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davidcoton
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:03 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:31 pm
Is me using a Pi Zero as a key fob, abusing a Pi ?
I don't know. What does the Pi Zero feel about it? Is it fulfilled in its role? :lol:
"Thanks for saving my life." See https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1327656#p1327656
“Raspberry Pi is a trademark of the Raspberry Pi Foundation”

Heater
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:12 pm

@ gkaiseril,
There are areas of what people call "great poverty" in Chicago..
Chicago? Have you had a look around San Jose or San Francisco recently? Some of the richest areas in the world. It's a bit shocking to see as an outsider like me.
...but it does not even compare to areas in Africa where people walk for up to three days...
Yes, we know. The problems there run deeper than the lack of Raspberry Pi.

@ bensimmo
Each to their own on the OS Heater.
Yep. As I said above "Horses for courses"

@ Imperf3kt
Much like the Pi will forever be associated with Kodi, a cheap media player solution, in some people's minds. Or as a games emulator.
Will it? Neither of those things come to my mind when I think about the Pi or what anyone I know does with a Pi.

I'm not sure what this conversation is about anymore. It's kind of pointless.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:31 pm

I think you mixed your quotes up - I didn't say that.
Stop plugging your fan directly into the GPIO 5v
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/transient-suppression.html

Heater
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:44 pm

Sorry, yes, it was hippy way back.

Anyway, I think we are done. The case for the Pi's existence and continued existence is clear.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:52 pm

It is?

I believe the question I asked (when boiled down to its most basic elements) was why do I need GPIO to learn to program. They're a great additional bonus, but they're not necessary to the Pi foundation's mission statement.

Overall, I guess the question is satisfactorily answered, sure, but I was interested in what prompted the creation of the hardware - not why it remains popular or what I can do with it in addition to the Pi foundation's mission statement.
Stop plugging your fan directly into the GPIO 5v
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/transient-suppression.html

Heater
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:58 pm

I think those points have been answered here.

But wait a minute.

When teaching programming we learn a few fundamental things: A program has input. It has output. It does some processing in between.

That can be really dry and boring. It was when I learned BASIC back in 1974 and the only input and output was a mechanical teletype.

What better way to spice that up than to provides some graphics? That inspired a generation of child programmers back in the days of the C64 an Sinclair Spectrum etc.

Or sound? As was a thing in the days of the Amiga and Atari.

What better to spice that up than have a GPIO hooked up to actually do something in the real world? Light a LED, move a servo, drive a robot and so on.

It's all an educational stimulus for a young mind.
Last edited by Heater on Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:59 pm

I'll probably have to re-read the thread then.
Thanks for replying.
Stop plugging your fan directly into the GPIO 5v
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/transient-suppression.html

Heater
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:08 pm

You may have missed my edit to my last post a minute ago.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:33 am

Thanks for bringing me up to date on Android guys, useful links.
Why is Things not running on Zero W?
Android does not do ARM6 :(
I am not advocating Android on Pi's, but Android devices talking to Pi's.

I only recently got a cheap Android Phone( running simless) just for the purpose of using it as a display for my Pi's.
There are many Smartphones out there and using them and tablets as interfaces to Pi's seems to me a thing to do.

Some uses include FPV display for a Zero Pi bot with Pi camera or to check the home solar panel inverter output on a serial connected Pi with webserver or Pi webcams running Ultibo.....
All in the interests of learning these things called protocols, HTTP, RTSP, UDP, RTP........

Learning, that's why the Pi exists.
For kids to learn scratch etc or old hardware guys learning how the world connects.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:52 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:52 pm
It is?

I believe the question I asked (when boiled down to its most basic elements) was why do I need GPIO to learn to program. They're a great additional bonus, but they're not necessary to the Pi foundation's mission statement.
That depends on what you want your program to do. If what it does includes interacting with the world, then the GPIO pins are going to be extremely useful and you will have to write programs that read from them and write to them.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:30 am

GPIO is like a computer's hands.
No point being just a brain if you want to touch the real world.
Makers make things, thinkers think about making thing.

This only did one thing, chess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Thou ... _computer)
Specific intelligence compared to general intelligence, but without GPIO they still are just thinking bots.

As us carbon based lifeforms evolve our replacements, they too need to be able to interact with the real world.
That first blinking LED program is the first real world interaction "let there be light".
If another PI had a single light sensor as well as a LED then communications can evolve.

A couple of more GPIO to turn motors on and off and you get these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IAluwgAFD0
https://www.kilobotics.com/
They do that behavior with 32k memory running at 8MHz.
What could 1GHz 512MB Pi Zero's do? Nothing without GPIO.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

hippy
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:03 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:33 am
Why is Things not running on Zero W?
Android does not do ARM6 :(
For the same reason that Windows 10 IoT, OpenJDK and other software doesn't I would imagine; that the developers have decided to target ARM devices which have capabilities less capable ARM devices don't have, that they have chosen to build their products with particular command line switches but not others, have written their code such that it builds or works for some targets but not all.

I think that's the wrong approach, believe software should support as much as possible, but it's their software and they are free to decide how it should be.

The only things one can do is pressure them to do things differently or, where open source, fork it or contribute to it to support what they won't. That's not always easy, especially if the software relies upon compilers or libraries which don't themselves support the target you have, which may well be why the developers themselves won't support those targets.

It's like Scratch 3; that now doesn't work in some browsers when Scratch 2 did, and those browsers cannot be upgraded to provide what Scratch 3 needs when the OS used is no longer supported by the browser supplier. Those people need to switch browsers or upgrade their OS, and to upgrade OS may require new hardware. It's the same with other software and apps.

These sorts of issues are probably only going to increase in future.

hippy
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:26 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:52 pm
I believe the question I asked (when boiled down to its most basic elements) was why do I need GPIO to learn to program. They're a great additional bonus, but they're not necessary to the Pi foundation's mission statement.
I didn't read your question like that but you are right; access to GPIO isn't an absolute necessity for learning programming, but it is useful for that subset of programming which relates to real world devices. You can't as easily do that without GPIO.

I think you are reading the mission statement as if a limitation on what they wanted to achieve rather than the starting point.

If my mission is to feed the world, I can send out grains and say job done, mission accomplished. But it doesn't mean I should be constrained to only doing that. Doing more isn't contrary to my mission.

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:30 am

The premise is that making an LED flash, something respond to you pressing a button you made yourself, a motor spin and so on is much more engaging to some people than "Hello world".

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bensimmo
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Re: Why does the 'Pi' exist?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:05 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:30 am
The premise is that making an LED flash, something respond to you pressing a button you made yourself, a motor spin and so on is much more engaging to some people than "Hello world".
Or having it run on the ISS on a SenseHAT.
RPF didn't need a SenseHAT
RPF didn't need a Pi or two on the ISS.
But they do and some kids seem to like it.
And I bet it's helped quite a few in basic programming and help some other in some more advanced real world data collection, control, imaging and analysis techniques.

Wish Dave the best in his new job too.

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