Prometheus
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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:33 am

tntexplosivesltd said:


I think you'll find that those are all libraries licenced under OSS licences that someone has ported to Mac. They were made for the *nix platform first, by other people.


That's correct - and Apple contributes back to them. It's noted right on the link I gave, though admittedly my wording on said link could have been better - I was, at the time, referring to the things they've made open source themselves, which are part of the list.


Apple still is incredibly monopolistic.


I'm pretty sure that Apple has neither exclusive control of a particular market, nor a government-granted right to such.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:53 am

The patent office says otherwise.

Anyway, off topic. =D

Prometheus
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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:04 am

tntexplosivesltd said:

Anyway, off topic. =D
Yes.

Back to the topic at hand, I do find it disingenuous that Microsoft has previously claimed that they would allow users to make decisions themselves, and then turned around and done this...

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:44 am

The more alarming fact is that MS and Apple and Intel have lost lawsuits about their hardware and locking it down and they continue to do so.

Sony is in on it too as are many other manufacturers, The PS3 originally allowed Linux but is now made to not allow it's use. The PSP has long been a source of battle as it gets hacked as much as an Iphone does, yet their updates for PSP remove your chosen software all the time.

Xbox360 updates are a choice but if you don't update then you lose live after awhile.

ON AND ON these companies are about greed rather than consumer satisfaction they lock-down their software and hardware supposedly to protect the public and themselves But what they are really protecting is their market share.

Let DRM reign and to hell with the consumer.

The only people who don not have rights is the consumer if they had their way you would just buy their product and shut up about you owning the hardware.

Even the game Manufacturers are in on it now with things like steam/battlenet Etc. as you only own a right to use the software license but don't really own the game at all and they are even fighting your right to sell your account if you want too.

Worse yet is if they choose to not support that game anymore then you loose the ability to play at all.
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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:11 am

I don't know why this discussion is even happening.  Win 8 won't run on the R-Pi so it is irrelevent.  There won't be a compatible version.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:24 am

Jessie said:


I don't know why this discussion is even happening.  Win 8 won't run on the R-Pi so it is irrelevent.  There won't be a compatible version.



I guess it's more due to the precedent than the software itself. That's how I'm seeing it, anyway.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:45 am

tntexplosivesltd said:


The patent office says otherwise.


monopoly : the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service

patent : a government authority to an individual or organization conferring a right or title, esp. the sole right to make, use, or sell some invention



A patent (or portfolio thereof) might be used by someone with a monopoly to protect that monopoly, but it doesn't make a monopoly in of itself.  Yes, many patents are stupid, and some are applied for in a way that abuses the relevant patent office, but the patent itself is a reasonable concept.  The usual way they are used is via cross-licensing, where company X gets to use inventions controlled by company Y and vice versa.  The absence of patents would result in a whole lot more corporate espionage suits, as the inventions that are currently patented (and thus available for the world to peruse) would be, instead, classed as trade secrets.

Software patents are a whole different can of worms, of course.



Some people in Apple would probably like to have a monopoly, but that doesn't mean they have one.



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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:00 pm

Jessie said:


I don't know why this discussion is even happening.  Win 8 won't run on the R-Pi so it is irrelevent.  There won't be a compatible version.


It certainly will struggle on the current version of the Raspi, but what if in a years or so a newer verion comes out with a faster SoC?

Although since we use Linux be default, I don't think this is an issue anyway.
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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:15 pm

I"m sure if Raspi reached a critical mass you would see MS develop a version of Windows to run on it if they thought it would turn a good profit. Look at Win CE for example.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:11 pm

Joules said:


Look at Win CE for example.


Eugh!  Do we have to?

I suspect that this is exactly what's going to happen.  If RasPi gains significant traction in schools, either MS will get a "subsidised" Win CE/Embedded/Mobile platform out to schools for free, or there will suddenly be a port of one of the embedded Win platforms for the Pi.  Either / or will be "sold" on the grounds that they are "standard", and "work within existing infrastructure".

Yes, I'm a depressing old cynic.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:43 pm

tufty said:

I'm a depressing old cynic.
Yes you are, but you are probably right.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:24 am

The Windows 8 only locks out devices that are to be LOGO'ed with the windows logo. It is part of microsofts requirements to carry their logo. you should be able to get around this on devices that do not carry the microsoft logo. It is a custom boot option to do away with the UEFI. There is going to be ARM and Intel in the future of portable devices. there is just too much money in them for Microsoft or intel any any of the major manufacturers or software companies to ignore it.
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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:29 pm

If Windows 8 ARM is attractive enough, there is a huge hacking community centered around the Tegra2 tablets released this year that are in the process of being replaced with new hardware... I don't see it as an impossibility that Windows 8 might find it's way onto non-OEM devices given the success rate of developing Linux drivers for Tegra2 and porting Ubuntu and other distros to work on those tablets. If the hardware is sitting idle/cheap, software applications will follow.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:55 pm

tufty said:


Joules said:


Look at Win CE for example.


Eugh!  Do we have to?


There's a reason why its abbreviation resembles the word "wince", I suppose.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:53 pm

There was a magic moment in the 1990s when the Microsoft Windows lineup was:

CE.ME.NT

'nuf said.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:58 pm

I wasn't sure if I should post these here or on the "You Suck thread", but after my earlier post, I thought I would await your comments.

http://www.osnews.com/story/25.....Using_UEFI

And

Microsoft To ARM Win8 Tablet Makers: No Dual Boot For Youutm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29

Same thing written slightly differently.

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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:16 pm

tufty said:


I suspect that this is exactly what's going to happen.  If RasPi gains significant traction in schools, either MS will get a "subsidised" Win CE/Embedded/Mobile platform out to schools for free, or there will suddenly be a port of one of the embedded Win platforms for the Pi.  Either / or will be "sold" on the grounds that they are "standard", and "work within existing infrastructure".

Yes, I'm a depressing old cynic.


And as another commenter said, probably correct

There's ample precedent for MS moving to squash any computing movement that might pose a threat to it - remember the netbook? I don't mean the "small laptops" we've seen in recent years: I'm talking about the "real" netbooks, like the OLPC and the Eee 700-series - compact computers for use in schools, with solid-state storage and a Linux OS. As soon as MS realised that these machines were taking off, and that people wanted them... well, you know the rest.

Assuming the R.Pi "takes off", especially in the education market, I reckon it's a matter of time before MS wakes up and moves to head it off, somehow. I want an R.Pi before that happens...

(BTW: almost every time people see me using my Eee 701, I either get asked "wow, that's neat; where did you get one?", or "isn't it too small?" I expect I'd get that even more if I owned an R.Pi )
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Re: Microsoft and ARM

Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:06 am

My memory is getting worse. I intended to add this, to my post #41 http://www.digitimes.com/news/.....PD209.html just to muddy the waters.

My take is, no dual boot on arm tablets, and apple size prices on everything else. Not a good sign for future pc sales

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