hippy
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ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 12:31 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772

"UK-based chip designer ARM has told staff it must suspend business with Huawei, according to internal documents obtained by the BBC.

ARM instructed employees to halt "all active contracts, support entitlements, and any pending engagements” with Huawei and its subsidiaries to comply with a recent US trade clampdown."

In a company memo, it said its designs contained "US origin technology".

As a consequence, it believes it is affected by the Trump administration's ban.

One analyst described the move, if it became long-term, as an "insurmountable" blow to Huawei's business.

He said it would greatly affect the firm's ability to develop its own chips, many of which are currently built with ARM's underlying technology, for which it pays a licence."

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... off-huawei

"Intel, Qualcomm, Broadcom, and Xilinx have also announced they are suspending sales of products to Huawei as well."

That will probably send a cold shiver through any technology company, knowing how damaging 'being banned' can be.

I am not convinced losing access to ARM licensed technology will be insurmountable. It is, no doubt, going to hurt them a lot, especially short term, but they could move to something else. For example RISC-V.

It is exactly this sort of situation which is driving China, India and others to invest in RISC-V, to liberate themselves from reliance on US and western technology. The current situation is only going to give them more impetus to do so.

Perhaps Huawei will be the first out of the door with a RISC-V based mobile ?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 3:03 pm

I see the RISC-V monorail is still operating...

What I'm rather more concerned about is what effect--if any--that idiot in Washington's import duties will have on the price of Pis. It's not like the supply chain can absorb a 25% duty. On the other hand, it may shift shipments to the US to being exclusively from the Pencoed factory. On the gripping hand, are all models of Pi (such as the--currently in short supply--CM3+ boards) made in Wales?

Heater
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm

W. H. Heydt,
I see the RISC-V monorail is still operating...
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? I'm not sure I get your idea there.
It's not like the supply chain can absorb a 25% duty.
I suspect they cannot and will not. They will just have to pass it on to their customers. Demand will drop as a result and we all suffer.
On the other hand, it may shift shipments to the US to being exclusively from the Pencoed factory.
Perhaps.

Given that most of the components are not made in Wales, that is only board assembly and test, I guess their expenses will be stretched. Either the Pi price rises or they close up shop and everyone is looking for work soon.

Either way we all suffer.

jamesh
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 4:25 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm
W. H. Heydt,
I see the RISC-V monorail is still operating...
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? I'm not sure I get your idea there.
I think it because every time a chip/ARM story comes up, you churn out the same RISC-V line. Every time.


As for the story itself, IMO, it's part of the trade war. Nothing to do with security at all. Just an excuse for the unintelligent occupant of the White House to bring in more protectionism, despite that being a terrible medium/long term strategy, as the incumbant would know if he actually knew anything. It's going to harm more US companies than it helps. The US are unintentionally trying to make themselves less relevent. There are alternatives to ARM, Huawei can use them. Not cheap to develop new product, but entirely possible. and the companies that will suffer? Qualcomm, ARM, Broadcom. Huawei make a LOT of phones, and the majority of their market is outside the US.
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 4:45 pm

Code: Select all

Just an excuse for the unintelligent occupant of the White House to bring in more protectionism, despite that being a terrible medium/long term strategy, as the incumbant would know if he actually knew anything
He won't be around much longer. Hopefully the damage can be corrected in time.
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hippy
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 5:26 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:39 pm
Yes this story has been plastered over the WWW, and most of the "crap" is totally gibberish, just like this thread.
Not quite sure what you are seeing as "gibberish" or even "crap".

It seems to me that Huawei has three options; comply with whatever Trump/America demands of them, throw in the towel and retire, or find some other way to keep doing business.

If it's the later, and they can't get their hands on the technology they have been using any more, they'll have to find some other way.

That might not be RISC-V, but it very well could be. Especially given their Gold membership of the RISC-V foundation, the amount China, as well as India, have been investing in RISC-V R&D.

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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 5:33 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:25 pm
... the unintelligent occupant of the White House ...
A good proportion of the US population voted for their current president, and are presumably happy with their choice, even if the more vociferous minority don't like it.
but, do we have to have politics brought in here?

Heater
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 6:42 pm

jamesh,
I think it because every time a chip/ARM story comes up, you churn out the same RISC-V line. Every time.
I protest. Please don't put words into my mouth. I posted, I did not mention RISC V.

Anyway here is my take on things...

It seems the doom of ARM is closer than even I could have imagined a week ago. But please don't think I wish doom on them. I certainly do not.

This trade embargo may only be a temporary political hiccup. Or Huawei may be harmed of even put out of business by it. It makes no difference either way.

ARM has effectively committed suicide by complying with this madness. Sending a clear message to the world that they cannot be relied on to be the sole supplier of a foundational part of ones business.

Pretty much everyone will be looking at alternatives even harder than they were before.

I agree, jamesh, it's a terrible medium/long term strategy.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 6:54 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:42 pm
jamesh,
I think it because every time a chip/ARM story comes up, you churn out the same RISC-V line. Every time.
I protest. Please don't put words into my mouth. I posted, I did not mention RISC V.

Anyway here is my take on things...

It seems the doom of ARM is closer than even I could have imagined a week ago. But please don't think I wish doom on them. I certainly do not.

This trade embargo may only be a temporary political hiccup. Or Huawei may be harmed of even put out of business by it. It makes no difference either way.

ARM has effectively committed suicide by complying with this madness. Sending a clear message to the world that they cannot be relied on to be the sole supplier of a foundational part of ones business.

Pretty much everyone will be looking at alternatives even harder than they were before.

I agree, jamesh, it's a terrible medium/long term strategy.

Google already has a stay of execution..

SoftBank are just being cautious....

HiSilicon not Huawei deal with SoftBank regarding licences to manufacture ARM SoCs, therefore SoftBank would have to revoke all current and previous licensing agreements....

Huawei will find a way to survive despite what embargo the USA put in place...
adieu

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jamesh
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 8:26 pm

Burngate wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:33 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:25 pm
... the unintelligent occupant of the White House ...
A good proportion of the US population voted for their current president, and are presumably happy with their choice, even if the more vociferous minority don't like it.
but, do we have to have politics brought in here?
I think the evidence speaks for itself - its not a political point at all. Trump is simply not very bright, and remarkably ill informed on many topics.

The fact that many people like him and vote for him is irrelevent to the point.
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 8:27 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:42 pm
jamesh,
I think it because every time a chip/ARM story comes up, you churn out the same RISC-V line. Every time.
I protest. Please don't put words into my mouth. I posted, I did not mention RISC V.

Anyway here is my take on things...

It seems the doom of ARM is closer than even I could have imagined a week ago. But please don't think I wish doom on them. I certainly do not.

This trade embargo may only be a temporary political hiccup. Or Huawei may be harmed of even put out of business by it. It makes no difference either way.

ARM has effectively committed suicide by complying with this madness. Sending a clear message to the world that they cannot be relied on to be the sole supplier of a foundational part of ones business.

Pretty much everyone will be looking at alternatives even harder than they were before.

I agree, jamesh, it's a terrible medium/long term strategy.
Apologies, I keep thinking you and hippy are the same person.
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 9:21 pm

Please limit your discussions to people outside the White House (and, on balance, people outside the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party). This thread is Off-Topic, but technology-related. Politics threads get deleted quickly.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 10:11 pm

The "monorail" remark was, indeed, a "one track mind" reference.

The whole situation is political. No way to get around *that*.

Bear in mind that the incumbent is there only because of the peculiarities and concerns of the 18th century framers of the US Constitution. He won because of the way the Electoral College works. He actually lost the popular vote, by about 3 million votes. (Historical note... There was a segment of the US population that really hated FDR. They would refer to him as "that man in the White House" rather that say his name.)

Yes, it's *terrible* policy, regardless of term.

And invoking HiSilicon doesn't help. They're a subsidiary of....Huawei.

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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 10:15 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:27 pm
Apologies, I keep thinking you and hippy are the same person.
I'm not sure how either of us are meant to take that :!: :!: :!:
:D

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Re: ARM, Broadcom pull the plug on Huawei

Wed May 22, 2019 10:16 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:11 pm
The whole situation is political. No way to get around *that*.
In that case, this thread is done-zo.
Rockets are loud.
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