bensimmo wrote: ↑
Wed May 30, 2018 2:32 pm
Wow, telling beginners to use VM's.
Ones that can't even follow the basic setup of the main site are not going to get a VM working on a PC.
I take it you haven't done it recently. Downloading VirtualBox was trivially easy on my Mac. And downloading a Linux distribution to run on it (including the raspberrypi.org one) was equally easy. These are things that that can be done without a lot of local help to give a beginner a taste of what they're in for if the choose to buy the RPi hardware.
Pi's are for beginners, it's written all over the website, tutorials and allsorts.
Just saying it's so doesn't make it true. An RPi is still a full computer with an OS that is used on server-class machines. There's a lot that can go wrong, and so I would still recommend not throwing genuine beginners into the deep end of the pool like that.
Running in an Oracle Virtualbox VM on Windows is non-trivial.
Then that sounds like a Windows problem. In my experience, everything about a VM is more "throw-away" than an RPi.
Running on a micro-controller needs a specific purpose and an understanding of a single threaded process, they're not really a general purpose machine with a regular OS. The RPi is very much general purpose.
Are you seriously trying to argue that a full multi-threaded, multi-processing OS is easier to understand than a single-task microcontroller?
What you seem to forget is that for a vast majority of the human race that is a luxury they don't have. Friends, family and teachers know nothing. Actual user groups may not be available nearby. Or if they are it may not be so easy to get there.
Then that should be the beginner's first priority: setting up a support structure. Because it's rarely a road to success to just throw technology at people and say they have to make it on their own. I don't think that represents the RPF mission at all.
I did not mean they can't use language properly. Perhaps they are very smart and articulate. What I meant was that they will not know all the technical terms and jargon that we often use to discuss things. Terms and jargon that we have learned over many years.
That's what I meant, too. If they don't have someone sitting next to them with those "many years" of experience to translate their problem into a language that everyone here understands, it's not going to be a very good experience using these forums for help. You can already see a ton
of posts that demonstrate just that: people who can't ask good questions, helpful people asking for clarifications, and the original poster never following up. We don't need more of that.
Expecting a total neophyte to get Linux installed on a PC, or worse still a VM, is just crazy. Assuming they even have a PC.
And I am simply arguing that the RPi is so much like a PC that your advice remains essentially true. I would welcome a link to evidence that demonstrates a "total neophyte" would have success doing either alone, especially assuming they don't
have a PC to bootstrap the process!