lilzz
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what happen when element got stripped of all its electrons.

Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:23 am

I want to design a pi based project ,
in a vaccum system, I put in some pure elements. I then bombard the element with 10,000V electron gun. Basically enough voltage and energy to drive away all its electrons of the element. I have a positive electrode inside to collect all those knocked out electrons.
Pauli Exclusion principle implies that object 's hardness is based this Pauli principle. I mean , 99% of an atom is empty space. Why object has its hardness is based on Pauli Principle.

But in my experiment, I knock out all its electrons of the element.
Is that mean, the element won't able to feel?

what happen when element got stripped all its electrons?

texy
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:12 am

It may be a 'pi based project' but until this question is answered and you start involving a pi, I'm moving it to off-topic ....

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Heater
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:48 am

An atom has a nucleus which is positively charged due to it's one or more protons. Around the nucleus swarms one or more negatively charged electrons. The atom as a whole is neutral, the positive and negative charges balance each other.

Now, we know from simple experiments with static electricity that positively charged things get attracted to negatively charged things. We also know that atoms take up space, they have a size. So that raises a question about our atom: How come those negatively charged electrons don't fall in towards the positively charged protons and the whole atom collapse into a single point?

We could speculate that the electrons are orbiting the nucleus and that the centripetal force of the rotation keeps the electrons from falling into the nucleus. Rather like the way the Earth does not fall into the sun as it orbits.

But, we also know, from experiments with electricity and Maxwell's equations that an accelerating charge generates elecro-magnetic waves that radiate into space. Those waves carry away energy. An electron orbiting a nucleus is under a constant acceleration so it would be expected to radiate away it's kinetic energy and the orbit would decay rather quickly until the electron fell into the nucleus.

This does not happen.Why not?

Well because, because the Pauli Exclusion principle.

Thing is, it's a principle. It has no proof. One can only observe that it is so and state that it is always so as a principle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle

Of course there is a lot more to it than I mention above.
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lilzz
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:45 pm

Heater wrote:An atom has a nucleus which is positively charged due to it's one or more protons. Around the nucleus swarms one or more negatively charged electrons. The atom as a whole is neutral, the positive and negative charges balance each other.

....
Of course there is a lot more to it than I mention above.

Now can on object electrons got knocked away by strong voltage?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:48 pm

10KV isn't going to strip all the electrons off of very many elements. I'd have to look up the binding energies for K-shell electrons to tell you the point at which your experiment will *not* strip them all, but it's going to be pretty early in the Periodic Table.

Hmmm... Looked it up...you're better off than I thought you'd be. The binding energy of K shell electrons doesn't exceed 10KeV until you get to Gallium.

drgeoff
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:20 pm

lilzz wrote:
Heater wrote:An atom has a nucleus which is positively charged due to it's one or more protons. Around the nucleus swarms one or more negatively charged electrons. The atom as a whole is neutral, the positive and negative charges balance each other.

....
Of course there is a lot more to it than I mention above.

Now can on object electrons got knocked away by strong voltage?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_emission

rzusman
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:27 pm

If you think you are going to strip off all the electrons and collect them, leaving a bare nucleus, you are mistaken.
An ion like that has a huge positive electric charge, and will immediately strip some of the electrons from it’s surrounding environment to replace the ones it has lost. The only way to make ions that stay charged for any length of time is to heat the element until it vaporizes, and then accelerate the ions through an ion gun in free space.

See: Focused Ion Beam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focused_ion_beam

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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:26 am

Possibly of interest:
https://home.cern/about/updates/2015/11 ... ord-energy
Lead nuclei stripped of all electrons, circulating rather fast, meet head-on.
The report I heard put each collision at the energy-level of a fly hitting a window - don't know how accurate that is. Or what sort of fly.

10kv ain't large - your old-fashioned colour telly used about 25kv, with no complaints from the customers about naked quarks lying on the carpet.

rpiowner
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Re: what happen when element got stripped of all its electro

Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:03 pm

lilzz wrote:I want to design a pi based project ,
in a vaccum system, I put in some pure elements. I then bombard the element with 10,000V electron gun. Basically enough voltage and energy to drive away all its electrons of the element. I have a positive electrode inside to collect all those knocked out electrons.
Pauli Exclusion principle implies that object 's hardness is based this Pauli principle. I mean , 99% of an atom is empty space. Why object has its hardness is based on Pauli Principle.

But in my experiment, I knock out all its electrons of the element.
Is that mean, the element won't able to feel?

what happen when element got stripped all its electrons?
Maybe you is have some ideas of what is happen? Why you not telling us what is probable happen ? In experience of me only, most time answer what is will happen first, putting 10 000 volt second. But I not agile.

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