pi zero w with dsi connector - thoughts/opinions/reasons

[tarkshya]

Given the form factor of pi zero w, did anyone ever think of adding a dsi connector (instead of the hdmi) ? Now i understand there is model a+ (and probably the upcoming pi 3 A model), but its the form factor of zero that is more attractive. Wouldn't it have helped/increased the sales of the pi touchscreen too ? (had they kept a DSI version of pi zero w) ? probably reducing the costs may be ?

(something similar to orange pi 2g-iot, that has LVDS [instead of hdmi] and CSI connectors, similar in form-factor to pi zero w)

Any thoughts/reasons/insights/opinions ?


Thanks
Tarkshya

[fruitoftheloom]

Given the form factor of pi zero w, did anyone ever think of adding a dsi connector (instead of the hdmi) ? Now i understand there is model a+ (and probably the upcoming pi 3 A model), but its the form factor of zero that is more attractive. Wouldn't it have helped/increased the sales of the pi touchscreen too ? (had they kept a DSI version of pi zero w) ? probably reducing the costs may be ?

(something similar to orange pi 2g-iot, that has LVDS [instead of hdmi] and CSI connectors, similar in form-factor to pi zero w)

Any thoughts/reasons/insights/opinions ?


Thanks
Tarkshya

Please buy a SBC which has the features you require it will save you waiting forever and a day

[Gavinmc42]

The Pi 7" LCD has PCB that takes the DSI and converts to LVDS.
The price of LCD and bits is much higher than the Zero.

There does not seem to be many DSI displays around, which is strange considering how many micros have DSI ports.
HDMI TV's are much more common. DVI monitors can be used with cheap adapters.
The HDMI connector is also quite a bit stronger and easier to use than the flex connectors.

That said, a lower cost Pi display would be useful for Pi based Tablet/Smartphone/Laptop/Netbooks.
A portable Pi with display is where the new PC market is. Most people connect to the world via Tablets and Smart phones.
A choice from Android or Apple Os's would be nice.

RPF have a roadmap for future product out at least 5 years.
There are many reasons for what they do, a lot has to do with dealing with the features and limitations of the Broadcom chips.
The DSI connector may have made sense at the time but that was over 5 years ago.

Is the DSI option still needed? How many DSI displays can it connect too?

The display market is also very fickle, manufacturers design displays but they never get to mass production because it never makes it onto a Bill of Materials.
I have seen a few good colour sunlight viewable demo/prototype displays over the years but because they cost just a little bit more they never get mass produced.
The small LCDs we can put on the 40 pin header are mostly SPI or sometime DPI.
There are many of these SPI displays up to about 3.5", DPI are mostly 4-7" - not much above that size.

Is there a good 5,7,9" DSI display for the Pi's that does not require a converter pcb?

I can test Zero's by plugging a HDMI display in, any old monitor with DVI or even a TV.
Why do I need DSI?
Need tiny display, I use i2c OLEDs, need cheap display, I use 16x2 character LCDs.
Small color, I use- 1.8-3.5" TFTs. Adafruit have some nice 5-7" DPI I have yet to use.
In only two projects have I used the Pi 7" touch DSI to LVDS LCD.

Zero with DSI? Show me a $5-10 DSI display, then it would make sense.

Hopefully one day the Zero Pi's will have maybe two USB-C connectors that do everything.

[DougieLawson]

. Wouldn't it have helped/increased the sales of the pi touchscreen too ? (had they kept a DSI version of pi zero w) ? probably reducing the costs may be ?

Using the touch screen infers using a GUI. Using a GUI with the touch screen needs GPU memory = 128MB. Stealing 128MB from a 512MB machine means you won't have enough RAM left for running a browser or any other RAM hungry bloatware.

So your conjecture is disproven.

There's no sensible reason to run a touch screen with anything less than a 1GB RPi2B, RPi2B2 or RPi3B.

[bensimmo]

. Wouldn't it have helped/increased the sales of the pi touchscreen too ? (had they kept a DSI version of pi zero w) ? probably reducing the costs may be ?

Using the touch screen infers using a GUI. Using a GUI with the touch screen needs GPU memory = 128MB. Stealing 128MB from a 512MB machine means you won't have enough RAM left for running a browser or any other RAM hungry bloatware.

So your conjecture is disproven.

There's no sensible reason to run a touch screen with anything less than a 1GB RPi2B, RPi2B2 or RPi3B.

Yet it is there on A/B with 256/512M and used before we had 1G RAM

With the current A+(512) being the equivalent of the Zero with DSI.
I'm sure the simple touch control screens people setup works fine.

[DougieLawson]

Same applies to 1B, 1A, A+, [2A when/if it emerges] & B+ those Raspberries are not good for running GUI bloatware.

[bensimmo]

Same applies to 1B, 1A, A+, [2A when/if it emerges] & B+ those Raspberries are not good for running GUI bloatware.

Not good for Pixel & Chrome, a desktop setup. But for simple control touch screen that people use them for.

Saying that, how many people actually use DSI and the Pi Screen. A lot less than use the camera.

I see no point in it myself, need it then buy the A+, it's still smaller than a 7" display.

[Gavinmc42]

If you use Chrome on a Zero you must be just a little crazy.
Ethernet does help too when browsing.
Pixel desktop and Chrome on Zero

Try piCore with X win and ?? browser.
Actually not sure if a JS browser runs on piCore Linux, Fifth?
Have not tried Fifth yet, but the TC desktop on piCore is not bad.
http://fifth-browser.sourceforge.net/propaganda.html.
This might be worth testing on the Pi3 TV box, wonder if Fifth can play youtubes?
One way to find out. if it works, same SDcard gets tested on a Zero

Headless or baremetal GUI on Zero, this seems silly we have 500MB and 1GHz, where's Window 3.1?
Not quite there yet but Ultibo has no problems with simple GUI stuff, whole app <3MB, memory to spare.
Remember when a OS fit on a single 1.44MB floppy?
Still needs WiFi/BT working for Zero W. Any hope for a JS embedded browser unit in Pascal?

Going to need decent res for web stuff, min 800x480?
Web on 320x240 screen? Text mode Lynx?

[tarkshya]

Using the touch screen infers using a GUI. Using a GUI with the touch screen needs GPU memory = 128MB. Stealing 128MB from a 512MB machine means you won't have enough RAM left for running a browser or any other RAM hungry bloatware.

I think the recommended memory is 64Mb for a GUI, only if you use the camera you need 128Mb. I have run the videocore open gl/egl demos with both 64 MB and 128 MB, they run the same (on a pi a+ with 512MB RAM) . and the UI (linux) runs similarly too. Ofcourse heavy duty apps like browsers etc may need more RAM. But basic browsing with the default browser is not that bad (although slow).

I was thinking more about the cost factor of using the DSI connector and it promoting the official touch display.

[gregeric]

Currently, there's only one screen you can attach to the DSI connector, and it's a big one.

The form factor of the Zero is wasted on the 7" panel - you can hide any Pi model behind that, including the CM/CMIO board, the biggest of the lot.

Until such time as there's a 65x30mm DSI panel, and supported by the Pi, then a DSI on the Zero is pointless, other than to save you a few quid off the price of a (3)A+.

[alphanumeric]

Lots of small PiTFT touch screens out there that will connect via the GPIO. Just saying. IMHO, much better suited to a Zero than trying to use DSI.

[jamesh]

Cost and layout reasons. And there is only low demand for it. Imagine raising the cost of EVERY Pi Zero, for only a small percentage of users making use of the connector. At the cost fo the Zero, it would be a fair percentage hike.

[tarkshya]

Cost and layout reasons. And there is only low demand for it. Imagine raising the cost of EVERY Pi Zero, for only a small percentage of users making use of the connector. At the cost fo the Zero, it would be a fair percentage hike.

That demand thing may be true. But if you remove the HDMI connector (which is metal) and add this DSI (plastic), does it still affect the cost ? Will not taking out the HDMI (possibly) give the extra space for DSI layout ?

[Gavinmc42]

Will not taking out the HDMI (possibly) give the extra space for DSI layout ?

But what would be the point?
I have plenty of HDMI/DVI monitors/TV's that can plug into the Zero.
I don't have a single DSI LCD/OLED.... except one single 7" LCD at work.

[W. H. Heydt]

Currently, there's only one screen you can attach to the DSI connector, and it's a big one.

For some values of "big". Back when the 7" display started being talked about, the idea of following it with a 10" display was mentioned. I have to say that I'd really like to see a 10" one.

On the other hand, a 3.5" or 4" (or even 5" if it has a *really* narrow bezel) that connected to the DSI would be kind of cool, though I suspect it would cost rather more than the 3.5" ones I'm using right now ($25 each), but it might have much better resolution and refresh rate.

[alphanumeric]

Currently, there's only one screen you can attach to the DSI connector, and it's a big one.

For some values of "big". Back when the 7" display started being talked about, the idea of following it with a 10" display was mentioned. I have to say that I'd really like to see a 10" one.

On the other hand, a 3.5" or 4" (or even 5" if it has a *really* narrow bezel) that connected to the DSI would be kind of cool, though I suspect it would cost rather more than the 3.5" ones I'm using right now ($25 each), but it might have much better resolution and refresh rate.

A 10 inch with a narrow bezel would be nice.

[jamesh]

Cost and layout reasons. And there is only low demand for it. Imagine raising the cost of EVERY Pi Zero, for only a small percentage of users making use of the connector. At the cost fo the Zero, it would be a fair percentage hike.

That demand thing may be true. But if you remove the HDMI connector (which is metal) and add this DSI (plastic), does it still affect the cost ? Will not taking out the HDMI (possibly) give the extra space for DSI layout ?

????? The HDMI connector is used by almost everyone at some point! We cannot remove that!

[alphanumeric]

I don't see the point of swapping out HDMI for DSI? That would just make the Zero less desirable, IMHO. Even if it was a separate model all its own I wouldn't think you'd sell very many. It's just not worth the time and resources to produce it for the select few that "might" want one..

[fruitoftheloom]

Cost and layout reasons. And there is only low demand for it. Imagine raising the cost of EVERY Pi Zero, for only a small percentage of users making use of the connector. At the cost fo the Zero, it would be a fair percentage hike.

That demand thing may be true. But if you remove the HDMI connector (which is metal) and add this DSI (plastic), does it still affect the cost ? Will not taking out the HDMI (possibly) give the extra space for DSI layout ?

If you can not accept that your wish / demand will not happen, may I suggest you purchase a different SBC which fits your requirements.

As long as a SBC supports Armbian OS you will have a similar Debian respin to Raspbian.

[jamesh]

As stated above, for demand vs cost and layout reasons this is VERY unlikely to happen, and no amount of discussion is likely to change that.