Heater
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:00 pm

jamesh,
A screenshot of a Scratch program is no different from anything you might place in....
Apart from not being able cut and paste it from the code blocks in the web page to an editor for editing or file for running.

Can't diff it or use version control on it either. Can't us it as patch.

An image is essentially useless to present programs. Unless one is happy to manually recreate it manually from sight.

jamesh
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:31 pm

Heater wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:00 pm
jamesh,
A screenshot of a Scratch program is no different from anything you might place in....
Apart from not being able cut and paste it from the code blocks in the web page to an editor for editing or file for running.

Can't diff it or use version control on it either. Can't us it as patch.

An image is essentially useless to present programs. Unless one is happy to manually recreate it manually from sight.
Not useless at all. If you want to look at the code, in a visual programming language like Scratch, you look at an image, which is what I was getting at. If you look at the underlying 'binary', its mostly unreadable. Patches, version control etc are not things that are particularly relevent to Scratch programs.

Instead of code tags on here, then compare it more with a program listing in a magazine (e.g. Wireframe).
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hippy
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:01 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:19 pm
A screenshot of a Scratch program is no different from anything you might place in blocks on here...
All what Heater said. Assuming it's not unreadable through sizing or compression, there's nothing one can instantly do with that but look at it.

That's a real PITA if one wants to use it, or the poster is hoping for help with debugging it, or they are reporting some kind of bug they hope gets investigated or resolved.

The main problem is there's no copy-paste-and-use option available.

If one wants to use it, run or debug it, one has to copy it by hand and that can be a lot of work for all but the most trivial of visual programs. For some visual languages what's shown doesn't always provide the full settings used for a particular visual block.

And one can never be sure that what is shown in the screenshot image is how it actually is for them, exactly what is in the program file. Good luck telling which whitespace is a space or tab, or how many spaces there may be, trying to guess if they've added whitespace in their text which may not be obvious from the screenshot.

When a user provides the actual program file, loading it will show the same visuals and also allow it to be run, and debugged with minimal effort.

I think the worst I've encountered has been a phone photo of a textual program shown on a monitor, pasted into a Word .docx file, embedded in a .zip file.

indianbill007
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 pm

Hey Guys am wondering if social media apps like fb, insta or twitter can be used on a pi?

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DarkPlatinum
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Fri May 03, 2019 10:56 am

indianbill007 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 pm
Hey Guys am wondering if social media apps like fb, insta or twitter can be used on a pi?
The Pi could handle Facebook and twitter, but at a slow pace. Instagram cannot be viewed on a Raspberry Pi.
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DaveyDave1999
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Sun May 12, 2019 7:13 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:56 am
Instagram cannot be viewed on a Raspberry Pi.
Thats not true. It works flawlessly on my Pi3B?
Blog about Raspberries coming soon...

tech-projekte
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Sun May 12, 2019 7:33 pm

DaveyDave1999 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:13 pm
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:56 am
Instagram cannot be viewed on a Raspberry Pi.
Thats not true. It works flawlessly on my Pi3B?
That's great to hear! Which browser do you use?

I'm currently using chromium, however I do experience some hiccups here and there after opening more than 5 tabs.

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Re: is the pi worth it?

Sun May 12, 2019 8:21 pm

tech-projekte wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:33 pm
...
I'm currently using chromium, however I do experience some hiccups here and there after opening more than 5 tabs.
I'm impressed you get that many open - I normally top out at three and try and keep it down to one.

Linux Format magazine have published a good review of the Midori Browser - I think this was the browser originally on the Pi till Chromium replaced it :lol:

I find Chromium (and Chrome) so memory hungry now I've gone back to Safari on the Mac :shock: :roll: :shock:
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Gavinmc42
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am

I'm currently using chromium, however I do experience some hiccups here and there after opening more than 5 tabs.
I tested Firefox to 30 tabs on Gentoo64 when Sakaki first released it, just got tired of opening tabs.

New version of Chromium on Gentoo64 seems to take even less memory.
Both are ok for surfing the web for info.

Using Raspbian is not so pleasant.
The Fifth browser worked great on PiCore but I have not tried it on Raspbian or Gentoo64.
Do you want ads with that?
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 8:46 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am
I'm currently using chromium, however I do experience some hiccups here and there after opening more than 5 tabs.
I tested Firefox to 30 tabs on Gentoo64 when Sakaki first released it, just got tired of opening tabs.

New version of Chromium on Gentoo64 seems to take even less memory.
Both are ok for surfing the web for info.

Using Raspbian is not so pleasant.
The Fifth browser worked great on PiCore but I have not tried it on Raspbian or Gentoo64.
Do you want ads with that?
The amount of memory used is on the whole independent of the bit depth the OS runs at, so I would not expect any noticeable difference between Chome on 32bits and Chrome on 64bits. i.e. moving to 64bits does not miraculously decrease the memory requirements of the browser.
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 9:09 am

moving to 64bits does not miraculously decrease the memory requirements of the browser.
I think it was the fact that Sakaki had newer versions of Firefox and Chromium which utilized memory better.

When Gentoo64 first came out Firefox was the better browser, now Chromium is ahead in recent updates.
It will probably ping pong between the two every release or so?
Probably the only way to tell is try the same version in 32 and 64bit.

Start here for testing this?
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=232417&start=75
How many tabs will open?

The browser software is getting better on Pi's.
At which point it become usable to the user is up to the user to decide.
It depends on what they want to do with them.

For just looking at Wikipedia, $35 is worth it. Typing a few emails, writing a novel....
Watching YouTube? Some improvements and tweaks are needed?
$35 puts Pi's right on the edge case scenarios, chasing a moving edge too ;)
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LTolledo
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 9:43 am

I share to you my current Chromium tab lineup...

on my USB SSD boot RPi3B+.... with 1024MB swap

as long as I dont open Google Map, the most tabs I had opened was 20 (I think, could be a bit more....)

with all the "clutter" its still running smooth (and cool, see temp above)....
myRPi3B+Desktop.jpg
myRPi3B+Desktop.jpg (104.01 KiB) Viewed 1449 times
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stuartiannaylor

Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 am

Andyroo wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:21 pm
tech-projekte wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:33 pm
...
I'm currently using chromium, however I do experience some hiccups here and there after opening more than 5 tabs.
I'm impressed you get that many open - I normally top out at three and try and keep it down to one.

Linux Format magazine have published a good review of the Midori Browser - I think this was the browser originally on the Pi till Chromium replaced it :lol:

I find Chromium (and Chrome) so memory hungry now I've gone back to Safari on the Mac :shock: :roll: :shock:
All browers on the Pi have some sort of problem, Chromium with the latest release seems to be having some upstream issues where it seems far less optimised than it once was. If this can be fixed and improved maybe but seems to crop up in a regular cycle.
VC4 proprietary and age wise is the same cyclic fixes that often come unstuck via upstream changes.

Pi value is its ecosphere and still in comparison is vastly more stable than the majority of clones from projects, addons, hardware to documentation and software it has vastly more scope than any other.

Raspberry do need to get there skates on though as with kernel 5+ inclusions and opensource mali drivers for other chipsets coming mainstream the 'oddness' of the original design that has been brought forward, probably already for too long is going to negate much of its value.

From $5 - $35 it still represents extremely good value but its lead has certainly diminished substantially.

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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 11:23 am

stuartiannaylor wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 am
Andyroo wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:21 pm
tech-projekte wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:33 pm
...
I'm currently using chromium, however I do experience some hiccups here and there after opening more than 5 tabs.
I'm impressed you get that many open - I normally top out at three and try and keep it down to one.

Linux Format magazine have published a good review of the Midori Browser - I think this was the browser originally on the Pi till Chromium replaced it :lol:

I find Chromium (and Chrome) so memory hungry now I've gone back to Safari on the Mac :shock: :roll: :shock:
All browers on the Pi have some sort of problem, Chromium with the latest release seems to be having some upstream issues where it seems far less optimised than it once was. If this can be fixed and improved maybe but seems to crop up in a regular cycle.
VC4 proprietary and age wise is the same cyclic fixes that often come unstuck via upstream changes.

Pi value is its ecosphere and still in comparison is vastly more stable than the majority of clones from projects, addons, hardware to documentation and software it has vastly more scope than any other.

Raspberry do need to get there skates on though as with kernel 5+ inclusions and opensource mali drivers for other chipsets coming mainstream the 'oddness' of the original design that has been brought forward, probably already for too long is going to negate much of its value.

From $5 - $35 it still represents extremely good value but its lead has certainly diminished substantially.
I disagree, but on the other hand we do have our skates on. We have a problem when compared to other SBC manufacturers; we have a reputation to maintain, which means our product needs to work, and work well. Many competitors release stuff that hardly works, is not well supported, or fails to perform as advertised. If we do that we get slated in the press, on the forums, everywhere . If they do it, because their market is so small, no-one cares. Of course, as more stuff get upstreamed, the work required for these people becomes less to get decent performance, and we are aware of that. Suffice to say to we know what needs to be done to keep our lead, and we are doing it. We won't be giving up our advantage any time soon. Pi3+ still has plenty of life in it, and Pi4 will be a great follow on.
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 1:40 pm

The other problem RPi has, is somebody will always find fault in it. Be it $5 at release time or have everything people asked for $35

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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 3:15 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:40 pm
The other problem RPi has, is somebody will always find fault in it. Be it $5 at release time or have everything people asked for $35
We are only too aware of the "Well, it doesn't do this, which I think is essential, so therefor it must be rubbish" statement. Along with the "My laptop which cost $300 does it, so why doesn't the Pi?" and "Well, this SBC does it so you must be years behind the times". We've heard it all. And more. All from the people who really don't have any idea of what is and isn't possible.

When the Pi4 releases, judging by the specs, it is going to be AWESOME*, we will still get the same old complaints, probably from the same old people. You get used to it!

* Built in sandwich toaster and pink unicorn, dancing on a rainbow.
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 4:00 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:15 pm
* Built in sandwich toaster and pink unicorn, dancing on a rainbow.
I'm not sure I want the sandwich-toaster feature. Would it be possible to custom order one without?

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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 4:45 pm

ejolson wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:00 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:15 pm
* Built in sandwich toaster and pink unicorn, dancing on a rainbow.
I'm not sure I want the sandwich-toaster feature. Would it be possible to custom order one without?
NO CUSTOM ORDERS!

(That's another whine "I don't need the blah blah, why don't you make one without it?")
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 4:55 pm

But does it have Marmite?

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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 5:53 pm

rpdom wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:55 pm
But does it have Marmite?
It doesn't come with the brown stuff, but you can always get a pot and lather it up with it. I don't expect it will work well afterwards, it has salt and other stuff in it that will cause shorts and corrosion. :mrgreen:
Not to be recommended, I recommend you simply eat it.... Its delicious (but you may disagree).

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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 pm

rpdom wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:55 pm
But does it have Marmite?
Now that’s a question to split the community if I’ve ever read one - maybe time to delete a few posts off here (inc this one)...
Need Pi spray - these things are breeding in my house...

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davidcoton
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 8:39 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:15 pm
* Built in sandwich toaster and pink unicorn, dancing on a rainbow.
I think there is a serious Safety Elf issue here. :shock:
What happens if the unicorn slips on the rainbow (which can get icy), and falls into the toaster while it is hot? :o
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LTolledo
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 10:31 pm

Well, you cannot please everybody, that's for sure...

Its worth it for those who want it to be / make it so...

not worth it to those who just see faults or those with (ultra) high expectations not being met...
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Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

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Gavinmc42
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm

Toasters, unicorn .... please, back to the point - AWESOME :D
When the Pi4 releases, judging by the specs, it is going to be AWESOME*
The current 3B+ is nearly awesome in that it is usable for 99% of cases.
If you remove YouTube viewers from the equation then it works pretty good.

To fix that issue is there a non browser based YT viewer?
I don't know or care because YT is not what I use Pi's for.

Hang on what? Specs. There are Pi4 specs floating around.
Is it just me salivating? "Ooh shiny, I want" :lol:
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Re: is the pi worth it?

Tue May 14, 2019 12:52 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm
Hang on what? Specs. There are Pi4 specs floating around.
Is it just me salivating? "Ooh shiny, I want" :lol:
Only if you can plant a hidden mic in Pi Towers.

As for me...I will be happy to get Pi4s pretty much without regard to specs, as it's essentially a given that they will meet or exceed the Pi3B+. As I've noted from time to time, the only "wish list" item I have is faster I/O. Anything else falls into the "nice to have, but not essential" category.

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