hippy
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 10:50 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:51 am
Have you seen this?
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/ ... g-2019-05/
Discussed here ... viewtopic.php?t=239812

Heater
Posts: 12205
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 11:51 am

jahboater,
Have you seen this?
Yes, it's been underdicussion in the "For Sale" department since a few days back. Looks wonderful.

I had already been following other Kendryte K210 boards Seeed have out.

Fifty dollars or so gets you that module on a board with a camera and a screen. There are demos on youtube of it doing super quick face detection.

RISC V on a HAT is hat I had been dreaming of for a while. That chip has far more on it than I would have hoped for.

Only the first ripples of the coming RISC V Tsunami that will doom ARM :)

hippy
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 1:02 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:51 am
RISC V on a HAT is hat I had been dreaming of for a while. That chip has far more on it than I would have hoped for.
This Grove RISC-V AI HAT is similar to what I had been hoping RPF/LowRISC would bring out when the RPF joined the RISC-V consortium - but this has a lot more than the "RISC-V chip on a HAT" I was imagining.

I have zero interest in AI or Edge stuff, but it seems a good price for the RISC-V stuff alone as things currently stand. Just need to find time to read-up on it, investigate its software, and see how usable it is for native RISC-V development and experimentation.

Heater
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 2:58 pm

hippy,
This Grove RISC-V AI HAT is similar to what I had been hoping RPF/LowRISC would bring out when the RPF joined the RISC-V consortium - but this has a lot more than the "RISC-V chip on a HAT" I was imagining.
I had the same thoughts here. On both counts.
Just need to find time to read-up on it, investigate its software, and see how usable it is for native RISC-V development and experimentation.
My only RISC V experiments have been with Clifford Wolf's picorv32 core in Verilog for FPGA here:
https://github.com/cliffordwolf/picorv32

I just borrowed his RISC V core verilog and set about writing my own memory system and peripherals for it in Verilog. UART, GPIO, Timer. As a way of getting familiar with Verilog. It runs on my Terassic DE0-Nano Cyclone FPGA board.

A useful thing here is that Clifford has nice clear instructions on building a RISC V cross-compiler (GCC) in the picorv32 repository. Also some nice examples of how to build and link some firmware for the picorv32. Those instruction likely work on a Pi as well.
Last edited by Heater on Fri May 10, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hippy
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:58 pm
My only RISC V experiments have been with Clifford Wolf's picorv32 core in Verilog for FPGA here:
I have a RISC-V toolchain set-up, though I would have to check exactly what since that got side-lined for a while, plus my own tools. I suspect it needs a refresh anyway as this is 64-bit and I have so far only focused on 32-bit.

It was more the 'how one gets executables from a Pi into the HAT and running' and 'how one uses the K210 and Pi together' software I need to investigate. There seems to be a way to use the K210 as if an Arduino using the Arduno IDE, MicroPython for it, plus a variety of other SDK and some Python tools. I just haven't figured out what's what, what does what, and what I would need, yet. Mostly because I haven't found the time to.

Elaine.Wu appears to work for Seeed, looks to be the Grove AI HAT's 'product champion', and is posting on this forum, so I imagine we could have a lot of support and help at hand.

hippy
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 5:56 pm

This also looks interesting as a 'coming soon' product from Seeed; the Maixduino, a classic Arduino footprint board using the exact same Sipeed MAix module with Kendryte K210 RV64GC CPU as on the HAT.

https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2019/0 ... nvironment

That feels more appealing to me at this point in time, though I'm sure prices of each will play a part in which I would plump for.

Heater
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 6:46 pm

Elaine.Wu seems quite responsive to queries. Perhaps we we hassle her enough we can get some interesting things done.

Turns out the Chinese government is putting money into RISC V using companies in China:

"Our Passion on the Popularization of RISC-V": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnZsf-9x9WA

hippy
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 8:30 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:46 pm
Turns out the Chinese government is putting money into RISC V using companies in China:
No surprise. One should see how much India has invested. As I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread; it's a golden opportunity for countries to liberate themselves from technological reliance and dependency on the west and all which comes with that. We in the west rarely appreciate how strong the desire for that is.

ARM, and Intel, may not be doomed, but they're going to be hit hard as other countries choose to move away from their offerings. Particularly the two which host more than a third of the world's population.

Heater
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Fri May 10, 2019 8:54 pm

Interesting. Given that ARM now belongs to SoftBank. Which is Japanese. Perhaps China want's to depend on them even less...

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Sat May 11, 2019 8:09 am

I have no idea who this Kendryte is but they seen to have come out of nowhere with a seriously interesting chip.
And with a product ideally targeted for people like us :D

This is not like when the ESP8266 first came out and it needed a hacker to crack the usability of it.
Nope, this K210 chip come with lots of tools out of the gate.

AIoT is something the Pi can do and is of interest to me and has been for a few years.
But this is AIoT ready out of the box :o

Everyone knows ARM has sold billions and is everywhere.
Everyone knows or suspects IoT is many times bigger than existing markets.
This things is coming out into the AIoT market and shooting holes in ARM's markets.

Is ARMed doomed?
Perhaps this K210 is the first of a few nails in the ARM coffin?

What happens when there are more in this family.
Lower power single core RISC-V32, Octal core 64bit ones....

Western dominated chip market?
This is the writing on the wall in big letters.

The Chinese have been making low cost micros for years.
8bits ones for cents, there is a post on here about that one.
Buy a cheap mouse or keyboard these days it will have a Chinese chip in it.

There are now a few PCBs with this Sipeed Maix-1 module, not as low priced as a Pi Zero, but affordable for the first generation.
Sure it is only dual core 400MHz and low ram, but with Ultibo on Pi's 4MB kernels are on the large size for me.

FreeRTOS will be smaller, perhaps even MS will get involved and ThreadX will run on it :lol:
https://www.technolution.eu/en/industry ... isc-v.html
Whoops done already :o
Not sure why I am surprised.

Most of these tools are Realtime or Linux or cut down AI tools.
With chips like these exploring new software methodology will be fun.

I expected PI's to keep me busy for the next 10 years.
Now these get added to the mix, "oh shiny, I want".
I'm in the last 1/4 of the baby boomer generation, according to latest research I could be around and active for another 30 years :o
Going to need a hobby or two :lol:

Research is also saying the first person who could live to 1000 years could be alive right now :o
Assuming of course we don't wipe ourselves out with AI rampaging bots.

Saw a video by one of the heads of HP, "The Future of Computing" last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIB6r-74VII
He was putting money on RISC-V, the future is now?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

jahboater
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Sun May 12, 2019 8:42 am

Heater,

A new version of GDB was released yesterday with support for RISC-V

Code: Select all

GDB 8.3 includes the following changes and enhancements:

  * Support for new native configurations (also available as a target
    configuration):
     - RISC-V GNU/Linux (riscv*-*-linux*)
     - RISC-V FreeBSD (riscv*-*-freebsd*)

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Burngate
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Re: Is ARM doomed?

Sun May 12, 2019 10:26 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:09 am
...
Western dominated chip market?
This is the writing on the wall in big letters.

The Chinese ...
I already find it difficult to read many datasheets, so I hope Google Translate improves its Mandarin

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