Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

[clive]

a) Man avoids hitting things with horse.
b) Mankind sets down mobile laboratory on another planet.

So - which one gets the front page of every UK national newspaper?

[alexchamberlain]

Yeah, but it cost $2.5 billion to land something on another planet.

[rurwin]

It only cost $2.5 billion to land the laboratory, whereas it cost $14.5 billion to avoid hitting things with a horse. The horse is obviously six times more important.

[jamesh]

a) Man avoids hitting things with horse.
b) Mankind sets down mobile laboratory on another planet.

So - which one gets the front page of every UK national newspaper?

And which is most important to the readership of that paper?

I'd say the horse stuff. And I'm a space fan....how that skycrane stuff ever worked is a mystery to me.

[alexchamberlain]

And $14.5 billion to avoid hitting things with a horse, so that is obviously the lead story since it cost more.

How'd you work that out!?!

Don't get me wrong. Landing on Mars is incredible, but when prioritising Scientific and Technological spending I can think of a lot of things that come above flying to Mars at a cost of $2.5 billion. Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?

[scep]

Yeah, but it cost $2.5 billion to land something on another planet.

That is a lot! You could build 25 ephemeral equestrian stadia with that and still have 10 million quid left over to buy two or three horses.

[clive]

...Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?

This is a false dichotomy. It's like the Godwin's law of space exploration debates

My point is how science and tech is viewed (and understood) by the average person. STEM is in crisis in many developing countries, certainly in the UK. The Raspberry Pi didn't come about for no reason

[rurwin]

But the articles were only the latest in the on-going Olympics story, and the Olympics has cost $14.5B, albeit there's a profit element that isn't factored in, but neither is it factored in to the Mars mission. I make no excuse for being flippant; the OP is flippant.

Regarding the skycrane, it does seem insanely complex and I have no insight into the design process, but two factors spring to mind. As someone who knows control loops, I would far rather stabilise an altitude of 20 feet than an altitude of zero feet with no overshoot possible. Then there is the problem of landing the craft only to have the exit ramp obstructed by a big boulder.

(Note: I edited the previous post, which is why Alex's quote of me is not word-perfect.)

[mikerr]

And $14.5 billion to avoid hitting things with a horse, so that is obviously the lead story since it cost more.

How'd you work that out!?!

That's the headline cost of staging the 2012 olympics.

Don't get me wrong. Landing on Mars is incredible, but when prioritising Scientific and Technological spending I can think of a lot of things that come above flying to Mars at a cost of $2.5 billion. Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?

$2.5 bn is tiny on a government level.

Curiosity has a power source to last 14+ years from a 4Kg package - but the public doesn't like nuclear in any form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Science_Laboratory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisoto ... _generator

There were/are even pacemakers using this tech that last 80+ years, battery powered pacemakers last 10 years.

So... nuclear powered Pi anyone ?

[Burngate]

I have to ask ... Re Red Dwarf ...
If Curiosity killed the Cat, do we have an extradition treaty with Mars?

[gritz]

I have to ask ... Re Red Dwarf ...
If Curiosity killed the Cat, do we have an extradition treaty with Mars?

Ouch!

Re MSL v. Olympics: I think there's plenty of room for both, but as a space geek I have to say that $2.5Bn for the Mars mission looks like a bargain.

"But it's a lot of money for a 6 wheeled thingy with a few cameras and whatnot."

It's not just about the hardware though. It's about the scientists, engineers and young graduates behind the project. Excellence, teamwork, interpreting data when you have no benchmarks and problem solving on the hoof with such high stakes are all transferable skills. This project will breed a lot of uber boffins and in a world where cheap-ass mediocrity is the norm (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not) I think it's good to set some examples of no-compromise superlatives - and I guess that applies to the Olympics as well as to science. No one ever got inspired by "almost good enough."

Remember that NASA has already tried the "faster, better, cheaper" thing and found that they could only ever perm two out of three at best...

Anyway, hats off to the scientists and engineers involved with Curiosity (and hats off to the British Olympians too!)

[pygmy_giant]

And there's the added value of spin-offs... I look forward to seeing sky cranes being used commercially on our planet in the near future, and horses on strictly come dancing.

[abishur]

Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?

To be fair, we currently have total solutions to the world's energy problems... except that the means has been really demonized by people who don't understand it

That and it costs a truckload of money to build an energy plant, especially one that isn't coal. So there are lots of discouragements from building new coal power plants to meet rising demand (and I'm a-okay with that! ), nuclear power is considered the devil (a very expensive devil at that!), solar requires too much land for too little payoff (unless you're Israel and distribute the grid across everyone's roof), which effectively leaves you with wind. It get's great publicity, relatively cheap to set up, relatively small amounts of land required... still a fairly poor payoff, but upkeep is very low cost so it makes it monetarily worth while, and everyone collectively turns a blind eye to the fact it increases erosion and kill massive amounts of migratory birds since it's "green"

So you see that there *is* a solution. It's just expensive and can't get political backing. So they throw some coliseum games our way and hope that no one cares that they play the violin while Rome burns

*whew* I think that used up my yearly allotment of cynicism!

[alexchamberlain]

Wasn't there a break through in the States using IR antennas as an "IR solar panel" at much higher efficiencies? What happen to that?

Whilst I'm cool with Nuclear power, there have been a few problems over the years, so I can understand people saying No.

[Jim JKla]

Here comes my ten penneth.

The current rush of medals in the velodrome + Wiggo is gona get a load of people on bykes thats got to help our carbon footprint.

Down side on the horses (and there's a couple) the first the methane source and the second the biggest element of the average family carbon footprint is a pet dog pet horses have to be equally as bad.

If we don't solve the global warming stuff at least we know how to power a car on Mars it may also find some prime real estate and heaven knows what else.

Another benifit no nimbyism with wind terbines on Mars.

[rurwin]

Horses are only machines for converting carbon dioxide into methane via grass. That's not harmless, since IIRC methane is worse than CO2 for climate change, but it is not as bad as it is painted and it is carbon-neutral. If the grass was left to rot it would probably produce around the same amount of methane.

Of course what we should be doing is growing trees, reducing them to charcoal and burying it in old coal mines.

[Jim JKla]

Correct that just grow trees and bury in coal mines turning them into charcoal releases some of the co2.

There has to be more efficient plants than trees anyways.

[mahjongg]

Have not read the whole thread, but let me guess:

UK newspapers?

[Jim JKla]

Have not read the whole thread, but let me guess:

It's not that big

[Grumpy Mike]

The current rush of medals in the velodrome + Wiggo is gona get a load of people on bykes thats got to help our carbon footprint.

Until all those people want to be carted all over the country to attend bicycle "events" think of the fuel that will use.

[pygmy_giant]

My bicycle was stolen, so there is definately a demand.

[MadHorseman]

Has anyone else ever tried missing things with a horse? Not easy, especially when sitting in an engineless wheeled device behing said animal....

[Jim JKla]

I tried, the horse suceeded, I didn't, I fell off and after the third time I gave up.

Kind of prooved it was the horse doing the work and not me.

That would also kind of proove that the skill is in staying on the horse (that is avoiding things).

[Burngate]

Led the horse through the gate, went back to shut the gate, the horse put its back hoof on my foot, and waited for me to lead it forward.

[RaTTuS]

you can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead,
mate!
HMHB