TheEponymousBob
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:08 pm

While I'm sure the Raspberry Pi will help a little, I'm afraid Microsoft's just scooped you with the perfect scheme to get kids programming: Visual Studio Achievements.

Ah well, fun while it lasted.

(do I need a here?)

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rurwin
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:22 pm

O.M.G.

There goes the standard of coding in Visual Studio. Right down the pan.

"Why didn't you do it the simple way?"

"This way earned me a badge."

mightygoose
Posts: 85
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:25 pm

That's just obscene.. I mean god almighty. microsoft are partly responsible for ruining gaming. now they want to help ruin programming as well. Why do we have to be told we have achieved something? can we not make the distinction of achievement on our own!

is completion not satisfying without a little bubble/badge to tell you you have done it?

i long for the days where it was 100% and you had to read a guide or spend hours replaying to figure out what that last 0.3% was. rather than agreyed out achievement telling you what to do to earn it.

nichobb
Posts: 82
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:26 pm

Whilst a tongue in cheek post, it shows a good way of getting humans involved and keen to learn.
I even thought about gamifying work for data staff – but dismissed it as overly manipulative (back to the whip), I would consider if had more time to work with staff to develop the system with them.

Hope there is a badge for commenting code.

jamesh
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:31 pm

Cool. I can get more points by using obscure bits of VS, and writing incomprehensible code. Sorry, I meant sophisticated code. Or writing bad code but lots of it.

On the other hand, what a load of old w**k.
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stevescat
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:29 pm

Anyone else hate and detest the word 'Gamification'?

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Chromatix
Posts: 430
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:14 pm

OMFSM, I wish it was 1st April right now.


Don't Try This At Home




Field Master(0 points)
Have 100 fields in a single class. Gnarly! Uses FxCop



Go To Hell(0 points)
Use of the goto keyword. Um, I heard it was a best practice that you weren't supposed to do that anymore.



Job Security(0 points)
Write 20 single letter class level variables in one file. Kudos to you for being cryptic! Uses FxCop



Magic Numbers(0 points)
Write a enum with 30 fields. Who needs numbers when you've got words! Uses FxCop



Overload(5 points)
More than 10 overloads of a method. You could go with this or you could go with that. Uses FxCop



Scroll Bar Wizard(0 points)
Write a single line of 300 characters long. Who needs carriage returns? Uses FxCop



Turtles All The Way Down(0 points)
Write a class with ten levels of inheritance. Now that's a sweet inheritance! Uses FxCop.



Yes, those are among the "achievements".  Does anyone wonder why Microsoft's software is so frequently bloated, unstable and insecure?

Fortunately it costs a lot more to get into the M$ development world than the R-Pi.
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

tufty
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Holy ghod.

Microsoft. Have. No. Fscking. Clue.

hedgehog
Posts: 20
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:59 pm

Why is Magic Numbers bad ?, and what is the alternative ?

The rest I can understand.

obarthelemy
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:07 pm

It find it actually funny. Kinda like those WoW achievements that require you to do the exact opposite of what's supposed to make things go smoothly. The Leeeeeeeeeroy ! achievement was very popular when it appeared (http://www.wowwiki.com/Leeroy_.....ins_(video) )

richardp
Posts: 117
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:26 pm

VisualStudio is the least of the cost.... Hardware and OS are still needed too
RaspberryPi's galore
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TheEponymousBob
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:48 pm

In all fairness, had this been a Google Labs add-on, people would be calling it a cute giggle. I was joking about it being a boon to education, but I don"t think it"s fair to lambast MS for raising a smile.

Bakul Shah
Posts: 324
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:26 pm

tufty said:


Holy ghod.

Microsoft. Have. No. Fscking. Clue.


Fsck is a perfectly good word. Please don't waste it on Microsoft!

For some reason "Studio Achievements" makes me think of "microsoft bob". Anyone remember that? : )

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Chromatix
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:35 pm

hedgehog said:


Why is Magic Numbers bad ?, and what is the alternative ?

The rest I can understand.


Okay, consider this pseudo-C code to print out Pythagorean Triples:

for(x=1; x < 30; x++)

for(y=x; y < 30; y++)

if(!fractional(sqrt(x*x + y*y)))

printf("%d, %d, %dn", x, y, (int)sqrt(x*x+y*y));

In this case the instances of "30" are a magic number which indicates how far the search will go.  The fact that I had to repeat it indicates why it is bad – if I want to search up to 50 or 1000, I now have to edit two places in the code.

If I first say "const int searchLimit = 30;" and refer to this constant in the loop definitions, then I only have to change one place when the problem parameters change.

In C, magic numbers also frequently pop up as a way to simplify memory management, particularly with string handling which is particularly awkward in this language.  You allocate a buffer of a fixed length and then - ideally - supply that length to the string functions so that they don't overflow that buffer.  If you get the magic numbers mismatched in that case, the result is often a security bug of one kind or another.
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

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Chromatix
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:53 pm

Continuing post...

Using an enum with lots of entries is actually not bad practice in the right place.  Typically in that case, the values are used to switch between different behaviours or to name hardware registers, thus making the code much more readable (and the API easier to maintain) than the alternatives.

As an example, look at the transition from OpenGL 2.x to 3.0 - note just how many functions are marked as deprecated, because they are now covered by "vertex attributes" to programmable shaders.
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

ElectronPusher
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:37 am

Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:31 pm

Chromatix said:


OMFSM, I wish it was 1st April right now.


Don't Try This At Home




Field Master(0 points)
Have 100 fields in a single class. Gnarly! Uses FxCop





Go To Hell(0 points)
Use of the goto keyword. Um, I heard it was a best practice that you weren't supposed to do that anymore.





Job Security(0 points)
Write 20 single letter class level variables in one file. Kudos to you for being cryptic! Uses FxCop





Magic Numbers(0 points)
Write a enum with 30 fields. Who needs numbers when you've got words! Uses FxCop





Overload(5 points)
More than 10 overloads of a method. You could go with this or you could go with that. Uses FxCop





Scroll Bar Wizard(0 points)
Write a single line of 300 characters long. Who needs carriage returns? Uses FxCop





Turtles All The Way Down(0 points)
Write a class with ten levels of inheritance. Now that's a sweet inheritance! Uses FxCop.





Yes, those are among the "achievements".  Does anyone wonder why Microsoft's software is so frequently bloated, unstable and insecure?

Fortunately it costs a lot more to get into the M$ development world than the R-Pi.



The good news is that they are shown as things not to do, and the appearance of these zero-point badges will indicate to the user things they need to fix, not things to attempt.

Steady_Bear
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:06 pm

Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:37 pm

TheEponymousBob said:


In all fairness, had this been a Google Labs add-on, people would be calling it a cute giggle. I was joking about it being a boon to education, but I don"t think it"s fair to lambast MS for raising a smile.



Mostly because Google don't have a bad name for butchering the computing world.

MS = Boy who cried wolf ?

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Chromatix
Posts: 430
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:25 pm

Here's the thing.  If *I* didn't notice at first that there were different points values attached to these, how will a beginner programmer?  They'll just see the badges and think they are aspirations.
The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

ElectronPusher
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:37 am

Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:37 pm

Chromatix said:


Here's the thing.  If *I* didn't notice at first that there were different points values attached to these, how will a beginner programmer?  They'll just see the badges and think they are aspirations.



I hear ya.   I also like the "Running with Scissors" graphic on the badges for dangerous practices.   Though, perhaps, a red circle with a slash through it would be more attention-getting...

TheEponymousBob
Posts: 205
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:45 pm

Chromatix
Here"s the thing.  If *I* didn"t notice at first that there were different points values attached to these, how will a beginner programmer?  They"ll just see the badges and think they are aspirations.


I rather doubt a beginner programmer would be using the plugin. Isn"t this a bit like complaining that Laurel and Hardy promoted poor ladder-carrying technique? Sense of humour and all that?

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riffraff
Posts: 307
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Re: Game over

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:03 pm

I was wondering what they were going to do with all those leftover Halo coders when Bungie split... Hey!  If I blow up Redmond HQ does I get a "Death from the Grave"?

nichobb
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Game over

Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:28 pm

riFFraFF:


I was wondering what they were going to do with all those leftover Halo coders when Bungie split… Hey!  If I blow up Redmond HQ does I get a "Death from the Grave"?


In before riFFraFF gets interviewed by FBI, involving rubber gloves and no lube most likely.
If from UK, include extradition without evidence before …

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