Heater
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:28 am

AntonAV,
Thanks for clearing up that the RPI Foundation is a commercial enterprise:
I did not say that.

That makes it sound like the Raspi Foundation is only in it for the money.

The Raspi Foundation is a registered charity. In order to do whatever it is they want to do they need money. I see no reason why they should not manage that in the same way as any for profit company.

Or were you joking there?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:50 am

Heater wrote:AntonAV, Or were you joking there?
No, I was not joking: the ¨About¨ menu above shows ¨The Raspberry Pi Foundation works to put the power of digital making into the hands of people all over the world¨: nothing about it being a registered charity. Next you labeling this site as a suppliers forum.
¨
I see no reason why they should not manage that in the same way as any for profit company.
¨
Ok, than reign in some grumpy nerds and become 100% client friendly. (including the search function here)
Look, after spending some time on Ubuntu and Raspbian terminals coming from GUI MS Windows I can understand why people become unfriendly chasing progress for xx(xx..) hours fiddling, but please don´t pass that on to those next in line. Rather give them the code example to fix it, IF you want this movement to expand. Even better, burn it in the next distro.

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:18 am

AntonAV wrote:
Heater wrote:AntonAV, Or were you joking there?
No, I was not joking: the ¨About¨ menu above shows ¨The Raspberry Pi Foundation works to put the power of digital making into the hands of people all over the world¨: nothing about it being a registered charity. Next you labeling this site as a suppliers forum.
What do the big letters at the bottom of the page say?


As for this forum, it's sort of functional. If reading and just about able to post is what is needed.
Search is poor, ease of use to find what you want (like your own posts) is poor.
It's cheap though.

Is it any better on or with the Tinker Board? I don't hink ASUS is a charity run product, they may well do charity things, I do not know.
Do they have any support?
Community?
Charity to educate?
Do they have plans to or plans on what they want the Tinker to be?
Do they have a Little Tinker to compete with the Pi Zero I'm the pipeline? ;-)
Does it run WinIoT? RISC OS or better Windows 10, Android?

As far as I know Raspberry Foundation and it's subsidiary the Trading wing is not a supplier. You don't buy directly from them, they are a designing IP company and have others do it for them. There are a few of the smaller volume/cheaper products that they have made up, but suppliers buy them from them as far as I know.


(Jeez the file size attachment is small here :-()
Anyway imagine a screen shot of the bottom of the main front page or the about page of any of the Raspberry Pi webpages .. apart from this forum

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rpdom
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:44 am

bensimmo wrote:(Jeez the file size attachment is small here :-()
64KB, IIRC
Anyway imagine a screen shot of the bottom of the main front page or the about page of any of the Raspberry Pi webpages .. apart from this forum
Like this?
Charity.png
Charity.png (14.14 KiB) Viewed 7202 times

Heater
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:01 am

AntonAV,

The page reached by hitting the "About" menu here clearly states the Raspberry Pi Foundation's charitable status.

I was perhaps a bit lose with my use of "supplier". As originators of the concept and designers of the end result the Pi Foundation clearly is a supplier of something even if they are not the manufacturer or distributor.

The search function on this forum is all but useless. However that is true of most forums and web sites I have known. Ever try finding useful help on a Microsoft web site? It's of little consequence anyway when a Google site search works very well "site:raspberrypi.org bla bla"

This grumpy nerd finds everything here "client friendly". Much more so than many other tech web sites.
Look,...
Normally when I see a paragraph begin with "Look..." I know there is there is nothing but a strongly stated, ill informed, opinion to follow. You do not disappoint.

Please don't tell me that any MS operating system is easier to use. All around the world there are millions of grumpy nerds, like myself, who have spent thousands of hours sorting problems for their Windows using family and friends. If MS paid for that support network they would be bankrupt!

Anyway, I'm looking but I don't see anything. Clearly you have some frustrations using the Pi and/or Raspbian and/or some software there on. If you would ask a specific question, state the exact problem, then perhaps we could advise.
IF you want this movement to expand...
The Pi "movement", if you want to call it that, already expanded to ten thousand times bigger than anyone expected at launch. Linux an all the other Free and Open Source software is also doing very well. It runs much of the world now. Even Microsoft has started to support it.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:56 pm

Clearly some clarification required here, since there seems to be a lack of comprehension. Note, all this information is already publicly available, so I repeating myself, but hey ho.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a charity. The RPF do all the educational stuff (ie Picademies, course materiel etc).

Codeclub and the RPF merged a while back.

Raspberry Pi (Trading) is a fully owned subsidiary of the RPF. Trading do all the design work and software development. They contribute to OSS projects as well as developing the Pi firmware.

The RPF only manufactures the Zero, the Pi1/2/3A/B are manufactured under licence by third parties.

All profits are ploughed back in to the RPF.

Also worth noting - charities are also businesses - they need to make money to survive. The profits from the millions of devices sold to non-educational users help pay for the educational aims of the charity.
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ktb
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:57 am

stderr wrote:
AntonAV wrote:Look, after spending some time on Ubuntu and Raspbian terminals coming from GUI MS Windows I can understand why people become unfriendly chasing progress for xx(xx..) hours fiddling, but please don´t pass that on to those next in line.
No one has been unfriendly to you that I've seen. I'm sceptical that windows is easier to fix than linux or whatever. It tends to hid things in a maze of GUI gunk that is indecipherable until you memorised where this or that is. Not to mention, windows tends to move around how you do something from release to release. This sin isn't limited to windows, of course, but it is a grand sin of windows.
Perhaps not unfriendly treatment, but the arrogant curmudgeon factor around here shouldn't be completely dismissed.

I mostly agree about Windows, but I think maybe Windows Server 2003 or 2008 was the last version I worked with. Maybe it has improved. I'm so happy I don't have to admin. Windows servers any longer.

Heater
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:37 am

I have no idea where Pixel is stuck. I almost never use a GUI to configure anything on a Linux system. Most of them don't even have a GUI, being small embedded systems or "cloud" servers.

Having lived with a MS Surface Pro 4 and it's Windows 10 for over half a year now, first time I used Windows seriously since Win98, I'm still inclined to say that configuration via command line and config files is a lot easier, flexible, more reliable and confidence inspiring than dicking around with thousands of buttons, dialogs etc in a GUI.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:48 pm

ktb wrote: I mostly agree about Windows, but I think maybe Windows Server 2003 or 2008 was the last version I worked with. Maybe it has improved. I'm so happy I don't have to admin. Windows servers any longer.
Sadly it really hasn't :( I get excited when I am using something running Server 2003 because it responds almost instantaneously unlike the more recent releases.

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Had a play and it is able to max out that gigabit interface over samba:
Image

that was from a ram disk on the tinkerboard - more realistic is this from the SD:
Image

I setup a forum for discussing the tinkerboard at:

http://tinkerboarding.co.uk/forum
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:08 am

Review at http://hackaday.com/2017/02/15/review-t ... ker-board/ Quite favorable for the hardware, hard on missing support.

There is interesting news in that review and explains a lot about the not too good support at the moment.

Update:
A member of the Asus Marketing team read this review and contacted Hackaday with some updated information. According to our discussion, the Tinker Board has not officially launched. This explains a lot about the current state of the Tinker Board. As Jenny mentions in her review below, the software support for the board is not yet in place, and as comments on this review have mentioned, you can’t source it in the US and most other markets. An internal slide deck was leaked on SlideShare shortly after CES (which explains our earlier coverage), followed by one retailer in the UK market selling the boards ahead of Asus’ launch date (which is how we got our hands on this unit).

Asus tells us that they are aiming for an end of February launch date, perhaps as soon as the 26th for the United States, UK, and Taiwan. Other markets might have some variation, all of this contingent on agreements with and getting stock to regional distributors. With the launch will come the final OS Distribution (TinkerOS based on Debian), schematics, mechanical block diagrams, etc. Asus tells Hackaday it is a top priority to deliver hardware video acceleration for the Rockchip on the Tinker Board. The Board Support Package which hooks the feature into Linux is not yet finished but will come either on launch day or soon after. This is the end of the update, please enjoy Jenny List’s full review below.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:27 pm

and a new flashy page appears on Asus website - so maybe PR above was right with "Not actually launched yet", despite already being for sale in currys etc

https://www.asus.com/uk/Single-board-Co ... KER-BOARD/
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:02 am

Thanks a LOT, mikerr for your information and the forum you set up. I always had the impression, that the first batch of boards escaped before the official launch. To see a TinkerBoard site at Asus is a good sign that they are commited to the project.
I have my TinkerBoard since a few days now. The first thing I did was an 'apt-get update' which temporarily disabled Ethernet. My TV can handle 4k content (I never tried) so I am curious about this functionality once the board is ready to play such content.

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:44 am

Please keep Tinker board tech help to anywhere but here...I'll delete tech request/information posts as not Pi relevant.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:54 am

jamesh wrote:Please keep Tinker board tech help to anywhere but here...I'll delete tech request/information posts as not Pi relevant.
I agree

HOWEVER - as its in the "offtopic" forum, I will put in updates about items that are relevant to Pi fans if thats ok?

I have a whole bunch of Pi, from the 256MB 1st gen B, through A, 512 B, zero , 2 , 3 etc.

I like to use the best tool for the job. I expect, if ASUS deliver, that the tinkerboard will be a good device for a couple of use cases vs a pi3

1) low power file server - especially with faster Ethernet
2) hackable media server, 4K plus IO to talk to things like home automation etc

Neither of these are impossible on a pi, and with a debian base, much can be cross-used.

I would hope some hacking on the TinkerBoard might even help with different pi projects.

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:59 am

paulhothersall wrote:
jamesh wrote:Please keep Tinker board tech help to anywhere but here...I'll delete tech request/information posts as not Pi relevant.
I agree

HOWEVER - as its in the "offtopic" forum, I will put in updates about items that are relevant to Pi fans if thats ok?

I have a whole bunch of Pi, from the 256MB 1st gen B, through A, 512 B, zero , 2 , 3 etc.

I like to use the best tool for the job. I expect, if ASUS deliver, that the tinkerboard will be a good device for a couple of use cases vs a pi3

1) low power file server - especially with faster Ethernet
2) hackable media server, 4K plus IO to talk to things like home automation etc

Neither of these are impossible on a pi, and with a debian base, much can be cross-used.

I would hope some hacking on the TinkerBoard might even help with different pi projects.
Fine, as long as there is Pi content.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:21 pm

alnaseh wrote:i mailed their support and they confirmed that the raspi camera is compatible with their board. hopefully this is the case
I doubt the v2 camera would work - that has a crypto chip on it and they will not have the right key.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:07 am

I was asked about the TinkerBoard by a colleague and was a little surprised to see it only had an Aarm32 CPU, until on further investigation it uses basically the same CPU / GPU as the ASUS Chromebook C201 & Chromebook Flip C100PA & Chromebit CS10


https://www.asus.com/uk/Notebooks/ASUS_Chromebook_C201/

https://www.asus.com/uk/Chrome-Devices/ ... /overview/


I am erring on the side of caution and feel that for my colleague a ChromeBit, which runs ChromeOS, would be more suited for his purpose considering the used price:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Asus-Chromebi ... 2263327594
Retired disgracefully.....
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:17 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:I was asked about the TinkerBoard by a colleague and was a little surprised to see it only had an Aarm32 CPU, until on further investigation it uses basically the same CPU / GPU as the ASUS Chromebook C201 & Chromebook Flip C100PA & Chromebit CS10
It depends on what you need to do with it. I have the Asus Flip C100PA and installed Debian Linux using Crouton. For Linux ARM development it's a great machine and runs 3-5x faster than the RPi3. If you need exposed I/O pins, then the Tinkerboard makes more sense. Either way, the RK3288 CPU is quite powerful and being 32-bit doesn't present any real hindrance to its speed. For something more powerful, I also have an Acer R13 Chromebook with the MT8173 CPU (2x 64-bit Cortex-A72 + 2x 64-bit Cortex-A53) running aarch64 Linux (thanks to Crouton). It runs code 5-10x faster than the RPi3. Again, no exposed I/O pins, but it's great for ARM Linux software development. Pick the right tool for the right job :)
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:22 pm

alnaseh wrote:
Linux v4l2 CSI driver aren't completely done, I recommend not to use.....

If you want to try it, then you can use IMX219 (same with rpi) in Tinker board.
Interesting that they've used the soc_camera framework - that's just been removed from mainline, so expect a major rework before 4.11.
alnaseh wrote:another point i found in this board (which would be good to have in raspi) is a dedicated gstreamer plugin for the camera. i believe this will help to encode the raw stream to any format instead of h264.
I'm not sure that I follow you there.
The Pi will do either H264 or MJPEG. Tinkerboard will do H.264, MVC, or VP8. Both only do up to 1080P30. The choice of software is almost irrelevant, and in some ways sticking with V4L2 would be easier and probably more efficient (depends on the use of dmabufs).

MVC is curious seeing as it is Multiview Video Coding. A little redundant seeing as there is only one camera input.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:06 am

I am not really interested in video and youtubes, but a few recent things have changed my mind.

Been setting up an AR Sandbox, Web page has videos for how to do the calibration.
I read the Readme it says go see video xxx. :lol:

As the effects of mum's aluminum saucepan cooking are starting to set in, I find googling for answers is faster than trying to remember something I had done and forgotten but posted on a forum a year ago :oops:

I guess, I and perhaps others need to face up to reality.
Googling for answers and watching YT are how people, especially those younger than us oldies, are learning today.
Is a good memory a thing of the past? Might still be hope for me :lol:

A good browser with fast video is the future for everyone?
The effort RPF put into Epiphany was considerable.
Now we have Chromium pushing the Pi3 hard.

What will future browsers do?
Does RPF have to make the hardware that can run these next gen Internet tools?

2GB is nice but Aarch64 is better, will browser writers make use of the extra grunt multicore/gpus have?
Can the extra processing offset smaller memory?
Better coders use less memory, we get spoiled with with 4-8GB on Desktops.
Does RPF have to make their own browser, been there tried that.
Anyone tried Chromium on a B+ recently?

The Tinker board was interesting until I found out it is only 32bit, no future in that.
Life span of Tinker? One Year? I will wait for Tinker 2 Aarch64 version.
Next gen browsers even those on Android will need more grunt.

It is flattering that a major motherboard maker has followed the footprint of the P.
Too bad it is not state of the art and just another me too.

But that's just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:33 am

State of the art means the boards cost £200 odd, that why it is not state of the art. That is a different market.
You can buy them, Huawei have just released one with a processor more powerful than my mid range phone (£230 Huawei P9 lite). It had the processor from the high end P9. Octacore 4x4 Jobby.

But Asus would also know the market and where they are targeting it, probably not the same market and reasons as RaspberryPi and it's also not ASUSs only market. But they do know their processors and boards ;-)

That Pi0W is pretty state of the art for it's size and cost.
If it wasn't then there would be loads of the same things for years in the market.

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:23 am

my street local 3C store in stock now.
but his DM is 3288 not 3288-C, does it matter?

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:13 am

Heater wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:52 pm
I cannot imagine Rasbnian working on this thing out of the box. The Pi relies on the GPU and the secret binary blob to get it booted. I'm pretty sure this machine does not have the same GPU or even use the same boot method.
If you're using the Tinkerboard to run Android with a touchscreen, it seems like a better option would be to get an Asus Flip C100 chromebook. Same CPU, more RAM (2/4GB), faster eMMC storage, 10.1" touchscreen, runs Chrome + Android apps and has great battery life (10+ hours).
The fastest code is none at all :)

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Re: Asus Tinker board

Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:20 am

A Chromebook would just be to small. The benefit of the Tinker Board for me, is the ability to connect it to a desktop touch screen monitor. I'm currently using a 23 touch monitor. http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/dell-p2314t/pd This allows for the Tinker Board (Android ), a Windows 10 PC and the Raspberry Pi (Raspbian) to all be connected to the same monitor and all take advantage of touch. The performance of the Tinker Board for Android gaming is quite good as well with no need to worry about battery life.

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