ghellquist
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Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:04 am

Your wishes on the next steps.

Please, skip all the wishes for features on the next Pi on this thread.

The foundation is doing a lot of fantastic things, bringing computing into economic reach for a lot of kids, allowing them to do hands-on with computers, making software useable and available (example, Mathematica is normally out of reach for kids).

What should be in the future (and no, not the next Pi again)?

- 3D printer?
- Robots?
- AI hardware and software?
- Language translation software?
- Chemistry lab in a box?
- A personal quantuum computer?
- Bitcoing miner?

And remember, maybe not for you personally, but for the kids (as is the foundations aim), which will enter the world as better at using computers for new, unheard of projects.

/Gunnar

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:11 am

What should be in the future
Good news : (Nearly) ALL of your projects can already be realized TODAY with our little pi.
More good news: All of them can be done by yourself. So raspberry foundation isn't needed here.

Example: "personal quantum computer"
With some help from googles open source "cirq" you can simulate your own quantum computer, write and run your first "quantum programs" on your little pi :

1) Introduction video : https://youtu.be/16ZfkPRVf2w
2) Basic docs : https://cirq.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
3) For the scientists: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1807.10749.pdf

Don't ask raspberry foundation to do it for you.
Do it yourself.
Start now.

michael
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jamesh
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:42 am

It's a rare occurrence indeed for a Foundation employee to be monitoring these forums. Lots of technical Trading side people, but not Foundation. So Foundation comments should be directed at them, although I have no idea how you would talk to the Foundation directly.

That said, nothing in the OP's post is new, must be lots of examples at the end of a Google search.
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GlowInTheDark
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm

Typical Unix Haters Guide responses here: "You could do that".

I think OP's point is that it is GOOD to have sponsored/tested/approved solutions to things. The idea that everybody should re-invent every wheel, is, well, just not in keeping with the modern world.

The fact that all of these things COULD be done individually, by each and every person, is irrelevant to OP's point.

A point I tend to agree with...
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:22 pm

GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Typical Unix Haters Guide responses here: "You could do that".

I think OP's point is that it is GOOD to have sponsored/tested/approved solutions to things. The idea that everybody should re-invent every wheel, is, well, just not in keeping with the modern world.

The fact that all of these things COULD be done individually, by each and every person, is irrelevant to OP's point.

A point I tend to agree with...
While I agree with you in the abstract, there is a very real point behind the "you could do that concept". Partly entrenched in the idea of what is important to you may not be important to others and partly in the idea of many hands make light work. "You" truly have all the tools at your disposal to do stuff and especially at the entrance cost a Pi imposes playing/experimenting/learning is well within the reach of a greater number of folks that ever before.

The TRS80 which was the first "home computer I played with" was $599 USD back in 1977. That was more than 2 weeks work, for me as a teenager with a decent full time job. My son's 4B 4GB represents what he makes for mowing 3 lawns. Not quite an apples to apples comparison since that does not cost in the monitor, but most folks have a TV they could us in a pinch. Look at the launch prices of the Commodore Pet, Commodore 64, Apple I or II. We have never had it better.

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bensimmo
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:45 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:42 am
It's a rare occurrence indeed for a Foundation employee to be monitoring these forums...
Which is an absolute shame, since there are 128* of them listed here https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/meet-the-team/ excluding the Trading Team. (*55 are 'managers')
You'd think they would want to ask, get feedback and talk to their direct community, on their own forum they have linked to all their projects on the website.
No wonder everyone keeps repeating and asking questions on Facebook groups and pretty much all of them avoid even looking at this website, lots of miss-information passed around too and poor advice passed around. Since there is no central point of contact for everyone to go.
No matter how many links I put up to getting started and info.

You can see that repeated on the blog, anything but Hardware on the website get little response.
Surly it should be the educational wing doing the documents making them child friendly and whatnot, not the technical staff writing it in technical understanding.

Saying that I'm not sure what the foundation does now. Run a few code clubs and help setup the computing course at the stem learning centre?
Where do they all 'hang out'?

Trading do a great job in here, much better than when I first joined :-)

Saying that, the OP's thought's all seem to be hardware based, so would need Trading to make and sell it?
I assume, from what has come so far, it usually means someone has an interest there and then follows up with it.. if there is a good reason for it... and it semi doable let's give it a go..
AstroPi/SenseHAT is a good example. It's just some LEDs and sensors anyone could put together with a bit of googling.
The advanced camera, obvious links with the magazine and probably somebody's hobby and skills. Anyone could put and modify a high-end webcam, couldn't they?
WeatherStation, never really became a 'RPi kit you could buy', shame as many are trying to set them up.

Here's to whatever the team dream up next.

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thagrol
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:14 pm

GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Typical Unix Haters Guide responses here: "You could do that".
Not sure quite what you mean here. Care to elaborate?
I think OP's point is that it is GOOD to have sponsored/tested/approved solutions to things. The idea that everybody should re-invent every wheel, is, well, just not in keeping with the modern world.
I don't believe that's the idea. And there is no need to reinvent anything most of that thind on the OP's list are only a web search away. That there may not be a ready to run product probably means that it's not viable, which is in keeping with the modern world.
The fact that all of these things COULD be done individually, by each and every person, is irrelevant to OP's point.

A point I tend to agree with...
Which point? Again I'm not sure what you mean here.


As for some of the things on the OP's list, I just don't see how they fit in the RPF's stated aims. How does a "bitcoig miner" and a "Chemistry lab in a box" fit in with enabling computing education for kids? And that's setting aside all the potential issues with hazardous chemicals* and the eventual bursting of the crypto coin bubble.

Some of the other items on the wish list seem to have been made with little regard to just how hard they are to do (and consequently the cost involved in doing them).

*: It's been decades since anything very interesting was available in chemistry sets. Health & Safety killed them.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:29 pm

GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm
I think OP's point is that it is GOOD to have sponsored/tested/approved solutions to things.
I back that. The mentioned "Quantum Computer Simulator" is such a tested, ready to use solution (based on python3 and easy to run). Problem solved. No further work required. To a large degree the same with the other OPs projects.

Another Example: Artificial Intelligence
He can buy Intels Neural Compute Stick (Movidius Myriad) or ASUS Chromebit CS10 add on (cost about 50-100 $) This are tested (though not Foundation certified) solutions. Or use the neons in his Pi ( and arms neon lib, linear algebra ) Or use the "old", very well documented QPUs in his "old" zero, Pi2,Pi3 or the "new" QPUs in his "new" PI4 .... Really a lot of solutions for his raspberry pi - some of them are plug-and-play.

Another Example: robotics :
Lego ??
GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm
The fact that all of these things COULD be done individually, by each and every person, is irrelevant to OP's point.
In fact it is not required to invent solutions individually. They are already invented. BTW.: Looks like the OP is interested in Education. There is no way to learn things without doing them / taking practice. Individually.

michael
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:16 pm

Actually...the one thing I'd like to see (but it's more an RPT thing than an RPF thing and I don't think it will ever happen) would be the 10" display Dr. Upton mentioned back when the 7" display was being developed. Best of all (if it happens at all), given the amount of bezel the 7" display has, if a 10" display would fit in the same space. I would buy at least two, and--if the size criteria is met--at least 3.

And regards jamesh comment about contacting the RPF...there are ways.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:34 pm

GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Typical Unix Haters Guide responses here: "You could do that".
It is indeed frustrating when something could be done, but no one has done it, when no one is interested in doing it, or helping do it, guiding or mentoring, and you are basically on your own.

And it's even worse when one doesn't currently have the skills to to do it oneself or its obviously too much work to do one's self.

But that's often the reality of it, and one cannot simply demand that it's not, insist it be otherwise.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:43 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:45 pm
I'm not sure what the foundation does now.
https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/ab ... 932020.pdf

I suspect a good part of not appreciating the different roles which RPF and RPT have is because everything falls under the brand name "Raspberry Pi". They were initially one and the same and, even though RPT is now a wholly owned commercial subsidiary, the separation is often not as clear to some as it could be.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:50 pm

Just a minor gripe of mine.
GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm
The idea that everybody should re-invent every wheel, is, well, just not in keeping with the modern world.
One of those things that everyone says, without thought.

If inventing wheels were easy, it wouldn't have needed the Egyptians to do it - Neanderthal Man would have had roller-skates.

If you don't believe me, try it yourself - starting with the axle.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:04 pm

Ah, the humble wheel. Probably the most reinvented thing ever invented. Likely because the idea has been around such a long time.

Take a look around a count how many different wheels you can find. Car wheels, bicycle wheels, pulley wheels, gear wheels, fly wheels and so on and so on. All subtly or not so subtly different. About the only thing they have in common is being round and rotating.

I was checking out a new kind of wheel I had not seen up close before. On a big digger machine. Rubber tires but no inner tube. A hydraulic motor in the middle.

And what about those funky omni-wheels?

There is no sign of the wheel not being reinvented any time soon.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:40 pm

hippy wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:43 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:45 pm
I'm not sure what the foundation does now.
https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/ab ... 932020.pdf

I suspect a good part of not appreciating the different roles which RPF and RPT have is because everything falls under the brand name "Raspberry Pi". They were initially one and the same and, even though RPT is now a wholly owned commercial subsidiary, the separation is often not as clear to some as it could be.
Hence my common usage of RPF/RPT.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:57 pm

After a bit of reflection, it occurs to me that there is something that falls within the remit of the RPF that would be a very beneficial (for education) project to tackle...

Work with the major suppliers of video conferencing (Zoom, Google, MS and any others) commonly be used by schools to get such software working well on at least the Pi4B. Even if only with an RPT-produced camera as the only choice, and allowing for a USB to headphone/mic adapter. I say this in light of the school closures and "distance learning" of the last 3 months and the likelihood of more of the same later this year.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm

hippy wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:43 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:45 pm
I'm not sure what the foundation does now.
https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/ab ... 932020.pdf

I suspect a good part of not appreciating the different roles which RPF and RPT have is because everything falls under the brand name "Raspberry Pi". They were initially one and the same and, even though RPT is now a wholly owned commercial subsidiary, the separation is often not as clear to some as it could be.
I know what their aims are. I've seen and talk to one or two of them on Twitter and Pi Jams.
But with 55 manager and 128 staff in total, you'd think you would notice them a bit more, telling you what they do on blogs and what they've achieved, showing off. Hey I know more than most Computer Teachers about what they are doing and it's them they are targeting in the UK with a large investment. I've had to explain it to quite a few of them.

They need to blow their own trumpet a bit more, more so than some random project they found on the internet.
The Educational Magazine Hello World is good though.

The last Education side is here a few days ago https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/how-we ... g-methods/ and just one comment. Show people reading are not that interested? Don't come here to read because there is nobody here to talk to so in turn goes around in circles.

Anyway,
Wishlist for the Foundation. Just become more involved with the community on your internet doorstep.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:24 pm

On the RPT side... Adding audio input in the future could, I think, be a useful addition. I can think of four ways right off to make it available. How feasible each would be is another matter altogether.

(Funny, isn't it, how many wished for features are so exotic. I mean, bitcoin miner? Where something with--potentially--quite broad application and actually useful in education gets missed by commenters here.)

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:26 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm
hippy wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:43 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:45 pm
I'm not sure what the foundation does now.
https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/ab ... 932020.pdf

I suspect a good part of not appreciating the different roles which RPF and RPT have is because everything falls under the brand name "Raspberry Pi". They were initially one and the same and, even though RPT is now a wholly owned commercial subsidiary, the separation is often not as clear to some as it could be.
I know what their aims are. I've seen and talk to one or two of them on Twitter and Pi Jams.
But with 55 manager and 128 staff in total, you'd think you would notice them a bit more, telling you what they do on blogs and what they've achieved, showing off. Hey I know more than most Computer Teachers about what they are doing and it's them they are targeting in the UK with a large investment. I've had to explain it to quite a few of them.

They need to blow their own trumpet a bit more, more so than some random project they found on the internet.
The Educational Magazine Hello World is good though.

The last Education side is here a few days ago https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/how-we ... g-methods/ and just one comment. Show people reading are not that interested? Don't come here to read because there is nobody here to talk to so in turn goes around in circles.

Anyway,
Wishlist for the Foundation. Just become more involved with the community on your internet doorstep.
I know in the background they are doing good stuff
The trouble with any company being a high proportion of managers, there no-one left to do any work.

Interesting fact. There is no-one in the Foundation side who has been there from the start. The last person to leave who was there from the beginning (well almost) is was Ben Nuttall who now works for the BBC.

In Trading, there is Eben, Liz, G, J1, J2, D, S, Me (although I was not employed from the start), E, N, and we have no staff turnover at all. Lots of people taken on from Broadcom when they closed the Cambridge office. Only one person has left IIRC, he formed Magic Pony and sold it to Twitter for $150M, so he has an excuse.

Very different places.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:35 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm
But with 55 manager and 128 staff in total...
Are you sure, that sounds pretty top heavy!
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bensimmo
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:44 pm

lurk101 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:35 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm
But with 55 manager and 128 staff in total...
Are you sure, that sounds pretty top heavy!
follow the link to meet the team, then count them (or search and remove the RPT one)
Note how small RPT is, or at least have on that page, especially when you consider the RPI Press and magazine people are in it as well.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:17 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:44 pm
lurk101 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:35 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm
But with 55 manager and 128 staff in total...
Are you sure, that sounds pretty top heavy!
follow the link to meet the team, then count them (or search and remove the RPT one)
Note how small RPT is, or at least have on that page, especially when you consider the RPI Press and magazine people are in it as well.
Comms team (they deal with social media, graphics designers, video guys etc) , RPI Press/magazines are all part of Trading. There are about 75 of us altogether in Trading IIRC.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:03 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm
But with 55 manager and 128 staff in total...
I suspect you have a very out of date idea of what having "manager" in a your job title means.

The days of it meaning you run a team, department, etc are long gone. Likewise are the days of everyone who runs a team or a department etc being called a manager (there are several "Head of" people/positions which are more traditional management jobs). Having manager in your title might mean you're in a traditional management role, it might not.

A cursory look at https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/meet-the-team/ suggests that many of thsoe "managers" are managing things and not teams of people.

Without a organisation chart we'll never know.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:26 pm

Gave ghellquist a week off for insulting the RPF members with this ridiculous post.

please don't pretend you know better than the RPF.

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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:08 am

Reopened as the discussion was thought provoking. despite the OP's original premise being a bit flaky.

One thing worth noting about the Foundation side - they have declared themselves platform agnostic i.e. they do not prioritise the Raspberry Pi itself over other platforms. I guess to increase reach to those who are on standard PC's or laptops.
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Re: Wish list for the foundation

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:53 am

That is somewhat shocking news. When did that happen?
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