Communication!

[itsonlyme]

I acknowledge and sympathise with the problems caused by a wrong component, and time being needed to souce the correct one. I understand that, I've been there umpteen times.

What is annoying me is that by now these should have been sourced, and revised production dates received from the factory. This can then enable an educated estimate as to when the units will be available for despatch from the distibutors. This is the information most purchasers and members of this forum need. Can the Foundation now put it out, or get in touch with the distributors and get them to put it out. An email saying effectively "Sorry cannot tell you anything now w'e'll get in touch again in a week", is just not good enough.

How much money is tied up for customers who gave card details to Farnell, and possibly RS, at the time of ordering? I think they at least need some prompt feedback out of courtesy. While the individual amount is small, in total there will be a significant amount of cash tied up here.

[jamesh]

itsonlyme said:


I acknowledge and sympathise with the problems caused by a wrong component, and time being needed to souce the correct one. I understand that, I've been there umpteen times.

What is annoying me is that by now these should have been sourced, and revised production dates received from the factory. This can then enable an educated estimate as to when the units will be available for despatch from the distibutors. This is the information most purchasers and members of this forum need. Can the Foundation now put it out, or get in touch with the distributors and get them to put it out. An email saying effectively "Sorry cannot tell you anything now w'e'll get in touch again in a week", is just not good enough.

How much money is tied up for customers who gave card details to Farnell, and possibly RS, at the time of ordering? I think they at least need some prompt feedback out of courtesy. While the individual amount is small, in total there will be a significant amount of cash tied up here.


To answer the last paragraph first, as I understand it, the full cost of the Raspi is not taken from the account/CC/DC until dispatch.

Sourcing components can take a while - I think they have now been found though. I do not know the current status past that. Eben and Liz are on a well earned break - you should get more information once they get back

[itsonlyme]

Yes I know that, but without an estimated delivery date that money is effectively tied up for the customer as they do not know when it will be wanted.

Pleased to hear that it looks like the components have been found, well done the person that did it.

Eben and Liz deserve their break,  but while I realise the Foundation is all volunteers, is nobody up to speed in their absence? (Perhaps something that needs to be looked at for the future).

And Liz, I hope you are soon back well again.

[jamesh]

Tied up? Really? for £22 (ex vat and shipping)?

Whilst I accept that for many that is not an insignificant sum, if you are that concerned about the money being tied up, I suggest you wait for the wait time to reduce before ordering. I'm not being facetious here, I really would suggest that those for whom this is a problem, ordering now would not be a sensible use of limited funds.

Liz is keeping an eye on things from afar, but cannot do large blogs posts until she gets back. Hopefully there will be lots of news when she gets back. Meanwhile, patience is a virtue, or so I've heard.

[Ravenous]

Can you imagine the flack, whinging and hate mail they'd be getting now if they'd done as so many people asked and set up a pre-ordering system?

I don't know, they try and do something for people and get at best (as in this case) polite but too-frequent reminders, and at worst... well I'd rather not say in public.

[Lynbarn]

itsonlyme said:

Eben and Liz deserve their break,  but while I realise the Foundation is all volunteers, is nobody up to speed in their absence? (Perhaps something that needs to be looked at for the future).

And Liz, I hope you are soon back well again.



I very much doubt that any of the foundation members are exactly sitting around twiddling their thumbs, and whilst there may be some people disadvantaged by having their $35 "tied up", what about those same foundation members  who have had their homes tied up for many months so that they could bring you the 'Pi?

[gritz]

Errrm... Many of us will have had first-hand experience of customers and their ire, and I think it's always unwise to (publicly) dismiss a grievance simply on the basis of the low cost of the product/ service. Saying "Quit whining - it's only $35" is not going to help anyone, believe me (even though that's not the message from the top, obviously).

I think I said in another thread that it's not the original cockup that inflames most customers (disasters happen, after all), but the way that the aftermath is handled. Keep customers informed. If you don't have any news, don't stall for time - tell 'em the truth and apologise. Sucks, but most of them will keep coming back.

[Morgaine]

Information is important to the Rpi community.  We have nothing else currently.

I suggest that it would be reasonable for the Foundation to provide a little box on their website, which is continually updated, containing this information:

* Current total registered interest:  N

* Cumulative total volume of batches in manufacture:  M

* Earliest expected factory completion of next batch:  NN.MM.YY

* Earliest expected 1-per-person deliveries to start:  NN.MM.YY

* Earliest expected date for units from stock:  NN.MM.YY

Note that these would be cumulative figures from Farnell + RS, and hence not revealing anything specific about any given manufacturer.  A volunteer at the Foundation would just poll their contact at Farnell and RS daily, obtain the latest estimate, and update the info box.

The people at Farnell and RS certainly know the above information.  I suggest that the Foundation would help the Rpi community greatly by making it available publicly in this aggregated form.  Without it there will be continual angst and uncertainty here.

Morgaine.

[roelfrenkema]

Lynbarn said:

I very much doubt that any of the foundation members are exactly sitting around twiddling their thumbs, and whilst there may be some people disadvantaged by having their $35 "tied up", what about those same foundation members  who have had their homes tied up for many months so that they could bring you the 'Pi?

I feel tear sprouting and a mea culpa, but to be honestly when Farnell told me I would have to wait till late April and had the nerve to ask me for money I canceled immediately. Considering the drawback with the first batch that decision seems to have paid off.

As to your emotional stance I hope you wont have to tell that to a judge when all the non tested board that have been sold as production boards turn out to have bugs and people want their money back, because that judge couldn't give a (..)

I myself will just wait till the guinea-pigs are done and buy one in due time or wait till something else (I didn't even say better) comes along. Becouse frankly the foundations communication has put me on the wrong foot once to often.

[cashaw]

This almost reminds me of ordering my BBC-B in 1983 and then having to wait 2 months until it arrived in stock ! Waiting "28 days for delivery...." was once the standard.

I have nothing to complain about the situation, both this forum, Farnell and RS have given communication about expected delivery. Our lives will not be shorter or wasted if we need to wait for a month or so extra. What is the problem ?

In my work life I have to deal with delays of new hardware on a daily basis, what the R-Pi has had to put up with is nothing short than normal for me.

Perhaps even the iPAD3 has actually been delayed by 3 months due to manufacturing and delivery issues, but we would never know or concern ourselves about it unless Apple had promised the release two months ago.

The foundation has been refreshingly open about the issues which effect those of us in hardware manufacturer and the problems which always occur with the first batches of new hardware.

[jamesh]

Seem to be a lot of people asking why they haven't heard any news, and complaining about the lack of information

Well, anyone considered it might be because there simply isn't any?

Should the Website have an exciting new blog post...?

"Fantastic News. After much rushing around and collating of information....there isn't anything to report. Zilch, Nada, rien, not a sausage. Not a single piece of interesting news has occurred since the last blog post. Woooot!!!"

Not that exciting then...

[gritz]

JamesH said:


Seem to be a lot of people asking why they haven't heard any news, and complaining about the lack of information

Well, anyone considered it might be because there simply isn't any?

Should the Website have an exciting new blog post…?

"Fantastic News. After much rushing around and collating of information….there isn't anything to report. Zilch, Nada, rien, not a sausage. Not a single piece of interesting news has occurred since the last blog post. Woooot!!!"

Not that exciting then…


See my last post about maintaining radio silence to customers.

Fair enough that forum admins and Pi fans want to remain relentless upbeat (and on the other side "haters gonna hate"), but if you have no news – just say so!

On a wider note I find that certain elements within the Free/Open Source community don't take criticism of their favourite applications well, but they do no favours to the community as a whole by acting agressively when defending those applications.

[gritz]

gritz said:


JamesH said:


Seem to be a lot of people asking why they haven"t heard any news, and complaining about the lack of information

Well, anyone considered it might be because there simply isn"t any?

Should the Website have an exciting new blog post…?

"Fantastic News. After much rushing around and collating of information….there isn"t anything to report. Zilch, Nada, rien, not a sausage. Not a single piece of interesting news has occurred since the last blog post. Woooot!!!"

Not that exciting then…


See my last post about maintaining radio silence to customers.

Fair enough that forum admins and Pi fans want to remain relentlessly upbeat (and on the other side "haters gonna hate"), but if you have no news – just say so!

On a wider note I find that certain elements within the Free/Open Source community don"t take criticism of their favourite applications well, but they do no favours to the community as a whole by acting agressively when defending those applications.

edited for speeling!

[gritz]

Woops! triple post. It'll be good when the new forum software gets here and puts the blockquote tab in the right place. I must have hit "quote" instead of "edit". Noob error.

[Lynbarn]

roelfrenkema said:


Lynbarn said:


I very much doubt that any of the foundation members are exactly sitting around twiddling their thumbs, and whilst there may be some people disadvantaged by having their $35 "tied up", what about those same foundation members  who have had their homes tied up for many months so that they could bring you the 'Pi?


I feel tear sprouting and a mea culpa, but to be honestly when Farnell told me I would have to wait till late April and had the nerve to ask me for money I canceled immediately. Considering the drawback with the first batch that decision seems to have paid off.

As to your emotional stance I hope you wont have to tell that to a judge when all the non tested board that have been sold as production boards turn out to have bugs and people want their money back, because that judge couldn't give a (..)

I myself will just wait till the guinea-pigs are done and buy one in due time or wait till something else (I didn't even say better) comes along. Becouse frankly the foundations communication has put me on the wrong foot once to often.


Emotional stance? well I won't have to say anything to a judge, and the reason there is currently a delay is precisely because the foundation DID test the boards.  If you'd rather I put it more bluntly, to all those bemoaning the fact that they haven't got their 'Pi delivery date, even though they've maybe paid out "vast sums" of money:


Get over it guys, you won't get your 'Pi until you get your 'Pi – if you don't like that, ask them for your money back, and go buy something else with it.

[Morgaine]

JamesH said:


Seem to be a lot of people asking why they haven't heard any news, and complaining about the lack of information

Well, anyone considered it might be because there simply isn't any?

Should the Website have an exciting new blog post…?

"Fantastic News. After much rushing around and collating of information….there isn't anything to report. Zilch, Nada, rien, not a sausage. Not a single piece of interesting news has occurred since the last blog post. Woooot!!!"

Not that exciting then…


That's why I suggested that the Foundation maintain a simple 5-row box containing 2 numbers and 3 dates.  If the community knows that you update the box with the latest info you obtain from Farnell and RS *every day*, then not so many people will be asking for news every day (only those who can't read — nothing you can do about those).

And we'd be able to point news seekers to the info box -- lots of bandwidth saved.

[Lynbarn]

The Daily Pi 16 March 2012

STOP PRESS!

First batch of Raspberry Pi seized by HM Government – none available for sale!

The British Government has today announced that the first batch of 10,000 – and the next 990,000 – Raspberry Pi single-board, credit-card sized computers due off the production lines are to be retained for government use in an undiscolsed location.

Sources close to the government suggest that a massive network of the machines, nicknamed "The SuperBramble v2.0", is to be used by HMRC, The Treasury and Defra for calculating worldwide import and export tax rates for electronic items.

A spokesperson for the Federation stated that as a result, it was unlikely that any Raspberry Pi computers would be available to the general public in the UK, EU or ROTW until 1st April 2022

Is this the sort of news people want to hear?

[Lynbarn]

Morgaine said:

That"s why I suggested that the Foundation maintain a simple 5-row box containing 2 numbers and 3 dates.  If the community knows that you update the box with the latest info you obtain from Farnell and RS *every day*, then not so many people will be asking for news every day (only those who can"t read — nothing you can do about those).

And we'd be able to point news seekers to the info box -- lots of bandwidth saved.



On the face of it, that does sound like a good idea, and I'm sure it will be considered - among several other ideas that have come from this forum and elsewhere - not that the information you suggest is available yet.

[poing]

Something like this? http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Morgaine]

That information certainly *is* available to Farnell and RS.  For it to not be available would be tantamount to them not knowing what they're doing.

The proposal was that the Foundation OK it with Farnell and RS to collate their individual data into a joint set of figures, so that neither manufacturer is identified directly.  This would keep the Rpi community well informed about progress, and forestall 10 billion requests for updates over the coming months.

And it would *feel* right for everyone concerned, not treading on the manufacturer's toes, not applying pressure to either of them directly, and giving the entire process a nice foundation of openness and clarity.

Morgaine.

[Phil Spiegel]

"The proposal was that the Foundation OK it with Farnell and RS to collate their individual data into a joint set of figures, so that neither manufacturer is identified directly."


However: with only 2 contributors, the  individual totals would not be 'lost' in the combined data: each distributor would be able to subtract their figure from the total, and derive their competitor's … which probably does happen at the factory whilst a single source is beoing used.. 

Competition Law and Madarins may look upon this as a form of Cartel… they might be risking this anyway with matching prices! …. however this is probably avoided because the Foundation has effectively specified the base price … but if their delivery charges matched in all territories!……

If this forum had auto-sound accompaniment, it should be playing 'Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie' constantly at present, or a child's tantrum!

A small group of people have worked voluntarily for about 6 years in an endeavour to improve UK IT education. THEY have mortgaged their houses  (OT: was it A British bank that provided money??? -they don't usually believe in investing in British Industry and Innovation, and probably few directors have engineering or scientific qualifications) to finance the run of 10,000 boards aimed at Developers to help them complete the documentation and support for a full launch later this year.

However, in the days of the WWW and instant gratification and demand, as well as some misquoting by reporters around the world; that batch has been oversubscribed >20x, and also delayed a few weeks. No one paying by credit card will have had their cards debited by either the Foundation OR the distributors .. until they actually ship.  None of the boards will be used in life-support sysytems – so delay is not life threatening.

And remember these are bare-boards shipping – not a 'ready to go consumer system'. – Cancel your order NOW if you didn't realise that …. others can then move up in the queue

[Customers paying by cash would always have to pay in advance... but always have the choice of waiting until items are shipping from stock]


Whilst many suppliers might 'quote' prices 'inclusive' of local taxes (as is common outside the USA for consumer items) and so-called 'free shipping'; the openess of the egalitarian pricing policy worldwide means that these are being visibly added on top; and it is not for the Foundation or Distributor to evade due taxes on your voluntary purchase.

I can't park my car at my local station, for 1 day, for the cost some are complaining about for shipping around the world! Neither can I reclaim VAT or 'local taxes' back from my annual tax bill! (And at 1.469GBP per LITRE for Diesel; I regret I won't be attempting to get it autographed by Liz and Eben at the foundation, but will patiently wait for it to arrive in the post, at an as-yet unspecified time in the future this Spring.

[jamesh]

Apropos of nothing, I filled up my car with petrol last night. I have to fill up about once per week.

It cost £62 (approx $100) . That's 2.5ish Raspberries.

[meltwater]

It'll probably cost over 3 soon...will be an extra 3p/l coming soon thanks to our wonderful government.  Soon it'll cost more to go to work than you earn.

[Tass]

Just to clarify:


I think the Foundation are doing an amazing job
Liz & Eben definitely deserve their break
Everyone should be grateful they're being included in this pre-release development product

But....

I think communication is the key here.  Last week we were told that the board were being repaired and if things went well they would be air freighted back on Monday.

I don't really care whether they have or not, but if no one tells me anything then I would assume that everything is on track.  I don't care if they'll be another month or two. I would like to be kept up to date though.  Even if I'm told that they're still being worked on, being tested, being packed, stuck at the airport, in customs - any of those updates will be a welcome update.  Maybe it's a little needy, or my mild OCD kicking in, but a lot of people on these forums feel like they're part of this project, so would like to know what's happening - good or bad.

That said, I'll sit back and wait patiently now

[alexeames]

JamesH said:


Apropos of nothing, I filled up my car with petrol last night.


I tried that once. It stank for weeks. I always put it in the tank now. :p

Like others, I got up and got registered by 0601, but guess what? I'm not getting one of batch 1 (data lost in RS server meltdown). Disappointing? Yes. But tough luck. Excrement happens!

All the whingers need to grow up and put this in perspective. Your moaning makes you look like a bunch of spoiled kids, who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas, looking to hurt mum and dad who did their best for you. I wonder what it'll be like once the "consumers" who bought them start to receive them? That could be a SHTF moment in the forums.

This is a massive success for the Raspberry Pi foundation. I'm delighted for them. Also delighted that it's spurred me to get back into programming. Thanks for that guys.