bubblegumpi
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Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:31 am

I really want to make a pi3 into a cable box with netflix and hulu. Basically something that my mother can figure out so I can get rid of comcast cable at her house. If something works for arm that means it works on the pi right?
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

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B.Goode
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:35 am

If something works for arm that means it works on the pi right?
No. Wrong.

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bensimmo
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:37 am

No, not really. While they have the IoT version of Win10 running already, they would need to specifically compile a desktop version for the Pi, but they're currently only targeting a version on Snapdragons processors. No idea how long before we see anything from that.
Sit and wait and you could have hope.
Else look for other ways to do what you want.

Can LibraElec or Kodi not do what you need?

Martin Frezman
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:39 am

The short answer to the question in the title/subject line is "No and never". And even if it did, it wouldn't help you in any meaningful way, because none of your existing, x86-based, software would run on it.

Also, I believe it is considered impossible for Netflix (and probably Hulu as well) to run on the Pi, due to licensing stuff.
If this post appears in the wrong forums category, my apologies.

ghodan
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:37 pm

Martin Frezman wrote:The short answer to the question in the title/subject line is "No and never". And even if it did, it wouldn't help you in any meaningful way, because none of your existing, x86-based, software would run on it.

Also, I believe it is considered impossible for Netflix (and probably Hulu as well) to run on the Pi, due to licensing stuff.
Not never. But 2017.
They have windows 10 and Adobe Photoshop x86 version running on Arm without tweaking the photoshop software.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/snapdrago ... snapdragon

ejolson
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:57 pm

Martin Frezman wrote:Also, I believe it is considered impossible for Netflix (and probably Hulu as well) to run on the Pi, due to licensing stuff.
Although the original Pi used the same ARM chip as the original Roku media player, the software is different. The purpose of Netflix and Hulu are to restrict what you can do with your computer using digital rights management. The purpose of the Pi is to create a flexible general purpose computer for children to learn programming.

If you want to teach your mom programming in Python, the Pi is a great choice. If you want to watch Netflix and Hulu, buy a similarly-priced internet-connected bluray player.

Martin Frezman
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:05 pm

Comments on the previous two postings:

1) Thank you, ejolson, for (re-) stating exactly what I had already said.

2) Comments about "snapdragon" are irrelevant. If you need help re-parsing the Title/Subject line of this thread, please PM me for assistance.

3) It actually *is* possible to run Windows on the Pi, although I myself have not (yet) done so. First of all, you must limit yourself to Windows 95/98; anything later than that will be un-bearable. So, for people for whom Windows starts with Windows 10 (i.e., that's the only versions they've ever used), you can stop reading now. Anyway, at least one poster here has gotten it to work using QEMU, and at least one other poster says you can install and run it via DOSBOX. I have yet to test either of these ideas.

But the thing is, for many purposes (including the primary one to which I would put this capability), running Win 95/98 would actually be good enough. In fact, I'm pretty sure that at least some version of "Photoshop" runs under Win 95/98.
If this post appears in the wrong forums category, my apologies.

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bensimmo
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:27 pm

If it's Netflix and Hulu, then would a Fire TV dongle not just be easier and cheaper, they are very easy to use.
Assuming no SmartTV/DVD.

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bensimmo
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:30 pm

Martin Frezman wrote:Comments on the previous two postings:

1) Thank you, ejolson, for (re-) stating exactly what I had already said.

2) Comments about "snapdragon" are irrelevant. If you need help re-parsing the Title/Subject line of this thread, please PM me for assistance.

3) It actually *is* possible to run Windows on the Pi, although I myself have not (yet) done so. First of all, you must limit yourself to Windows 95/98; anything later than that will be un-bearable. So, for people for whom Windows starts with Windows 10 (i.e., that's the only versions they've ever used), you can stop reading now. Anyway, at least one poster here has gotten it to work using QEMU, and at least one other poster says you can install and run it via DOSBOX. I have yet to test either of these ideas.

But the thing is, for many purposes (including the primary one to which I would put this capability), running Win 95/98 would actually be good enough. In fact, I'm pretty sure that at least some version of "Photoshop" runs under Win 95/98.

Why is snapdragon irrelevant ?
Given the OP assumed it would work on arm, an explanation that that what for snapdragon based specs as per MS announcement is pretty relevant. Or can you not read the last sentence?
People can parse it for you if you desire.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:31 pm

ghodan wrote:
Martin Frezman wrote:The short answer to the question in the title/subject line is "No and never". And even if it did, it wouldn't help you in any meaningful way, because none of your existing, x86-based, software would run on it.

Also, I believe it is considered impossible for Netflix (and probably Hulu as well) to run on the Pi, due to licensing stuff.
Not never. But 2017.
They have windows 10 and Adobe Photoshop x86 version running on Arm without tweaking the photoshop software.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/snapdrago ... snapdragon
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=169580

The hardware specifications far exceed what the RPi 3B offers...........
Rather than negativity think outside the box !

Asus ChromeBox 3 Celeron is my other computer.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:33 pm

bensimmo wrote:If it's Netflix and Hulu, then would a Fire TV dongle not just be easier and cheaper, they are very easy to use.
Assuming no SmartTV/DVD.
+1 or alternatively a Roku Media Streaming Device. Either will be easier for OPs Mum
Rather than negativity think outside the box !

Asus ChromeBox 3 Celeron is my other computer.

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CarlRJ
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:36 pm

Martin Frezman wrote:1) Thank you, ejolson, for (re-) stating exactly what I had already said.

2) Comments about "snapdragon" are irrelevant. If you need help re-parsing the Title/Subject line of this thread, please PM me for assistance.
Perhaps you missed the forum's one rule: "The rules are simple. Be good to each other. This means be kind, be civil, don't spam." You are in the Raspberry Pi Foundation's house. They've asked everyone to be nice to each other. It's not that hard to do.

It is common to get multiple similar answers to a question on the forums. Not ideal, but it happens. In this case, ejolson most certainly did not say exactly what you had said, he added some information and made a quite practical suggestion to help with the OP's stated problem, not just the title of the post (titles of posts are frequently misleading when one sees what the post actually asks). And the comments about Windows running on Snapdragon are relevant to a discussion of the topic. They might be looking down a path that won't be taken, but they are material related to the topic at hand. Threads here are for discussion; the format is not "person asks a question, you give the One True Answer, then the thread is closed." Rather, the topic gets discussed and elaborated upon, and we all benefit.

Answering the post's title, in this case, entirely misses addressing what the OP is actually seeking. Current versions of Windows are highly unlikely to run on the Pi any time soon, but the OP's need would be better addressed, anyway, by a Roku/FireTV/AppleTV box, which all have Netflix/Hulu apps, remote controls, and a nice "10ft" interface. The AppleTV is spendy, but the "stick" versions of Roku and FireTV cost less than a properly kitted Raspberry Pi.

Heater
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:30 pm

Good grief. What is the commotion about?

Windows does not run on anything, including the Pi, until such time as Microsoft makes it so.

Even then that is pretty useless for all the applications that I'm sure are not provided in ARM versions.

Yes, one can run ancient Windows 95 or whatever under emulation. That is neat from a software archeology point of view.

Except it is not really. The source code is not available and who cares what binary only applications ran on it at that time?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

bubblegumpi
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:22 am

B.Goode wrote:
If something works for arm that means it works on the pi right?
No. Wrong.
That was a really helpful reply. It also helped me learn why ARM architecture is different. Also windows just announced that they are working on windows for ARM so it's a totally valid question, perhaps you should keep up with this stuff if you are going to contribute something useful to a forum devoted to learning.


Anyways, a bit off the subject but is there a single board computer like the pi that will run windows? I'm trying to make this thing cheap and easy to use, so I don't wan't to buy a blueray player with the internet since I don't own any blue rays, and also trying to keep clear of proprietary stuff. Just want a cheap solution to making a 20$ a month "cable box" like at my house. I run an old lap top into my TV and use the wireless keyboard as the remote. I refuse to subscribe to cable at over 100 bucks a month to watch reruns and commercials.
My total entertainment bill comes to ~70 bucks a month including the internet. You can totally replace the TV with youtube, hulu, netflix and an antenna. And I don't have to pay extra for HD.
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

ghodan
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:42 am

[/quote]
Anyways, a bit off the subject but is there a single board computer like the pi that will run windows?[/quote]

Well if you really want a pi sized pc with a x86 cpu you can buy the Up board made by a daughter company of Asus:
http://www.up-board.org/up/

Same form factor as a Pi but NOT the same price tag.

plugwash
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:49 am

Basically it's down to Microsoft.

Afaict there is no technical reason why they couldn't release an uncrippled version of windows for the Pi but so-far at least they have chosen not to do so.

Heater
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:50 am

bubblegumpi,

No, no. Windows does not run anywhere unless MS makes it possible. In a past life some kind of main stream Windows has run on Alpha processors and such like. There is now a Windows 10 that runs on 64 bit ARM machines (from ACER at least). That is far away from being a Windows on the Pi.
...and also trying to keep clear of proprietary stuff. ..
Wait a minute. How much more proprietary than Windows can we get?
My total entertainment bill comes to ~70 bucks a month including the internet.
I'm not sure what to make of that. My "entertainment" bill for a month is more than I like to think about. Mostly food and alcohol. TV is zero (I have not owned a TV, ever) and all I can consume as much of the internet as I can stand for 10 Euros a month.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:00 am

bubblegumpi wrote: Anyways, a bit off the subject but is there a single board computer like the pi that will run windows? I'm trying to make this thing cheap and easy to use, so I don't wan't to buy a blueray player with the internet since I don't own any blue rays, and also trying to keep clear of proprietary stuff. Just want a cheap solution to making a 20$ a month "cable box" like at my house. I run an old lap top into my TV and use the wireless keyboard as the remote. I refuse to subscribe to cable at over 100 bucks a month to watch reruns and commercials.
Cheap and easy to use is where the "TV dongle" devices already mentioned come in. Depending on how you define "cheap" and how you define "single board computer", you could be talking about anything from the Intel Gallileo (assuming it's still being made) up to te the Intel NUC. None of them will approach the cost of a Pi, though. The issue here is that Intel and AMD are barely competitors. Intel sets whatever prices it likes (the current absolute top Intel CPU chip lists for $1500) and that leaves AMD a bit of room to struggle along undercutting Intel. The ARM business is much more cut throat. Many different companies competing and competing hard, which has driven prices far below what Intel will accept. The results show in relative sales...x86 on the order of 100 million units per year. ARM designs, over 1 billion units per year. Even within the ARM SBC market, the RPF/RPT are leveraging economies of scale. Eben remarked some months ago about the difficulty of scheduling production runs for "low volume" products...where he defined "low volume" as less than 500K units per year. No other SBC maker that I know of in the business matches that for their total production. and most aren't within an order of magnitude of it.

What it comes down to is that you're going to have trouble finding a passably modern x86 *chip* for the cost of an entire Pi, let alone an entire system.

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CarlRJ
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:52 am

bubblegumpi wrote:Anyways, a bit off the subject but is there a single board computer like the pi that will run windows?
I'm trying to make this thing cheap and easy to use, so I don't wan't to buy a blueray player with the internet since I don't own any blue rays, and also trying to keep clear of proprietary stuff.
Just want a cheap solution to making a 20$ a month "cable box" like at my house.
I run an old lap top into my TV and use the wireless keyboard as the remote.
I refuse to subscribe to cable at over 100 bucks a month to watch reruns and commercials.
Yes, there are single-board computers similar to the Pi, that run Windows. This is probably not the best place to seek a recommendation for one (we don't hate them or anything, it just isn't the primary topic here). And you're saying you're trying to steer clear of proprietary stuff, so you want to run... Windows? That's like the most proprietary OS you can choose.

You want cheap and easy access to Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube? Buy a Roku Streaming Stick, or Amazon Fire TV Stick. They're each about $40, as a one-time purchase, no extra fees. They come with remote controls, living-room-friendly UI's, and basically no setup/admin overhead, and they're plug&play and specifically designed for the task you say you want to do - streaming video from the major services. You just plug it in and sign into your existing Netflix/Hulu/YouTube accounts. This is the cheap solution you asked for. Problem solved.

I also refuse to pay the cable company $100/mo for reruns and commercials. I dropped my cable subscription nearly a year ago, and now watch mainly Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube, just like you. I use an AppleTV, because it plays extra nice with my iPhone, iPad, and Mac, but the scenario is basically the same as above. It is highly unlikely that you will find an easy-to-use streaming solution (that handles the major streaming clients) that is cheaper (after adding all the necessary bits) that the Roku or Fire TV devices mentioned above.

You might also want to take a look at the Pine64 single board computer. It's somewhat similar to the Pi, it can run Ubuntu, but it can also run Android, which means you may be able to run the Android versions of the Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube apps. And it starts at $20. There are also a variety of (mostly Android-based) streaming boxes out there that may be worth a look.

Your original title and post asked, effectively, "Will Windows be on the Pi soon? Because I want a cheap way to watch the major streaming services." There are many better solutions (which are immediately available) to the problem posed in your post, than the direction you specified with your title. (Modern) Windows on the Pi? Don't hold your breath, it's entirely up to Microsoft. Cheap way to watch the major streaming services? This is a solved problem, and doesn't involve Windows or the Raspberry Pi.

Heater
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:23 am

CarlRJ,
Yes, there are single-board computers similar to the Pi, that run Windows.
Do you have a link to such a thing? I have never seen one.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

ejolson
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:11 am

Heater wrote:CarlRJ,
Yes, there are single-board computers similar to the Pi, that run Windows.
Do you have a link to such a thing? I have never seen one.
Maybe this is a reference to the Intel NUC form factor, which is bigger than the Pi but still really small.

It is impossible to create a nonproprietary Hulu and Netflix media player, because Hulu and Netflix themselves are proprietary. Running the necessary proprietary software under Android has some merit as a do-it-yourself project. At the same time the main reason people create their own media players is because they want something different than Hulu and Netflix. I suspect my mom would be more amused by Scratch and Python than yet another media player.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:30 am

ejolson wrote:
Heater wrote:CarlRJ,
Yes, there are single-board computers similar to the Pi, that run Windows.
Do you have a link to such a thing? I have never seen one.
Maybe this is a reference to the Intel NUC form factor, which is bigger than the Pi but still really small.
For some values of "really small". It's also an order of magnitude (or more) more expensive than a Pi. About the only way it qualifies as an "SBC" is that the CPU is soldered to the motherboard.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:14 am

Rather than negativity think outside the box !

Asus ChromeBox 3 Celeron is my other computer.

james-at-lo-tech
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:33 am

Windows for me has become an odd beast as it with '10, it seems to be really quite unreliable technically but also very disjointed cosmetically. The hardware requirements are though the killer in terms of the RPi though as it's really quite unusable without an SSD. Running '10 on the RPi I think would be quite an exercise in frustration.

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bensimmo
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Re: Will windows soon work on the pi?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:37 am

Another option is of course the Windows TV sticks for £100 ish or whatever they are over in the US.
Never used one though, but gets you windows on a TV for cheap, with all the connectivity and speed you could want.
Small too.

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