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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:34 pm

Lob0426 wrote:I own a Panda Board as well as 5 Raspberry Pi's. I may decide to buy other boards also. The foundation will not really suffer from this as I have bought 7 Raspberry Pi's (I have given 2 away). So my discussing other boards, as long as I am not "promoting" someone elses board, will probably have no real effect to the foundation!

Also this thread is not really that "hot" so its overall impact is pretty low in my opinion. Assuming I am allowed an opinion! :lol:
The difference being Lob0426, that you are a long standing and respected member who has put a huge amount into the Raspberry Pi community** (and you don't start every other post with "Have you seen this awesome Panda Board doo dah?" ;))

**Thanks by the way, we appreciate it!

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:10 am

That may be true of the OP, I confess that I have not researched his posts to see if he is promoting the cubieboard. It is interesting, but this forum is for "promoting" the Raspberry Pi.

Though the discussion may bring up other products, people need to keep in mind the purpose of this forum!

Discussion I would vote yes.
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:46 pm

Lob0426 wrote:That may be true of the OP, I confess that I have not researched his posts to see if he is promoting the cubieboard. It is interesting, but this forum is for "promoting" the Raspberry Pi.

Though the discussion may bring up other products, people need to keep in mind the purpose of this forum!

Discussion I would vote yes.
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Honest, I'm just genuinely happy that the pi demonstrated there's a market for these kind of devices and therefore spawned a flood of them.

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:03 pm

rvalles wrote:
Lob0426 wrote:That may be true of the OP, I confess that I have not researched his posts to see if he is promoting the cubieboard. It is interesting, but this forum is for "promoting" the Raspberry Pi.

Though the discussion may bring up other products, people need to keep in mind the purpose of this forum!

Discussion I would vote yes.
Advertising! Definitely not!
Honest, I'm just genuinely happy that the pi demonstrated there's a market for these kind of devices and therefore spawned a flood of them.
Interesting quote from Eben in the ZDNet article...
He points out that the Cubieboard and other potential Pi killers are generally based on 1GHz Allwiner A10 chips, which are built around the ARM Cortex A8. While the chips carry out memory access operation tens of a percent faster than the Pi, Upton says their floating point operation and multimedia performance is far worse.

"If someone came along with something that was based on a good, fast AP [ARM processor] at $50 then I would be very concerned," he said.

"There's a number of people out there who market these boards saying 'Three times the performance of the Raspberry Pi'. I can't find a single benchmark that runs at that.

"I do find it annoying that people, and sometimes the manufacturers, naively claim that they're faster than the Pi when in practice they aren't."
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:29 pm

jamesh wrote:
rvalles wrote:
Lob0426 wrote:That may be true of the OP, I confess that I have not researched his posts to see if he is promoting the cubieboard. It is interesting, but this forum is for "promoting" the Raspberry Pi.

Though the discussion may bring up other products, people need to keep in mind the purpose of this forum!

Discussion I would vote yes.
Advertising! Definitely not!
Honest, I'm just genuinely happy that the pi demonstrated there's a market for these kind of devices and therefore spawned a flood of them.
Interesting quote from Eben in the ZDNet article...
He points out that the Cubieboard and other potential Pi killers are generally based on 1GHz Allwiner A10 chips, which are built around the ARM Cortex A8. While the chips carry out memory access operation tens of a percent faster than the Pi, Upton says their floating point operation and multimedia performance is far worse.

"If someone came along with something that was based on a good, fast AP [ARM processor] at $50 then I would be very concerned," he said.

"There's a number of people out there who market these boards saying 'Three times the performance of the Raspberry Pi'. I can't find a single benchmark that runs at that.

"I do find it annoying that people, and sometimes the manufacturers, naively claim that they're faster than the Pi when in practice they aren't."
If limited to free software (no gpu blobs on either side) then multimedia-wise they're both massively slow.

The hope is reverse-engineered drivers. On that, the lima project will likely soon release something that works while there isn't (afaik) anything public on progress reversing the pi gpu.

I got a cubie (haven't received it yet, however) with intent to play with the pure microkernel systems (genode, minix) that recently got ported to ARMv7.

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:53 pm

rvalles wrote: If limited to free software (no gpu blobs on either side) then multimedia-wise they're both massively slow.

The hope is reverse-engineered drivers. On that, the lima project will likely soon release something that works while there isn't (afaik) anything public on progress reversing the pi gpu.
Actually, you don't need to hope because you can use the Foundation provided drivers for the Raspi GPU and get great performance. Better than anything that will ever appear from a reverse engineered driver. Probably the same with Mali and Lima - it'll be some time before the reverse engineered driver get anywhere near as good as the supplied ones.

If you don't use the supplied driver? Well, I think you may be biting off your nose to spite your face, but RMS would be proud.
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:39 pm

First, I do not see ARM as a X86 killer. Those processors are just to powerful for ARM to catch up to anytime soon. Simple tasks like web browsing can be really slow compared to any of the X86, including my Atom 330. Even with the power backing the Panda ES this is true.

Where I think ARM, is and will continue to excel, is building smart devices and or appliances. I see a day in the near future where A Rep Rap or Makerbot will come with it's own rolled in design and control, standalone. Smarter Routers that will combat the ever growing attacks on people's networks, as they try to steal your personal info for their gain. Robotics seem to already be gaining higher resource control solutions than were available just a few years ago.

What it is going to take is some differing SoC's that have different balances of their core units. For that Makerbot you will need balanced power from the CPU and GPU. For that Smart router you will not need much GPU but a good CPU. And for that Robot again you will not need much GPU but a good CPU and better "real time" processing.

Some of these will need multiple "boards" to carry out their roles. X86 has proven too expensive too really do any of these well. It also is wasteful of power in most cases.

So back on topic.

There are no RasPi killers out there that I see so far. The cubieboard is inexpensive but at $45 to $49 is 40% more expensive than a RasPi. It does have some extra features, but it does not have as powerful GPU. On the other hand it does have a bit more powerful Processor. Also I have seen no real goal stated for the cubieboard. I see it might be better at being a server but not quite up to snuff as a media center.

Anyone who decides to make a RasPi killer is going to have some hard choices to make, if they are trying to make profit. Conversely trying to build a device that will take RasPi market share, by having more features, yet keep the device inexpensive is in for some work also. All those features on a Panda board come at a price, about 5 times the price overall.

There are some other considerations as well, other than just price point. There is about twice the operating systems available for a Raspberry Pi as any other board currently offered. So wider exposure. And there are an awful lot of people involved in the RasPi, people that could not afford the other boards that are out there.

The Raspberry Pi has proven there is a market for inexpensive computing devices. The real question is will they be willing to put the time in to having developed software to make their board successful? An ARM board without software is a paper weight to most of us!

A Raspberry Pi in the hand is worth a lot more than any other board still out in the bush! :lol:
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:59 pm

I'm confused:
Quote from Eben in the ZDNet article...
"If someone came along with something that was based on a good, fast AP [ARM processor] at $50 then I would be very concerned," he said.
Yet on the Foundation's own website, there is this following statement:
"We want to see cheap, accessible, programmable computers everywhere; we actively encourage other companies to clone what we’re doing."
Am I missing something?
Surely part of this encouragement is mentioning these "other companies"?

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:14 pm

Rene_is_I wrote:I'm confused:
Quote from Eben in the ZDNet article...
"If someone came along with something that was based on a good, fast AP [ARM processor] at $50 then I would be very concerned," he said.
Yet on the Foundation's own website, there is this following statement:
"We want to see cheap, accessible, programmable computers everywhere; we actively encourage other companies to clone what we’re doing."
Am I missing something?
Surely part of this encouragement is mentioning these "other companies"?
No need for confusion. The Foundation's charitable aim is to get more people interesting and working with computers as programmers. They are attempting to do just that by producing the Raspberry Pi computer. The profits from that make furthering the the aims of the Foundation achievable easier. If another device came along, as Eben suggested, then overall, that's a good thing for the Foundations aim's but not for the Foundation itself, as that would reduce its income, and therefore its ability to achieve those aims itself. So continued survival of the Foundation itself depends on selling Raspi's.
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:31 pm

jamesh wrote: If another device came along, as Eben suggested, then overall, that's a good thing for the Foundations aim's but not for the Foundation itself
Bit of a catch-22 situation.

Max

Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:47 pm

Lob0426 wrote:There are some other considerations as well, other than just price point. There is about twice the operating systems available for a Raspberry Pi as any other board currently offered. So wider exposure.
Would argue that the opposite is true.
Major projects like Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora do supply (ARMv7) packages optimized for other boards, but not for the Pi.
No need for other boards to start projects like Raspbian, when you already have the upstream vendor doing the work for you...

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:44 am

Max wrote:
Lob0426 wrote:There are some other considerations as well, other than just price point. There is about twice the operating systems available for a Raspberry Pi as any other board currently offered. So wider exposure.
Would argue that the opposite is true.
Major projects like Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora do supply (ARMv7) packages optimized for other boards, but not for the Pi.
No need for other boards to start projects like Raspbian, when you already have the upstream vendor doing the work for you...
And there is some truth to that.

What I am talking about is things like RISCOS and plan9 and others. It is easier to find ports for SoC's that have v7 instructions. Some of those vendors have not fully brought the GPU drivers up in those releases. Example; there are excelerated drivers for Ubuntu and the Panda. But I am not sure any of the other distributions have them. The ones that are available can probably be used on other Debian based releases. They probably do not work in the Android release for it.

That is the sticking point for ARM based boards. The CPU's are pretty much standard type to type, but the GPU are all different and need development to work. The OS may work just fine but the GPU drivers may be pretty plain.

I am sure that if the Foundation decides to build future models they will use a newer ARM version, if nothing else to make the OS development a whole lot easier on them. That will still leave the GPU development in their hands and Broadcoms possibly. With the production figures reaching a million I hope the Foundation will have even more help from Broadcom if they develop a new project!
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:49 pm

Maxion wrote:As we can see with the Pi making a cheap board is not all plain sailing. The Pi has a couple of bus (Especially with USB) that seem to be hard to track down and fix.

Most likely the cubieboard has similar problems, especially since it has more hardware than the PI does.
Are you kidding? Pi is ONLY board that reboots on connect USB because of poor board design. Pi USB is BIG crap. Even keyboards can't work with Pi.

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:38 pm

ddv2005 wrote:Even keyboards can't work with Pi.
Woah. I've just got a magical keyboard that works with the Pi :lol:

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:11 am

I four different "Magic Keyboards" that work with the RasPi just fine. I will sell all of them really cheap, only $500 dollars apiece!

Sorry, you are way off base ddv2005.

There are some problem devices out there, I have found that true even for "real" (Dell i7 2600k) computers. I have a USBasp atmel programmer that refuses to setup on this computer. And of course there will be devices the cubieboard is not going to like either.
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:15 pm

Several observations on the comparison between Pi and Cubie.

Pi runs on 700mA. Cubie specs 2A. 5v 2A power supplies are *much* harder to locate than 5v 1A ones, especially now that there are enough Pis out there for people (like Adafruit) to make good power supplies specifically for the Pi. In addition, the power connector for the Cubie is an odd ball barrel connector--or, at least, there doesn't seem to be any standard size for such. It is a sufficient problem that the Cubie ships with its own power cable. That's something the Pi doesn't need to do.

The Cubie does have some features that (a) can be useful if you need them, and (b) can be used to justify the higher price. Among them are: a power switch, a SATA port, 1GB of memory.

My current primary use requires 6 Pis as work stations and I'm starting to set up 2 Cubies to act as servers for the work stations (two Cubies for a redundant MySQL database). Since I have other uses, plus a "development" board, I actually have 10 Pis. I have 4 Cubies so that I can have a "test and development" system (the only one I've set up so far...and that only partially) and a spare...in case one goes bad and they disappear from the market (they've had pretty much as much "teething problems" with their supplies as the Pi did early on and I seriously doubt they're going to have factories cranking them out by the tens of thousands per month).

Since I've been using Raspbian on the Pis, I decided to go with Debian on the Cubie for consistency. Imagine my amusement when I found that the way you build a Cubie system (if you don't want to run the default Android) is with Berryboot and the version of Debian that it will install is....Raspbian. Feels a little odd to bring up the GUI desktop on a Cubie and be looking at that great big Raspberry in the middle.

And, by the way...if one *isn't* going to run Andriod, the 4GB of NAND flash on the Cubie is, essentially, a waste of board real estate.

While we're at the comparison.... The Cubie is a bigger board, but it comes in a nicer box.

The one I have set up so far is running from a reconditioned 60GB Corsair Nova SSD. So a full system with fast "disk" access and no moving parts. Should be a good server...but that extra $15 each makes it *much* less attractive than a Pi for the more numerous workstations.

On the whole, I think--since the Foundation is very unlikely to try to develop a "server" version of the Pi--the two boards complement each other and in projects like mine, the two will work well together. For any project I do (like a system for my 5-year-old grandson) that doesn't require a SATA port, I'll use Pis.

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:34 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Pi runs on 700mA. Cubie specs 2A. 5v 2A power supplies are *much* harder to locate than 5v 1A ones, especially now that there are enough Pis out there for people (like Adafruit) to make good power supplies specifically for the Pi.
Cubie runs even with 500mA from USB port.
W. H. Heydt wrote: In addition, the power connector for the Cubie is an odd ball barrel connector--or, at least, there doesn't seem to be any standard size for such. It is a sufficient problem that the Cubie ships with its own power cable. That's something the Pi doesn't need to do.
Cubie can be powered via standard miniUSB connector.
W. H. Heydt wrote:My current primary use requires 6 Pis as work stations
Are you kidding? Pi too slow for work station. Pi incompatible with 70% USB devices. Work station that reboots on USB connection :-) ??? Pi can't be as work station.

W. H. Heydt wrote: the 4GB of NAND flash on the Cubie is, essentially, a waste of board real estate.
Fast NAND flash is great feature. If you need more space then you can mount SD card as additional drive.
W. H. Heydt wrote: n the whole, I think--since the Foundation is very unlikely to try to develop a "server" version of the Pi--the two boards complement each other and in projects like mine, the two will work well together. For any project I do (like a system for my 5-year-old grandson) that doesn't require a SATA port, I'll use Pis.
You forgot about Pi USB. It is real big crap that can't be fixed in software. Just try to use usb audio or usb web camera on Pi :-)

I just got my Cubie and it is very fast and stable versus Pi. My web camera streaming application got HD 15fps with 0.7% cpu usage. On Pi the same web camera can't start with HD settings and it got 3 fps in VGA resolution with 10% cpu usage. USB audio on Cubie is FATNTASTIC...10 ms frames and NO drifting at all. On Pi the same usb audio device got 200ms audio drifting (about 3000 samples on 16Khz) and audio clicks even on 20ms frames!!!

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:10 pm

ddv2005 - your previous posts is full of deliberate inaccuracies made to make the Pi look bad. Please stop posting lies.

1) Most USB devices work fine now. There are some SOFTWARE fixes in testing that make the vast majority work fine. (Like 99%), including AudioUSB I believe.
2) Many people use the Pi fine, despite its 700Mhz processor. That's easily enough to make it usable in most situations. Its never going to compete with a desktop, but then NEITHER IS A CUBIE.
3) My Raspi camera gets 1080p30, H264 encoded at 30Mbits/s. Does you CUBIE do that? No? Only half that. The CUBIE must be crap then.
4) My Pi is completely stable, as are everyone else's.
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:38 pm

jamesh wrote: 1) Most USB devices work fine now. There are some SOFTWARE fixes in testing that make the vast majority work fine. (Like 99%), including AudioUSB I believe.
You believe?? I am developer and author of several first patches for YOUR PI and I spend many hours to understand how it work and why it can't be fixed in software. Pi required very strong software scheduling for USB split transactions but linux can't do that. It is why impossible to fix it in software on 100%. You can do it better but it still can't work on 100%.
99%??? Are you kidding? ALL web cameras can't work on full frame rate. USB audio work with clicks and drifting. USB keyboards has problems with repeating keys. FTDI serial does not work....and etc
jamesh wrote: 2) Many people use the Pi fine, despite its 700Mhz processor. That's easily enough to make it usable in most situations. Its never going to compete with a desktop, but then NEITHER IS A CUBIE.
CUBIE has at least twice CPU power of Pi
jamesh wrote: 3) My Raspi camera gets 1080p30, H264 encoded at 30Mbits/s. Does you CUBIE do that? No? Only half that. The CUBIE must be crap then.
It is only ONE YOUR camera. CUBIE work with MILLIONS web cameras but YOUR ONE camera that unavailable for all others it is very big feature :-)
jamesh wrote: 4) My Pi is completely stable, as are everyone else's.
Give me the name for OTHER device that reboots on USB connection? Another ONE except Pi :-)

P.S. I forgot about bad I2C bus on Pi because Broadcom chip does not support clock stretching and it CAN'T be used many I2C devices.

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:56 pm

ddv2005 wrote: Give me the name for OTHER device that reboots on USB connection? Another ONE except Pi :-)
I think we've already established that your experience here (which is what seems to have triggered the bellyaching) is VERY far from the norm! :roll:

Edit to add: about your other complaints - I think you need to try a more up-to-date image than the one you're using. Most everything you're talking about has been addressed.
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:57 pm

ddv2005;
I have had little trouble with USB devices on the RasPi. I keep them up to date and that seems to be the key. I use HDD's, wired/wireless keyboards and mice, USB hubs, Wireless ethernet adapters, USB storage adapters, and they all work just fine!

The cubieboard has some nice features, but it is not perfect, and neither is the PandaBoard, Neither is my Dell XPS i7-2600k. Or my iPhone or iPad or............

If th RasPi does not do what you want then buy the cubieboard!

Overall the Raspberry Pi does exactly what it was designed to do, and a whole lot more! You want it to do the "whole lot more" part, then it is up to you, not the foundation to get it to work!
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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:23 am

ddv2005 wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Pi runs on 700mA. Cubie specs 2A. 5v 2A power supplies are *much* harder to locate than 5v 1A ones, especially now that there are enough Pis out there for people (like Adafruit) to make good power supplies specifically for the Pi.
Cubie runs even with 500mA from USB port.
So will a Pi, but the specified power requirement for the Cubie is 2A. I have one running now with a 1.5A supply. The reason it works that way is that the "disk drive" attached to it is a SSD, not a HDD.
W. H. Heydt wrote: In addition, the power connector for the Cubie is an odd ball barrel connector--or, at least, there doesn't seem to be any standard size for such. It is a sufficient problem that the Cubie ships with its own power cable. That's something the Pi doesn't need to do.
Cubie can be powered via standard miniUSB connector.
The Pi can be powered through its micro-USB connector, one of its USB ports (assuming you don't have a very early board) or through GPIO pins. On neither board are those the "normal" power sources.
W. H. Heydt wrote:My current primary use requires 6 Pis as work stations
Are you kidding? Pi too slow for work station. Pi incompatible with 70% USB devices. Work station that reboots on USB connection :-) ??? Pi can't be as work station.
Tell that to the people I had entering input through Pis at a 1700+ person gaming convention 6 weeks ago. Or you can assert it to me...the person who used a Pi to input 90+% of the pre-reg memberships using a Pi (I don't depoly untested systems in critical applications).
W. H. Heydt wrote: the 4GB of NAND flash on the Cubie is, essentially, a waste of board real estate.
Fast NAND flash is great feature. If you need more space then you can mount SD card as additional drive.
SSD is even faster, especially when you want a lot of storage. I'm "only" using a 60GB SSD.
W. H. Heydt wrote: n the whole, I think--since the Foundation is very unlikely to try to develop a "server" version of the Pi--the two boards complement each other and in projects like mine, the two will work well together. For any project I do (like a system for my 5-year-old grandson) that doesn't require a SATA port, I'll use Pis.
You forgot about Pi USB. It is real big crap that can't be fixed in software. Just try to use usb audio or usb web camera on Pi :-)
Of all the few issues I had during the convention, none of them were related to USB problems on the Pi. And where I use audio (my "alarm clock"), I have never used USB. My speakers don't take that as input.

I don't know why you're having so many problems. After the initial teething period in the first half of last year (I have some Pis with polyfuses at the USB ports, and I've never modified them....because I've never needed to), USB has performed well. Well enough to deploy those 6 Pis to run conreg.

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Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:54 am

ddv2005 wrote:
jamesh wrote: 1) Most USB devices work fine now. There are some SOFTWARE fixes in testing that make the vast majority work fine. (Like 99%), including AudioUSB I believe.
You believe?? I am developer and author of several first patches for YOUR PI and I spend many hours to understand how it work and why it can't be fixed in software. Pi required very strong software scheduling for USB split transactions but linux can't do that. It is why impossible to fix it in software on 100%. You can do it better but it still can't work on 100%.
99%??? Are you kidding? ALL web cameras can't work on full frame rate. USB audio work with clicks and drifting. USB keyboards has problems with repeating keys. FTDI serial does not work....and etc
Well, there has been a big fix from M33P that has certainly improved webcams immensely, and Gordon has initial code fix which I believe fixes the fixed transactions problem using FIQ'S (These guys are the experts so I may have some terminology wrong). As I understand it FTDI adapters are now working much better as well. So it appears it CAN be fixed in software, and also appears that your understanding of the USB issues is incomplete.

Please upgrade to the latest software release, and try those patches. You should find that USB repeat problems go away, webcams work much better, and FTDI serial should work. If you are still encountering issues, please post bug reports to the appropriate threads (a forum search should find them).
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ddv2005
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:17 am

Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:16 pm

jamesh wrote: Well, there has been a big fix from M33P that has certainly improved webcams immensely, and Gordon has initial code fix which I believe fixes the fixed transactions problem using FIQ'S (These guys are the experts so I may have some terminology wrong). As I understand it FTDI adapters are now working much better as well. So it appears it CAN be fixed in software, and also appears that your understanding of the USB issues is incomplete.
I just upgrade firmware and did a tests:
1) Web camera is much better...I can got a full frame rate in HD resolution
2) Full/Low speed devices (USB Audio, FTDI serial, kerboards and etc) still broken.

Code: Select all

Opened device alsa(plughw:CARD=Set,DEV=0) for capture, sample rate=16000, ch=1, bits=16, period size=160 frames, latency=100 ms
 Please wait while test is in progress (~11 secs)..
Result:
  Recording result    : interval (min/max/avg/dev)=9/13/10/1, burst=2
  Playback result     : interval (min/max/avg/dev)=8/12/10/0, burst=2
 Clock drifts detected. Capture device is running 563 samples per second faster than the playback device
Pi miss ~32 packets per second (3.2%).

It is what I said. You can make better Hi speed USB devices (like Web cameras, Ethernet controllers) because it more tolerant of delays in transaction processing. But Full/Low speed devices uses split transactions. And some parts of split transactions should be completed in same USB frame (1ms) but it is impossible in software under not realtime OS (linux). It is why Pi miss packets from USB audio, keyboards, serial convertors and etc.
Most other USB controllers in SOCs implement split transactions in hardware and they don't need realtime software reaction as Pi. And nobody can fix split transactions on Pi in software.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 23709
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Cubieboard vs RaspberryPi B

Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:27 pm

ddv2005 wrote:
jamesh wrote: Well, there has been a big fix from M33P that has certainly improved webcams immensely, and Gordon has initial code fix which I believe fixes the fixed transactions problem using FIQ'S (These guys are the experts so I may have some terminology wrong). As I understand it FTDI adapters are now working much better as well. So it appears it CAN be fixed in software, and also appears that your understanding of the USB issues is incomplete.
I just upgrade firmware and did a tests:
1) Web camera is much better...I can got a full frame rate in HD resolution
2) Full/Low speed devices (USB Audio, FTDI serial, kerboards and etc) still broken.

Code: Select all

Opened device alsa(plughw:CARD=Set,DEV=0) for capture, sample rate=16000, ch=1, bits=16, period size=160 frames, latency=100 ms
 Please wait while test is in progress (~11 secs)..
Result:
  Recording result    : interval (min/max/avg/dev)=9/13/10/1, burst=2
  Playback result     : interval (min/max/avg/dev)=8/12/10/0, burst=2
 Clock drifts detected. Capture device is running 563 samples per second faster than the playback device
Pi miss ~32 packets per second (3.2%).

It is what I said. You can make better Hi speed USB devices (like Web cameras, Ethernet controllers) because it more tolerant of delays in transaction processing. But Full/Low speed devices uses split transactions. And some parts of split transactions should be completed in same USB frame (1ms) but it is impossible in software under not realtime OS (linux). It is why Pi miss packets from USB audio, keyboards, serial convertors and etc.
Most other USB controllers in SOCs implement split transactions in hardware and they don't need realtime software reaction as Pi. And nobody can fix split transactions on Pi in software.
Sounds like you don't have Gordon's FIQ fix which fixes the split transactions (this is currently still in testing). This is only available as a kernel patch. See the FIQ testing thread. This fix works because it does not reply on Linux to provide the fast processing, instead using ARM FIQ's (http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.js ... bjcid.html). So, a software fix. Just like the one you said wasn't possible.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

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