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:29 am

Can't, it's stuck to your watch. :D
I'm happy to help.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:16 pm

Lob0426 wrote:The Military (The U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Army use at least) is stuck on Windows. I do not know why, but guess that it is because of it being "closed source". Also remember the military does not worry about support cost. Of course then they do not use the support as everything is a secret! Mostly probably because all of their contractors use windows products too. They would probably go to MacOS before they would use Linux! :lol:


Thank you NewIT for the info
Depends on which 4 star is in charge. Most of the time they do use windows. But there was a guy that liked his ipad so much that he put 100s of millions into getting some of their stuff transitioned to ios. Last I checked all that money and three years later and the software still isn't ready.

When I was in the server room on schreiver they had a rack of Sun and Vmware servers so its not all Windows. Plus they have all kinds of proprietary stuff as well just for their "secure" and VTC networks.

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:51 am

Yeah; their second favorite is Proprietary software. Costing billions and cannot get the job done that was specified.

I think their guidelines say;
Whatever is most expensive and has the most chance of failure, that is what you will buy! Oh yeah: and it must exceed development estimates by 300% to 2000%! that way we can hide the "black" development that the money is really aimed at!
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:06 am

Lob0426 wrote:That way we can hide the "black" development that the money is really aimed at!
Someone planning a watersports holiday at Groom Lake? I saw it ina movie so it must be true :)

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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:12 am

Lob0426 wrote:Yeah; their second favorite is Proprietary software. Costing billions and cannot get the job done that was specified.

I think their guidelines say;
Whatever is most expensive and has the most chance of failure, that is what you will buy! Oh yeah: and it must exceed development estimates by 300% to 2000%! that way we can hide the "black" development that the money is really aimed at!
More like buy the software from the company that offers me the best pay packet when I leave the forces.
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:47 am

jamesh wrote: More like buy the software from the company that offers me the best pay packet when I leave the forces.
That only works for generals!
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Re: Solid-Run hummingboard

Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:55 pm

Well - having been given an Hummingboard to test / compare to the Raspberry Pi my verdict is very simple : It would be a nice board to use if you could get a working , stable 'Distro' on it. I am now packing the Hummingboard up and either returning it or passing it on to somebody with more hardcore programming skills - it is certainly is not a board for the casual tinkerer or a beginner programmer. The Solid Run 'community' is hugely fragmented - and it has taken me a long time just to get a Debian distro up and running (came loaded with KitKat). The resources for Humminboard is unfortunately scarce - this makes it hard to justify the term 'Raspberry Pi Competitor' - its not even close. I'm not a 'code-ninja' as such but certainly know a few things about the Pi and related software/hardware after 2 years. I would imagine the Hummingbird is a good low cost platform for a serious software developer - could possibly be set up as a cheap media server.

Thoughts ??
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