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ric96
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Bash in Windows 10

Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:49 pm

What do you think and how do you fell about this kind of awkward situation?
Linux fanboys never really liked windows but now that windows has incorporated Linux into itself, how do you feel?
Personally, I feel a little bit happy that a giant like Microsoft has finally admitted that it needs to recognize Linux in a big way and is taking some steps but also this might mean that some people might not even get the chance of experiencing a true Linux OS just because running it on Windows is just convenient for them.

Anyways for those who want to see a quick look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXh5l-hGdM
My apologies for shameless YouTube Plugs...
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:50 pm

What's "awkward" about it and why should anyone using a Pi (or another full Linux system) care if MS wants to support bash on Win10? Strikes me as more of a desperation move on the part of MS than anything else.

hippy
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:13 pm

It doesn't seem to me to be much different to installing cygwin, mingw and similar which Windows users have been doing for years. If it gets the job done I'm all for it. 'Not quite native environments' may not be perfect but they do have their place and anything which makes a developer's job easier is welcome.

blc
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:39 pm

Microsoft are behaving in an odd fashion of late, but I have no doubts that they're all profit-driven moves: Linux images on Azure; open sourcing .NET; Win10 IoT on Pi; SQL Server on Linux; Linux-in-Windows; etc...

I think they're slowly catching on to the fact that the rest of the world is moving to the cloud, to containers, to "hyperscale" platforms, Everything-As-A-Service, etc, and by and large these are Linux-based platforms. They're almost dead in the water when it comes to the consumer market, and enterprise/server-side is where they've always made the big bucks anyway.

Steve Ballmer may have been a sweaty oafish clown, but he was right when he said "developers developers developers".

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Pilosopong Tasyo
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:08 pm

Windows Subsystem for Linux... welcome to the Wine project 1993 :twisted:
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

I think it's a really good thing.

Can't get it to work though. Apparently you have to enable windows Linux subsystem in dev mode but I can't see any such subsystem.

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ric96
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:02 pm

morphy_richards wrote:I think it's a really good thing.

Can't get it to work though. Apparently you have to enable windows Linux subsystem in dev mode but I can't see any such subsystem.
Search for add features, their you will see the option
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DougieLawson
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:32 pm

ric96 wrote:
morphy_richards wrote:I think it's a really good thing.

Can't get it to work though. Apparently you have to enable windows Linux subsystem in dev mode but I can't see any such subsystem.
Search for add features, their you will see the option
Thanks. I'm running Build 14316 of the Home Insider Preview and was able to add the Linux services stuff.
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Heater
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:00 pm

ric96,
What do you think and how do you fell about this [Bash in Windows 10]...
An old expression comes to mind, "It's like putting lipstick on a pig" :)

I have to object to the term "Linux fanboys". It's rather insulting the many thousands of smart, thoughtful, professional engineers all around the world that are building our computing infrastructure on Linux and Free and Open Source software.

If they don't like Windows, it's not because of any technical short comings it may have, or any technical superiority of Linux. It's much deeper than that. It's about freedom and control. It's about not having the base of your computing infrastructure beholden to a single corporation over which you have no influence and is for most in a foreign country. It's about securing your future.

As such, putting BASH on Windows changes little.

Although we could hope that any Windows users who try it out and get used to it will one day see the light and ask themselves "Hmmm...so why do I need Windows? I can do all this better on Linux or BSD or whatever"

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morphy_richards
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:20 pm

ric96 wrote: Search for ...
Ah.
CLI 1
GUI 0
;)

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:01 am

My only "PC" is an Asus ChromeBit running ChromeOS, cloudcentric at its best !
Rockchip Quad-Core RK3288C SoC as used in ASUS Chromebook C201 & Chromebook Flip C100PA as well as the Tinker SBC

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MarkHaysHarris777
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:34 am

Heater wrote: An old expression comes to mind, "It's like putting lipstick on a pig" :)
I agree.

The problem with bash on Win10 has more to do with the purpose of bash in the first place... its a unix shell... it makes absolutely no sense on Win10; because Win10 is not unix-like-- its just silly.

I do feel vindicated however-- Microsoft has finally admitted that gnu+linux is not a "cancer" (steve ballmerism) and rather than throwing chairs at us (another steve ballmerism) they have decided to embrace again...

... watch out
marcus
:ugeek:

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Pilosopong Tasyo
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:51 am

MarkHaysHarris777 wrote:...they have decided to embrace again...
...and [try to] extend
...and [try to] extinguish

All this Microsoft heart Linux brouhaha doesn't convince me one bit. History tends to repeat itself.
Give a man a ghoti and he'll eat for a day; teach him how to ghoti and he'll eat for life. Ghoti?! - http://i.imgur.com/mAfBUdi.png
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Heater
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:40 am

MarkHaysHarris777,
The problem with bash on Win10 has more to do with the purpose of bash in the first place... its a unix shell... it makes absolutely no sense on Win10; because Win10 is not unix-like-- its just silly
Actually there is something about that I don't understand.

Windows is supposed to have been posix compliant in some way back in the NT days. More recently they had "Windows Services for UNIX" in XP.

Given all that how come MS could not just take the bash sources and build it on Windows. Along with all the other command line goodies that come with Unix/GNU/Linux?

Why do they need to be running binaries compiled for Linux by Canonical ?

blc
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:48 am

Heater wrote:Given all that how come MS could not just take the bash sources and build it on Windows. Along with all the other command line goodies that come with Unix/GNU/Linux?
Because they have PowerShell (which is actually quite powerful).
Heater wrote:Why do they need to be running binaries compiled for Linux by Canonical ?
Because they want developers creating Linux applications & services using Windows tools which can then be deployed to Linux OS images running on their Azure platform.

It's a land grab, pure and simple. More developers = more people on their platform(s) = more money from their platform(s).

Heater
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:23 am

blc,

Sure they have Power Shell. I have no idea what that is about. But I see no reason why they could not have multiple shells like Unix does.
Because they want developers creating Linux applications & services using Windows tools which can then be deployed to Linux OS images running on their Azure platform.
Looks that way to me. I'm thinking the desktop OS is not the main concern for MS any more. Getting everyone hooked on their cloud services is. Hence there new found "love" of all things open source.
It's a land grab, pure and simple.
Yep.

blc
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:35 am

Heater wrote:Looks that way to me. I'm thinking the desktop OS is not the main concern for MS any more. Getting everyone hooked on their cloud services is. Hence there new found "love" of all things open source.
The desktop really isn't as big a market for them as it used to be - except when it comes to enterprise/business. From a consumer point of view they're really pushing the tablet/xbox angle hard, instead of the "traditional" desktop PC - "enthusiasts" and PC gamers like me are a small minority.

The enterprise is where they're pushing hard, hence the "friendliness" towards Linux of late. The whole world is moving to The Cloud (tm), which means scale-out deployment, containers, virtual machines, on-demand scaling, etc, and a lot of that stuff is all Linux-based. Basically what they're trying to say is, "It doesn't matter what you're building or what platform you're targeting, we've got you covered".

mimi123
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:12 pm

ric96 wrote:What do you think and how do you fell about this kind of awkward situation?
Linux fanboys never really liked windows but now that windows has incorporated Linux into itself, how do you feel?
Personally, I feel a little bit happy that a giant like Microsoft has finally admitted that it needs to recognize Linux in a big way and is taking some steps but also this might mean that some people might not even get the chance of experiencing a true Linux OS just because running it on Windows is just convenient for them.

Anyways for those who want to see a quick look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXh5l-hGdM
Add your DNS to /etc/resolv.conf

blc
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:15 pm

mimi123 wrote:
ric96 wrote:What do you think and how do you fell about this kind of awkward situation?
Linux fanboys never really liked windows but now that windows has incorporated Linux into itself, how do you feel?
Personally, I feel a little bit happy that a giant like Microsoft has finally admitted that it needs to recognize Linux in a big way and is taking some steps but also this might mean that some people might not even get the chance of experiencing a true Linux OS just because running it on Windows is just convenient for them.

Anyways for those who want to see a quick look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXh5l-hGdM
Add your DNS to /etc/resolv.conf
... Are you sure you're replying to the right thread there?

mimi123
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:24 pm

blc wrote:
mimi123 wrote:
ric96 wrote:What do you think and how do you fell about this kind of awkward situation?
Linux fanboys never really liked windows but now that windows has incorporated Linux into itself, how do you feel?
Personally, I feel a little bit happy that a giant like Microsoft has finally admitted that it needs to recognize Linux in a big way and is taking some steps but also this might mean that some people might not even get the chance of experiencing a true Linux OS just because running it on Windows is just convenient for them.

Anyways for those who want to see a quick look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXh5l-hGdM
Add your DNS to /etc/resolv.conf
... Are you sure you're replying to the right thread there?
Yep, the current Linux subsystem on Win10 doesn't set /etc/resolv.conf with the DNS, that's why ric96 doesn't have network

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topguy
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:28 pm

Which is shown in the video, but not mentioned in the thread text, causing the confusion...

stderr
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:46 pm

blc wrote:The desktop really isn't as big a market for them as it used to be - except when it comes to enterprise/business. From a consumer point of view they're really pushing the tablet/xbox angle hard, instead of the "traditional" desktop PC - "enthusiasts" and PC gamers like me are a small minority.
I suspect that most people have a PC but what they aren't doing so much is upgrading them or what matters from a MS prospective, buying new, since that means actual OEM Windows profits. If everyone has the Gate's GUI but it's just XP, that isn't making Microsoft any money.

But the idea that people want to go to tablets and smartphones as their only computer is ridiculous. I could use a Surface like tablet with a keyboard and mouse and a couple of other tablets linked in as auxiliary screens but I'd still want to get to a proper system if I could. And I wouldn't want to carry around a tablet that had a couple of 24" screens. So I think there's room for a mix, not to mention the reality that with the IoT stuff, there has got to be room for a new idea of "home computer", one that serves up media, monitors security, controls lights, and all that, a hub that is on all the time. That's not how people have traditionally viewed their home computer and I think this will be evolving.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:11 pm

stderr wrote:
blc wrote:The desktop really isn't as big a market for them as it used to be - except when it comes to enterprise/business. From a consumer point of view they're really pushing the tablet/xbox angle hard, instead of the "traditional" desktop PC - "enthusiasts" and PC gamers like me are a small minority.
I suspect that most people have a PC but what they aren't doing so much is upgrading them or what matters from a MS prospective, buying new, since that means actual OEM Windows profits. If everyone has the Gate's GUI but it's just XP, that isn't making Microsoft any money.

But the idea that people want to go to tablets and smartphones as their only computer is ridiculous. I could use a Surface like tablet with a keyboard and mouse and a couple of other tablets linked in as auxiliary screens but I'd still want to get to a proper system if I could. And I wouldn't want to carry around a tablet that had a couple of 24" screens. So I think there's room for a mix, not to mention the reality that with the IoT stuff, there has got to be room for a new idea of "home computer", one that serves up media, monitors security, controls lights, and all that, a hub that is on all the time. That's not how people have traditionally viewed their home computer and I think this will be evolving.
There's also the factor that PC performance is plateauing, with no major improvements in sight, so there is far less incentive to upgrade or replace PCs than there used to be. Couple that with the dislike disaster that was Win8 and a lot of people are "gun shy" about Win10...not to mention the amount of "data sharing"/"phoning home" that is the default in Win10.

In some respects, MS is its own worst enemy.

stderr
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:23 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:There's also the factor that PC performance is plateauing, with no major improvements in sight,
The GHz rating has been stagnant more or less for a decade. Keep in mind that the pi is just now touting 1.2GHz. Wow! But you are right that there is less reason perceived to update and the value of more cores hasn't been made generally clear. People who update a lot tend to be gamers.
amount of "data sharing"/"phoning home" that is the default in Win10.
This problem, which is pervasive not just in the OS but in nearly every app on android, hasn't stopped people from adopting it en masse. Of course it should be.

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morphy_richards
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Re: Bash in Windows 10

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:03 pm

I like heater's comment
"Hmmm...so why do I need Windows? I can do all this better on Linux or BSD or whatever"
Windows isn't going away, I don't think so anyway. For a while there it looked like it would but not anymore. I think raging against Windows is a bit like shouting at the Wind because it blew your kid's trampoline into next door's garden ... (Not sure about that analogy actually, comparing Windows to wind might be going too far. Que fart jokes :D )

Microsoft cannot take down Linux in the same way as the Motion Picture Association of America (of whatever they are called) can't take down bit torrents, no matter how hard they try.

Microsoft is a private organisation who must make a profit. I cant bring myself to hate them for that. Money is what makes the world go round in spite of my left leaning tendancies.

Linux is a movement driven by the will of human beings to do something good for the good of human beings. I love Linux because it's good, I can make better things with it and more easily and use it to teach computing principles better (with the exception of asp.net in Visual Studio which I find easier than php (but I would rather teach students using php for a sounder grounding)) I also love the idea of Linux to the bottom of my heart.

But I really like Windows and MS productivity SW too. I find for general purpose stuff it's hard to beat. I wouldn't have liked to teach DiDA or GCSE ICT for 10 years on a Debian system (although part of me would relish the challenge of trying)

Anyway, horses for courses but now there's more people using both frequently.

No one has really discussed Canonical here or their partnership. I was surprised to see Ubuntu available in Azure but this has knocked me for six. I had read opinions stating that they were in trouble and might not be around much longer. Let's say this is the case and MS saves them by "embracing" them, what then?

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