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Gavinmc42
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:21 am

BUT, why did it get so hot that it melted the plastic?
Any teenager in the house by any chance?
They seen to like looking in the fridge, at the light?
Er any kid will do, don't really need a teenager.
Maybe the cat likes sleeping with the light on?
But Unix (or vi) is user-friendly
Who's Vi? Any relation to Sed, Awk?
Geany is much nicer and you can get it for Windows and it can compile stuff too.

Still worth it for the
Current Bush
Gboard? Ok, that's why I don't know what it was, Android Tablet thingy.
Never get to see Android these days, the kid has taken possession of it for YouTube.

I had a celebration when the "New" Nokia 3310 was announced.
Won't smash when I sit on it, fits in a pocket or belt clip.
Battery standby for up to a month.
That means it does not need to live on the table with all the other Smart things on recharge.
Fighting over USB charge cables etc....

Found my fridge light door switch, it works but does not looks very strong, new fridge, lets see how long it lasts.
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CarlRJ
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:41 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:Who's Vi? Any relation to Sed, Awk?
Geany is much nicer and you can get it for Windows and it can compile stuff too.
What is this "Windows" of which you speak? All worthy operating systems are Unix-based, including macOS. Geany is certainly _not_ much nicer. It might be prettier, but no text editor has yet matched Vi(/Vim/MacVim) for economy of finger movement. :mrgreen:

stderr
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:54 am

CarlRJ wrote: no text editor has yet matched Vi(/Vim/MacVim) for economy of finger movement. :mrgreen:
When someone says that, I ask about the esc key, which is hardly in an economical location given the use it's made of in vi. Then someone says that they just remap some sane key to esc, like the otherwise never used caps lock key.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:41 am

I use a mouse not fingers ever since IBM XT keyboard went extinct.
It all went downhill when The AT keyboard came out.
Why put those function keys up there?

Cut and paste programming with two fingers and one thumb max
Never could figure out why 101 keys, I only have 10 fingers.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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rurwin
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:25 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:Never could figure out why 101 keys, I only have 10 fingers.
Have you ever tried the Micro Writer? It might be extinct now but I am told it was great to use once you learned it.



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mfa298
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:05 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
But Unix (or vi) is user-friendly
Who's Vi? Any relation to Sed, Awk?
Geany is much nicer and you can get it for Windows and it can compile stuff too.
Vim works just fine on windows and (and pretty much every other operating system I've used)

tvjon
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:13 am

I still have my MicroWriter Agenda, but the batteries are long gone, & ISTR there was a technical problem with it the last time I used it.

https://sites.google.com/site/cykeybellaire/

still does repairs.

I found it easier to learn than qwerty, & haven't forgotten the technique.

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CarlRJ
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:15 am

stderr wrote:
CarlRJ wrote: no text editor has yet matched Vi(/Vim/MacVim) for economy of finger movement.
When someone says that, I ask about the esc key, which is hardly in an economical location given the use it's made of in vi. Then someone says that they just remap some sane key to esc, like the otherwise never used caps lock key.
Yep, you have to reach for Esc. In the good old days, it was next to "1", and was the upper left corner of the layout, and you could just take a stab in that direction and get it with no trouble. Then some idiot moved it up a row. Still, I'll gladly reach a bit for the Escape key in exchange for not having to do finger gymnastics involving the function keys, arrow keys, option/alt/meta/compose, or heaven forbid, having to reach for the mouse, for something so simple as moving around or selecting text. I didn't say it was perfect, I said that no other editor has yet attained the same economy of finger movement. Oh, and I have the Caps Lock key mapped back to Control, the way God and IBM intended it to be.

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rurwin
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:29 am

So vi is the editor that has the greatest economy of finger movement so long as you remap the keys?

I was an emacs man through and through but the last straw came in 2014 when they deleted the cookie recipes.

jEdit all the way now.

Key-only editors do have one disadvantage. A colleague once told me he'd had a narrow escape trying to find the delete-word function. It went something like:

Shift-Delete? No.
Control-Delete? No.
Alt-Delete? No.
Control-Shift-Delete? No
Control-Alt-Delete? WAIT! NO!

(And yes this was in the DOS era.)

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CarlRJ
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:00 am

rurwin wrote:So vi is the editor that has the greatest economy of finger movement so long as you remap the keys?
No, I didn't say that. I said the first half of that, and then added that I also remap control onto the caps lock key. This is an additional win, not something that is necessary to make vi the best editor. The disadvantage you cite for keyboard-based editors would only apply to those that make a habit of requiring users to use both hands, a foot, and their nose, all at the same time, in order to hit those seven-keys-at-once-combinations (google control-meta-cokebottle or space-cadet keyboard sometime). Vi doesn't normally use the function keys, alt, option, command, and such (just standard ASCII keystrokes), so it's no more likely to trick a user into, say, ctrl-alt-delete, than your entirely-mouse-based editor.

On bad keystrokes, though, I do recall a time when I was logged in from a friend's house to quickly fix something, late at night (not just dialup but on an actual terminal), and did a "kill -1 1" to get init to re-read the ttys file to bring our second modem online... except the friend's terminal had a sticky "-" key... so it ended up being "kill 1 1", killing init and bringing the system down. Following by a hasty and annoying after-midnight drive into the office to reboot it.

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:34 pm

CarlRJ wrote:
Gavinmc42 wrote:Who's Vi? Any relation to Sed, Awk?
Geany is much nicer and you can get it for Windows and it can compile stuff too.
What is this "Windows" of which you speak? All worthy operating systems are Unix-based, including macOS. Geany is certainly _not_ much nicer. It might be prettier, but no text editor has yet matched Vi(/Vim/MacVim) for economy of finger movement. :mrgreen:
macOS? Apple are the mother of all evil!
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:48 pm

This may be a thread of random, but if it turns in to a thread of one OS against another, or editor wars, I will close it.
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:36 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:I use a mouse not fingers ever since IBM XT keyboard went extinct.
It all went downhill when The AT keyboard came out.
Why put those function keys up there?

Cut and paste programming with two fingers and one thumb max
Never could figure out why 101 keys, I only have 10 fingers.
My wife once called Apple support (she had a Mac at work) to find out if there were keyboard shortcuts for everything she did. The answer was "no", with the support person asking "Why not just use the mouse?" The answer to that was that since she typed at something over 100 wpm, using the mouse slowed her down. She didn't want to take her hands off the keyboard unless it was absolutely necessary.

blaablaaguy
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:11 pm

I cant believe how off topic this thread has got.

jamesh wrote:This may be a thread of random, but if it turns in to a thread of one OS against another, or editor wars, I will close it.
Sorry. :oops:
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Heater
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:24 pm

blaablaaguy,
I cant believe how off topic this thread has got.
Yeah. Problem is, I find it really hard to be snarky on demand. It has to come naturally or it just does not come out right.

Still, all the "off topic" stuff along the way has been much more interesting than the OP.

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:55 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Gavinmc42 wrote:I use a mouse not fingers ever since IBM XT keyboard went extinct.
It all went downhill when The AT keyboard came out.
Why put those function keys up there?

Cut and paste programming with two fingers and one thumb max
Never could figure out why 101 keys, I only have 10 fingers.
My wife once called Apple support (she had a Mac at work) to find out if there were keyboard shortcuts for everything she did. The answer was "no", with the support person asking "Why not just use the mouse?" The answer to that was that since she typed at something over 100 wpm, using the mouse slowed her down. She didn't want to take her hands off the keyboard unless it was absolutely necessary.
I used to work for a competitor to Quantel, who produced the venerable Paintbox, and we worked on a competitor product to it. Once of the design criteria was that, when using a graphics tablet (this was early 90's btw) that the user did not want to move the pen too far from where they were working to the menus. So we had swipe on swipe off menus, with the most common options closer to the workspace. It really did make a difference when you had a skilled operator at full tilt.

Things seem to have gone downhill since then, with the ribbon bar in MS products, and a myriad of other 'user features' that have just made things more complicated.
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Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

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rurwin
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:16 pm

It used to be the case that for any half-way complex application, you could depend on the user being willing to put a few hours into learning how to use it.

Not so much, now.

There are several reasons for that. They are not paying huge amounts of money for every copy, there are many competing products out there, and many users are less computer literate or only use an application occasionally.

No great conspiracy or unwarranted dumbing down, it's just that the demographic has changed. I hate the ribbon bar probably as fervently as anyone; I think it is fundamentally flawed and it doesn't do a good job, but the reasoning that created it is sound.

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 pm

jamesh wrote: I used to work for a competitor to Quantel, who produced the venerable Paintbox, and we worked on a competitor product to it.

Aha, I spy "the enemy"!
At onr point i had installed 3 of the 5 Quantel EditBoxes in the country, At £600,000 a pop for ~40U of rack space, that was quite a bit of kit. What was the competitor? Lightwave?
>)))'><'(((<

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:34 pm

aTao wrote:
jamesh wrote: I used to work for a competitor to Quantel, who produced the venerable Paintbox, and we worked on a competitor product to it.

Aha, I spy "the enemy"!
At onr point i had installed 3 of the 5 Quantel EditBoxes in the country, At £600,000 a pop for ~40U of rack space, that was quite a bit of kit. What was the competitor? Lightwave?
Spaceward Research's Matisse system.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
"My grief counseller just died, luckily, he was so good, I didn't care."

drgeoff
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:14 pm

An good example of one of the types of posts mentioned when the focus was still on-topic.
viewtopic.php?p=1130096#p1130096

blaablaaguy
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:15 pm

drgeoff wrote:An good example of one of the types of posts mentioned when the focus was still on-topic.
viewtopic.php?p=1130096#p1130096
I dont see it. Whats wrong with that thread? IMO the poster who replied offered helpful advice.
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Heater
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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:51 pm

I don't see any issue with the thread drgeoff links to either.

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:27 am

Heater wrote:I don't see any issue with the thread drgeoff links to either.
I don't know, I was pretty offended by drgeoff's own comment:
Come back here if you still have problems after you have an OS running.

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:56 am

stderr wrote:
Heater wrote:I don't see any issue with the thread drgeoff links to either.
I don't know, I was pretty offended by drgeoff's own comment:
Come back here if you still have problems after you have an OS running.
Well...what he said was on point in that thread. Though given that it's in "Beginners", I think that I would have pointed out that the SoC has to boot in order for the LAN9514 chip to power the USB ports. That *appears* in a light reading to be what that OPs problem is, his external devices aren't getting power from USB ports when he "boots" the Pi without an SD card. As far as I understand it (without going and doing a bunch of research), in that scenario, the LAN9514 will never provide output power to the USB ports because the initialization won't take place.

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Re: Snarky non-responses to questions

Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:57 am

This special thread gets to live in General discussion and Off topic discussion at the same time. :)

Return to “Off topic discussion”