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The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:45 am
by RaTTuS

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:11 am
by blaablaaguy
RaTTuS wrote:http://cube-drone.com/comics/c/holy-war

personally I use vi
But... I liked nano. I haven't tried any of the others though so maybe im not a phsycopath.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:12 am
by Heater
uh-oh.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:36 am
by ShiftPlusOne
Since it's not 1970s, I use Geany.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:42 am
by DougieLawson
Anything except nano or emacs works for me.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:51 am
by Heater
After a life long aversion to anything Microsoft a strange thing happened...

I started using MS Visual Studo Code: https://code.visualstudio.com/b?utm_exp ... ogle.fi%2F

VS Code is open source and cross platform. Runs on Linux, Mac and even on the Raspi 3.

For editing Javascript it's brilliant. Once you have the Eslint plugin. It integrates with git nicely. Haven't really tried it out for C/C++ or other languages yet but I suspect its cool there as well.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:27 pm
by flatmax
Vim till I get emacs installed :!:

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:42 pm
by jamesh
flatmax wrote:Vim till I get emacs installed :!:
emacs until I get anything else ever in the whole universe installed.

(actually, if the choice is emacs or scribing bits in the RAM with a pointed stick, I'd still go with the stick)

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:56 pm
by PeterO
Emacs for editing of source code. I used to run Wordstar on my old CP/M 2.2 Z80 machine, so I'm used to strange key press sequences :-)
Vi(m) for config files etc.

PeterO

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:19 pm
by blaablaaguy
Meh, these things are from the stone age. I use atom.

https://atom.io/

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:40 pm
by W. H. Heydt
I stick with vi and have been using it since the 1970s.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:09 pm
by DavidS
Kool:

And here I always thought that the war of editors was more of a RISC OS thing (mostley !StrongED, !Zap). The war never seems to have made it to the Atari world :) .

It is good to see that there is some competition of editors in the Unix world :) .

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:44 pm
by rpdom
On RISCOS I used to use Twin.

On Linux I mostly use Vi for the servers (which don't have X), or Geany/Gedit for editing local files on my laptop.

For some very limited systems I use sed to make changes to files as there are no full editors installed.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:48 pm
by W. H. Heydt
DavidS wrote:Kool:

And here I always thought that the war of editors was more of a RISC OS thing (mostley !StrongED, !Zap). The war never seems to have made it to the Atari world :) .

It is good to see that there is some competition of editors in the Unix world :) .
I don't think it's so much a competition as a combination of personal preference and the "baby duck" syndrome (that is: what editor were you exposed to first and got used to). There may also be a Berkeley vs. MIT component as well, since vi was written at UC Berkeley (and later licensed to AT&T who tried--and failed--to write a screen editor of their own) and Stallman's work on emacs at MIT.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:34 pm
by blc
I remember during my early tinkerings with Linux in the late 90's that the installer for one distro (I don't remember which) had a description for each package you could install (if you chose to edit the package loadout manually). Emacs was described as: "Eight Megabytes Always Constantly Swapping: You either love it or you hate it." I surmised then that this was referring to a high memory usage and I decided that I didn't need a simple text editor which eats up loads of memory; 8MB was a pretty serious chunk of RAM in those days... I never installed it then and never made the effort to even try it in the intervening decade and a half since then.

These days I use nano since I never learned vi commands. At this point I'm not willing to even learn vi; I could probably remember basic commands if I had no other choice, but I don't see the point of contorting myself into UI paradigm that hasn't really moved on in fourty years simply because it makes the GreyBeards happy and comfortable.

If I'm on Windows then it's notepad++ all the way.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:41 pm
by W. H. Heydt
I have no desire to try to coerce (in any way) others to use a particular editor. I use vi because (a) I'm used to it, (b) I know enough of it to do any editing tasks that come my way, and (c) it's available on most systems I use. (As was noted above, on Windows I use some version of Notepad, or even LibreOffice, and LibreOffice has the virtue that it can edit a Pi's config.txt while on a Windows system without newline issues.)

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:00 pm
by piglet
blc wrote:If I'm on Windows then it's notepad++ all the way.
Me too - but it truly sucks with very large files. Search and replace all on a big file on a fast i7 with lots of RAM and it grinds to a near halt. Time to get lunch and see if it's finished before you get back.

I have copied large files from Windows to 'nix servers to edit them there before copying back....


On 'nix boxes I hope to find vim aliased as vi.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:06 pm
by mahjongg
for a new user, one that has not used that editor before, its essential that he does not have to wonder how he can exit the editor, while saving the file, (and do other basic tasks) many editors fail to have that essential feature, and you need training to use them. which makes them less than useful.

also, editors should be "modeless" IMHO.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:46 pm
by scruss
mahjongg wrote:for a new user, one that has not used that editor before, its essential that he does not have to wonder how he can exit the editor, while saving the file, (and do other basic tasks) many editors fail to have that essential feature, and you need training to use them. which makes them less than useful.
Hence this:
exiting_vim.jpg
Exiting Vim, from @ThePracticalDev
exiting_vim.jpg (26.14 KiB) Viewed 5398 times
(source: @ThePracticalDev, https://twitter.com/ThePracticalDev/sta ... 2219813888 )

I've just found fte, which is a bit like the old MS-DOS 6 “edit” editor (aka the qbasic editor). Install it with

Code: Select all

sudo apt install fte-terminal
It supports mouse cursor movement and menus, even over ssh. Does cut and paste in the way humans might expect to.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:59 pm
by ShiftPlusOne
scruss wrote: Hence this:
exiting_vim.jpg
(source: @ThePracticalDev, https://twitter.com/ThePracticalDev/sta ... 2219813888 )
I thought that's what the power button was for.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:00 pm
by Heater
Ha, "Exiting Vim", I love it.

Strange thing happened today. ":q!" did not work. I hit ":" and I see a ":". Then I hit "q". The ":" goes away. Nothing happens. It did this many times. I was about to kill the terminal to get out of there but it eventually responded.

Never seen that happen before.

Anyway if getting out of vim is too hard one can always use Cream. A GUI wrapper around Vim: http://cream.sourceforge.net/features.html

Sadly not updated for many years.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:14 pm
by W. H. Heydt
While people have to be told, there really shouldn't be any mystery or dificulty to remembering ":wq". But, then, it does help to understand two things about vi. The first being that it is "dual mode" (you are either in command mode or append mode). The second is that it has a "lower level" that is actually a line editor, which is what is used when things like search and replace are done. Anything that needs an initial colon is a line editor command. I just can't remember whether line editor is ex or ed.

I will grant that doing ":g/<string>//s/<other string>/g" would be a little obscure for a beginner, though.

This does bring up another anecdote, though. My wife once wrote an "intro to unix" doc for the office she was working in (Institute for Urban and Regional Development at UC Berkeley). She got a frantic phone call one night from one of the faculty that did research with funding handled through IURD. Turned out, she'd forgotten to include how to log off from unix.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:19 pm
by Heater
You would think that in a world where people communicate with "WTF LOL U RTFM" the vim interface would be a natural. The unix shell commands as well.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:04 am
by jamesh
Heater wrote:You would think that in a world where people communicate with "WTF LOL U RTFM" the vim interface would be a natural. The unix shell commands as well.
Good point.

Re: The Holy war of editors

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:06 pm
by JAVE
I came from the Amiga, where I used Black's editor for a long time (Great Arexx interface for scripting the editor!).
When starting with Linux, I used pico for a while, but that was (is?) part of the mail client Pine. Later they released a standalone version called nano IIRC.

Then a friend spoke some wise words: "All Unix variants come standard with Vi installed. When you're able to use Vi, you don't need to install extra packages to be able to edit texts."

So I learned Vi, and with Vim these days, I'm happy I listened to him :-)

As for Emacs:
1: I don't have enough appendages to hit all those keys at the same time, and
2: I already have an operating system :-)