W. H. Heydt
Posts: 8659
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Pis find illegal images

Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:08 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44525358

An Austrian wrote a system to locate and delete illegal images, based around 3 Pis and some neural net hardware. Total cost: about $300.

Heater
Posts: 9490
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Pis find illegal images

Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:39 pm

From the article:
However it is illegal to possess images of child abuse, digitally or in print
In which case, how does one process such images for recognition and filtering purposes without breaking the law?

How does one train such a system without feeding it thousands of similarly illegal images, which one presumably "possesses"?

User avatar
thagrol
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Location: Darkest Somerset, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Pis find illegal images

Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:15 pm

Yeah saw that article. It's the neural net hardware that's doing the actual detection. And while the article is pushing the child abuse side, the way I understod it the algorythm is more general than that as it tries to detect any explict images. Given that, I find the claim of how many child abuse images actually found to be overly high as I doubt anyone has examined them (the point of his tool is so that you don't have to).

I also think that by setting the confidence threshold at 30% he's going to get a lot of false positives. Still his server so his rules and I guess that making the attempt is laudable.

Though how you get round the "you have to possess it to detect it" issues I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I am by no means pro child abuse but I am pro accurate reporting. It's an explict image detection system not a child abuse image detection one.
Note to self: don't feed the trolls
If you believe "L'enfer, c'est les autres" (Hell is other people) have you considered that it may be of your own making?

User avatar
Paeryn
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:10 am
Location: Sheffield, England

Re: Pis find illegal images

Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:27 pm

I get really annoyed when articles like this provide meaningless comparisons.
and uses less power than a lightbulb
What type of lightbulb are they comparing it to? A 100W incandescent, 10W LED, my bedside light which has a 1W bulb in it (I bet his system doesn't use less than that)?
They could just have told you how much power it actually uses in fewer words and it would actually tell you something. As it is the only way comparing power usage against a lightbulb is by stating the power of the lightbulb, at which point there is no need to even mention lightbulbs!
She who travels light — forgot something.

Heater
Posts: 9490
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Pis find illegal images

Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:38 pm

thagrol,
Given that, I find the claim of how many child abuse images actually found to be overly high as I doubt anyone has examined them ...
So it's even worse than I first thought. How do you check that the thing is working properly without looking at a huge sample of input images and checking how it rates them?

If you do that then you must have said images in your possession and are hence breaking the law.

Heater
Posts: 9490
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Pis find illegal images

Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:45 pm

Never mind the light bulb power consumption comparison. 1 Watt, 10 Watts, 100 Watts, whatever. That is all journalistic fluff.

Is there any existing research out there on kiddie porn detected per billion images per watt out there to compare to? I think not. (Correct me if I am wrong)

If you want to scale this up to youtube scale then what?

User avatar
thagrol
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Location: Darkest Somerset, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Pis find illegal images

Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:24 am

Heater wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:45 pm
Never mind the light bulb power consumption comparison. 1 Watt, 10 Watts, 100 Watts, whatever. That is all journalistic fluff.

Is there any existing research out there on kiddie porn detected per billion images per watt out there to compare to? I think not. (Correct me if I am wrong)

If you want to scale this up to youtube scale then what?
It's not a "kiddie porn" detector, it's a "not safe for work" image detector but I doubt any research on power consumption for that has been done either.
Note to self: don't feed the trolls
If you believe "L'enfer, c'est les autres" (Hell is other people) have you considered that it may be of your own making?

User avatar
joan
Posts: 13464
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:09 pm
Location: UK

Re: Pis find illegal images

Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:56 am

Off topic but the best spot not suitable for work device is a big public screen which shows random displays from workstations. I expect that would concentrate a few minds.

hippy
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Pis find illegal images

Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Heater wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:38 pm
How do you check that the thing is working properly without looking at a huge sample of input images and checking how it rates them?

If you do that then you must have said images in your possession and are hence breaking the law.
This is the fundamental problem with zero tolerance and purely technical offences where one is guilty simply by way of possession with Mens Rea and all other mitigations taken out of the equation. Made worse with minimum mandated sentences.

Someone can walk past you, slip a kiddie porn image in your pocket with one hand while tapping a nearby policeman on the shoulder with the other. Tada! And you're holidaying for a few years at Her Majesty's Pleasure, no ifs or buts.

That's not justice. It should offend anyone who has any belief in justice.

When it's a guaranteed conviction if it goes to court your fate falls to whether the police pursue charges or not. You are then at the mercy of whether the cops like you or don't, which may depend on your skin colour, religion, or anything else people discriminate on. It ultimately means police are administering justice not the courts.

We see that in America where two guys may have a pipe bomb. The black Muslim will possibly end up charged with having a Weapon of Mass Destruction while a white neo-Nazi may get charged with a far less serious offence of possession of explosives.

Heater
Posts: 9490
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Pis find illegal images

Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Sex, religion, race, politics... this thread is destined for a short life.

GuruMeditation
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 3:33 pm
Location: UK

Re: Pis find illegal images

Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:01 pm

Heater wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:39 pm
From the article:
However it is illegal to possess images of child abuse, digitally or in print
In which case, how does one process such images for recognition and filtering purposes without breaking the law?

How does one train such a system without feeding it thousands of similarly illegal images, which one presumably "possesses"?
He probably trained it on porn so that any picture that may likely be porn is flagged.

hippy
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Pis find illegal images

Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:23 pm

GuruMeditation wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:01 pm
He probably trained it on porn so that any picture that may likely be porn is flagged.
He doesn't seem to have done much himself except get it to actually work with a Pi. He is using Intel Movidius sticks to classify images and using an open source algorithm from Yahoo.

In the good old days; how much flesh tone was in an image used to be a good, rough and ready, measure of NSFW. I would hope it's a bit more advanced these days.

Return to “Off topic discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests