gsw
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:18 pm

Even though HDMI and AV output are awesome, what I would have available to use with the Raspberry Pi are a VGA monitor and a PS/2 keyboard and mouse. So to get this to work with the Pi, I need a:

HDMI to VGA adapter (~$40 USD):

http://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-Co.....roduct_top

and a USB to 2 PS/2 adapter ($2 USD):

http://www.amazon.com/USB-to-P.....038;sr=8-3

That"s a lot to pay, imo, for a computer that is so cheap. Other than hijacking the T.V. in the house, what other cheap options are available for an HDMI monitor? And for others that need to buy a cheap USB keyboard and mouse to work with one USB port, what would you recommend?

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Jongoleur
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:52 pm

As has been discussed (in other threads), the reason VGA isn't included is that the SoC doesn't do VGA.  It does do HDMI and it does do composite video and sound out, so that's why those options are there.

As for the converter, thats one way to do it. However, in my case the only VGA monitor I have doing nothing is an old 17" one which weighs a ton and is an eyesore when not in use.  Another way is to buy a cheap LCD TV with HDMI input and use that.  At the moment, there's 16" LCD TVs on offer for about 50 quid in New Year sales in the UK, so thats what I've gone with.  In addition, I will be able to use it to watch TV when I'm not using the Pi!

So 50 quid for a multi-purpose display, 22 quid for the Pi, 5 quid for a suitable SD card, 2 quid for a USB psu and micro/std USB cable, and 10 quid for a cheap wireless keyboard and mouse.  89 quid in all.  Not bad.

To be honest, I don't think you can get those capabilities for that price NEW anywhere else.
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

gsw
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:42 am

The Pi would be really neat to have, and I would like to buy one if I can find a very cheap solution for a screen. Without either a very low cost HDMI monitor/TV or the adapter to VGA that costs more than the Pi itself, it just isn't workable for me. I can rationalize spending 22 quid ($34 USD + shipping, so I might wait until it was distributed in the U.S. to help with the shipping cost), but far beyond that and I can't justify the expense.

So, a question for Liz or someone else on the project team: Is there a monitor/T.V. that you would suggest as a low cost option, and is there a VGA to HDMI adapter that you would suggest? I understand that one of the primary goals of the project is not to be a price watcher for cheap HDMI monitors/adapters. However if one of the goals of the project is to market this to students or schools, making each student and school find their own cheap monitors and adapters might scare them away from using the Pi unless the total cost still makes it a reasonable choice compared to other solutions.

Mainly, I just want to figure out a way to keep the total cost as low as possible, because that seems to be the intent of the project, and because I'm cheap.

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Vindicator
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:10 am

Realize The Raspi also has composite video and will hook to a great number of TV's that don't have HDMI, Every TV in my house right now has composite video capability.

While I see this continuous (Request) need for VGA I also see people in my community that do not have any computers but have TV's that have HDMI or Composite available, on every TV I have seen lately and most of them have a game console attached to them.

The only way they are going to get scared away is by overlooking the composite completely as so many are doing, but I can remember the days when that was all there was.

So the lowest cost is going to be to utilize the composite on a TV that most will probably already own.

I have stated this before that millions of game consoles in the USA alone are still playing on composite video on the oldest TV in the house in the kids room.

I recently repaired a Xbox 360 down the street for a family that is using one of our old TVs and they play the 360 on its composite and would use a Raspi the same if I get them one. Which I may as the kids come down here to finish school reports as they have no computer or internet.

Kids broke the tray door and I replaced it for them.
If you are more worried about ,spelling, punctuation or grammar you have probably already missed the point so please just move on.

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Jongoleur
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:02 am

Vindicator said:


While I see this continuous (Request) need for VGA I also see people in my community that do not have any computers but have TV's that have HDMI or Composite available, on every TV I have seen lately and most of them have a game console attached to them.



The problem is that most people probably don't know what the little yellow socket on the side/back of the TV is for, or the red and white ones either.  But the Pi is a computer, so it must have VGA, and if not it must be broken. 

I can understand that schools may have spare VGA monitors gathering dust and wish that there was a cheap way to connect a Raspberry Pi to them, but the main aim is to get cheap programmable computers into the home for kids to experiment with and its more likely that there'll be a less used TV available for the Pi to connect to.

Its just a question of education all round....
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

darkstar
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:36 am

I agree with Jongoleur: lack of VGA is a pain.

Whist I have TVs and VGA monitors all over the place, I have yet to buy a HDMI monitor. The big TV is in the sitting room and VGA monitor in my workroom. The rest of the machines I can access with a KVM, but not this little beast.

Yes, I can use the RCA hole, but the color is really horrid in comparison to RGB. For testing and hacking boots etc we don't care, but using it as a games machine, yuck!

And schools can lay their hands on plenty of VGA monitors, even LCDs. But to use TVs they would be using assorted second hand CRT TVs. Posh schools of course would be able to go out and buy HDMI monitors.

But technology moves on so in a couple of years I suppose that HDMI monitors will become more available.

JaffaBoy
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:44 am

Just to mention to UK'ers, that ASDA are selling a 15.6" TV with a HDMI input for £50 (Venturer 15.6ins HD Ready Backlit LED TV)

btw - I have no connection to them, just amazed that LED TV's are getting so cheap!

AncientRelic
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:44 am

I think crying about the lack of VGA is about the "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" syndrome. I agree most people are completely forgetting about the composite out, and also people are forgetting that DVI-HDMI converters go for a buck or two here in the states, can't imagine it being much more anywhere else in the world. I've even got an old dell LCD from 2003ish that has a DVI port on it that someone gave me (it's a 15 inch).

I think if you scrounge around a bit, you should be able to find a cheap LCD screen that will work for you at a nice resolution without the blurriness of Composite Out

kme
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:48 am

Anybody buying screens with analog input this millennium has focused on price only, not quality. VGA is a poor standard from around 1985 and comparable to 78 rpm records.

R-Pi is a product for the future and shouldn't be held back by tech standards from before Windows 3 and before Linux was even invented. Get over it folks, you missed the train by at least a decade.

jaygee
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:11 am

Is's also worth looking round the back of any monitors that you have available. I have a cheapish 19inch LCD bought about 4 years ago for £100 and only ever used with VGA that turns out to also have  DVI input. I have bought a HDMI-DVI cable for £1.99 from Amazon which I hope will enable it to be used with RasPi.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/pro.....B000GDI6FC

na1pir
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:32 am

VGA is nice to have because it's everywhere its inconvenient to throw away working electronic gadget… I am not whining about it, I acted and fixed my problem.

My 2 year old lcd monitor doesn't have dvi. So instead I used panel from 5 years old lcd and bought new controller board with dvi so now I am prepared for R-Pi… all for only about 50€ and hdmi to dvi converter is around 5€…

Cheapest DVI/HDMI TV or monitor would cost me around 95€ + shipment…

Why buy new electronic junk? Small modification is cheaper and cleaner for environment.

tonycollinet
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:48 pm

I've got 2 21 inch tv's that'll take a composite video input (probably via scart) - going free for anyone who wants to collect (Alsager, south Cheshire - UK)

Can't *give* the buggers away.

junior
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:57 pm

I guess I'm a rare case, but TV is a problem for me because I (a) don't have one and (b) live in the UK, where you have to pay a £145 pa "licence fee" to own one. I can get all the TV I want using online services (e.g. BBC iplayer), which don't incur the licence fee as long as you're not watching "live".

Having to buy an HDMI to VGA converter + cables suddenly bumps the RP's price up close to the level of a Sheevaplug, which has a much better processor and much more RAM. £100 always seemed like a lot for the Sheevaplug, and the RP seemed like just the ticket at first sight.

But if the intention was to use the RP for a CLI-based Linux, would there be any way to redirect the console to a serial port?

mightygoose
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:52 pm

junior said:


I guess I'm a rare case, but TV is a problem for me because I (a) don't have one and (b) live in the UK, where you have to pay a £145 pa "licence fee" to own one. I can get all the TV I want using online services (e.g. BBC iplayer), which don't incur the licence fee as long as you're not watching "live".

Having to buy an HDMI to VGA converter + cables suddenly bumps the RP's price up close to the level of a Sheevaplug, which has a much better processor and much more RAM. £100 always seemed like a lot for the Sheevaplug, and the RP seemed like just the ticket at first sight.

But if the intention was to use the RP for a CLI-based Linux, would there be any way to redirect the console to a serial port?



Junior, provided its not connected to any form of aerial, you do not have to have a TV license just for having a Television set. Just get one without built in Freeview blah blah. So long as you used it just for Raspi. you would be fine.

just so you know.

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RobertM
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:55 pm

18.5" LED monitors with DVI-D inputs can be picked up for around £55+VAT I believe, e.g. AOC E950Swda.

junior
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:20 pm

mightygoose said:

Junior, provided its not connected to any form of aerial, you do not have to have a TV license just for having a Television set. Just get one without built in Freeview blah blah. So long as you used it just for Raspi. you would be fine.

Thanks mightygoose, I checked on http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk and you're right. So maybe I'll scrounge an analogue-only set that someone's throwing out.

Still, it would save space to be able to hook it to my PC's serial or USB, or use my existing VGA through my KVM...

Themroc
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:22 am

gsw said:

HDMI to VGA adapter (~$40 USD):
http://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-Co.....roduct_top


The cheapest one i found so far:

http://www.google.com/products.....#scoring=p

Samsung has a similar (or the same?) thing called AA-AH1NAMB. Unfortunately, they require either a soldering iron or an additional standard HDMI to micro HDMI adapter - should cost around $2, but i haven't seen one yet.

arm2
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:07 pm

Themroc said:


gsw said:


HDMI to VGA adapter (~$40 USD):
http://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-Co.....roduct_top


The cheapest one i found so far:

http://www.google.com/products.....#scoring=p

Samsung has a similar (or the same?) thing called AA-AH1NAMB. Unfortunately, they require either a soldering iron or an additional standard HDMI to micro HDMI adapter - should cost around $2, but i haven't seen one yet.



I'm not certain that the Asus unit is Digital to analogue. Some equipment can output VGA on an HDMI connector, I've seen HDMI to VGA cables with no electronics in them. Asus only talk of it for use with one particular netbook, the TF201. The 'box' at the end with the VGA socket 'could' have DACs in it!

Themroc
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:18 pm

arm2 said:


I'm not certain that the Asus unit is Digital to analogue. Some equipment can output VGA on an HDMI connector, I've seen HDMI to VGA cables with no electronics in them. Asus only talk of it for use with one particular netbook, the TF201. The 'box' at the end with the VGA socket 'could' have DACs in it!


Yeah, i also had some doubts, but meanwhile i found this http://forum.xda-developers.co.....?t=1088243 thread wich convinced me it should work.

Short version:

These "adapters" are definitely not just simple cables:


Originally Posted by d1001541  

Has anyone tried a mini hdmi to vga cable? If so please can they confirm.

yes.. no luck!



They seem to be interchangeable with this http://www.google.com/products.....CDkQ8wIwAA thingie:



I use the HP HDMI->VGA adapter and it works just fine. I need to use an adapter to convert to MiniHDMI.



The HP "adapter" has stuff in it that needs real power:


"Does not work with all Tablets" paraphrase: "I tested this product with Smartphones and Tablets that has a Micro HDMI port that I wish to convert to use with a VGA Projector. Only the RIM Playbook would work. All three of the Smartphones and two other tablets did not work.
Here is a modification I found on the web to booast power output to make it work, but I did not want to go this route:
Hacked into device. Supplied external power for the converter circuit. Problem solved.



And finally, there's an even better solution out there: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-M.....231851acd2

arm2
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:02 pm

Themroc said:….



And finally, there"s an even better solution out there: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-M.....231851acd2


Certainly cheaper! I see it is powered by HDMI I wonder how much extra that drains from the RPi?   Is there a maximum power HDMI can output like 0.5Amp for USB?

Themroc
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:33 pm

arm2 said:


Certainly cheaper! I see it is powered by HDMI I wonder how much extra that drains from the RPi?   Is there a maximum power HDMI can output like 0.5Amp for USB?


According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi it's 50mA max., but that is certainly not enforced on RasPI. This HP box mentioned in the xda-thread needs more than some tablets/smartphones are willing to deliver, but since i were not able to find a single Datasheet for any HDMI->VGA chip i just don't know. The PTN3392 (a DisplayPort->VGA chip) however eats 180mA @ 162 MHz pixel clock...

hajj_3
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:56 pm

assuming your vga cable isn't stuck into the monitor you could replace the vga to vga cable with this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1M-M.....4cf71f719c



Maybe someone from the R-pi team could buy one of these cables and check as i'm sure a very large number of users would like to know if this cable works for users with vga monitors, whether it draws power etc.

davidgoodenough
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:38 pm

That would only work on an HDMI feed that had the analog signals (I suspect from the price).  The BeagleBoard had the same problem, you need an active converter not a passive one.

normanp
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:36 pm

Whilst I do appreciate the constraints on the design etc & that VGA is old technology I'm really unsure how I'll be able to use the RPi in the classroom for the next year or two. In my college we only have vga monitors available for students - and there is no prospect of getting digital TVs or monitors... though we can afford to buy the RPi & have plenty of USB mice & keyboards. Very frustrating! I suppose we could set assignments for students to do at home with their own TVs - but supervision would be difficult (to know if it's their own work!).

I support the UK Govs push away from IT and towards Computing - and the RPi is an answer - but how can we use them....? Not sure!

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Chromatix
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Re: Cheapest HDMI monitor or HDMI to VGA monitor adapter, keyboard, mouse setup?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:01 pm

It seems that HDMI to VGA converters that actually do what they claim are not very cheap - about £45 upwards.  At that price just as good to buy a basic DVI monitor (eg. about £55 for one at Aria) and enjoy the savings on power over time.

However this might be enough to get you started: http://www.netpcdirect.co.uk/v.....box.html  It might only give you a monochrome picture, but it *is* cheap.
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