raspafarian
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:08 pm

I'm easily confused but the raspberry pi site(s) has me very muddled. I signed up for email alerts (newsletters - whatever) but didn't get anything beyond a welcome message so I keep regularly going back to the site to check what's happening and now I've stumbled into a sign in which said 'invalid user' and eventually I signed up to what I now realise is the forum, in the meantime I had wandered off to the shop and was trying to sign in but of course it sodded me off and I signed up all over again for the shop. I hope there isn't an extra sign in for demented old programmers.

obarthelemy
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:26 pm

Many people are surprised that the mailing list is not used for spamming... actually is not used at all up to this day... it *will* be used to send an email once the shop opens for business. Chaos will ensue ^^

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:50 pm

My son is a right PITA. I'm all achey and stuffed up, the trouble and strife is home sick again (3rd day in a row and she is really annoying when she's sick), there is only instant coffee in the house :( and he has just handed me 20 pages of double sided A4 and said he needs it typed up and uploaded to turnitin by 6pm and that he doesn't have time to do it as he has peer lab duty today so would i mind typing it for him. YES!!!!!!! I would mind but i'll do it and he's going to owe me big time.

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Jongoleur
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:17 pm

Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 13:50
...and he's going to owe me big time.

You sure you trust him with a paintbrush? :o

Anyhow, what really sucks is that here we are at the beginning of December, Christmas is just over three weeks away, and I'm beginning to DROOL every time I think of a Raspberry Pi.

Its even worse when I dream about it, but I'll spare the squeamish on that one...
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:33 pm

Quote from Jongoleur on December 1, 2011, 14:17
Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 13:50
...and he's going to owe me big time.

You sure you trust him with a paintbrush? :o



NO I DO NOT!!!! also I enjoy house painting so I won't let him spoil my fun. Give me 5 gallons of Apple Blossom White, a couple of paint brushes and a nice empty room and i'm like a pig in clover.

I have other plans for him other than the normal rates of payment in chocolate. I'm thinking something along the lines of 2 bags of laundry taken to the launderette, washed, dried and folded per page and an extra bag on completion.

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meltwater
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:37 pm

Sounds like your son needs a PA.
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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:44 pm

Quote from meltwater on December 1, 2011, 14:37
Sounds like your son needs a PA.

No he needs to learn to type. I did however find out in the last of his papers I typed up for him (last night) that he spent most of his time when on duty in his words "we didn't have much to do so we retyped the brochers and filed the counseling packages."

When queried about why I am doing his typing for him rather than him doing it himself he at least had the decency to look sheepish and mumble something about how I am so much quicker.

He is taking a typing class over winter break whether he likes it or not

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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 14:33
Quote from Jongoleur on December 1, 2011, 14:17
Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 13:50
...and he's going to owe me big time.

You sure you trust him with a paintbrush? :o



NO I DO NOT!!!! also I enjoy house painting so I won't let him spoil my fun. Give me 5 gallons of Apple Blossom White, a couple of paint brushes and a nice empty room and i'm like a pig in clover.

I have other plans for him other than the normal rates of payment in chocolate. I'm thinking something along the lines of 2 bags of laundry taken to the launderette, washed, dried and folded per page and an extra bag on completion.

You enjoy painting rooms? That's a bit, well, in my world, weird.

And tell him to do his own typing.
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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:08 pm

Quote from jamesh on December 1, 2011, 14:49
Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 14:33
Quote from Jongoleur on December 1, 2011, 14:17
Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 13:50
...and he's going to owe me big time.

You sure you trust him with a paintbrush? :o



NO I DO NOT!!!! also I enjoy house painting so I won't let him spoil my fun. Give me 5 gallons of Apple Blossom White, a couple of paint brushes and a nice empty room and i'm like a pig in clover.

I have other plans for him other than the normal rates of payment in chocolate. I'm thinking something along the lines of 2 bags of laundry taken to the launderette, washed, dried and folded per page and an extra bag on completion.

You enjoy painting rooms? That's a bit, well, in my world, weird.

And tell him to do his own typing.

He actually can type but he is painfully slow to watch. He's a bit of a luddite too. He's the only person in the world I know that still writes all his term papers in long hand (he has pretty good handwriting and is very fast) but his professors won't accept non-typed papers.

What I can type in a couple of hours (two finger typing since i broke my hand a few years ago) would take him a couple of days. I have just signed him up for a typing improvement class over the winter break, I haven't told him yet as he just went running out of the door to class (he's going to be late).

I love house painting, not too keen on wallpapering though. There are the big expanses that you can just slop the paint on and then the nice fiddily bits where you have to concentrate and normally you are left alone while you are doing it so you can blast radio 4 at full volume and no one will complain. I often volunteer when friends are decorating their houses to do the painting part.

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meltwater
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 pm

Hey you can paint my house and I'll teach him to touch-type!
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 pm

Quote from jamesh on December 1, 2011, 14:49
You enjoy painting rooms? That's a bit, well, in my world, weird.


Some types of paint fumes are highly addictive, especially oil-based paints. I've heard of professional painters starting to go through withdrawal over a long weekend.

obarthelemy
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:54 pm

UK : http://www.livescribe.com/ . The reviews seem to find it actually works OK, and it records speech, too.

Now I'll be banned for advertising on the forums ^^

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:02 pm

Quote from obarthelemy on December 1, 2011, 16:54
UK : http://www.livescribe.com/ . The reviews seem to find it actually works OK, and it records speech, too.

Now I'll be banned for advertising on the forums ^^

nah you'll be banned for being you :P just on G.P.

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Luny
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:56 pm

<GROAN>
All this Raspberry talk gave me theretro bug, so I went up into the loft (to get the christmas decors as well) and grab the first box with an 8 bit micro in. It was a C64. I thought maybe I could write something in BASIC, the hard way :)

It all booted, fine, but after a minute, the screen bombed, the micro bombed. One of the chip was a bit hot. Ouch!

That is now two micros down, after my Archimedes died sometime ago.

SOB!
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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:35 pm

Quote from Luny on December 3, 2011, 16:56
<GROAN>
All this Raspberry talk gave me theretro bug, so I went up into the loft (to get the christmas decors as well) and grab the first box with an 8 bit micro in. It was a C64. I thought maybe I could write something in BASIC, the hard way :)

It all booted, fine, but after a minute, the screen bombed, the micro bombed. One of the chip was a bit hot. Ouch!

That is now two micros down, after my Archimedes died sometime ago.

SOB!


but look on the bright side. now you have two computers to fix over the holidays. that should keep you amused for hours while you wait for the raspberry pi.

and ratz I just gave away working 2 commie 64's that if neccessary I could have pulled chips from as I don't mind killing commie 64's :)

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Luny
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Hardware is a bit out of my knowledge. However it was a slotted chip that was hot. Oh well, not to worry :)
Luny

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:42 pm

If it was slotted then removing it, and then reinserting it and pressing down really hard might fix it. (and pressing down on any other chips in holders too)

tufty
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:47 pm

Quote from ukscone on December 3, 2011, 17:35
and ratz I just gave away working 2 commie 64's that if neccessary I could have pulled chips from as I don't mind killing commie 64's :)
C64s don't get given away. They get sold for their SID chips.

WizardOfOZ
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:49 pm

No, please don't.

The hot part is probably not the problem, just a symptom.

Electrolytic capacitors go bad when they have not been powered up for a few years, and generally *all* need to be replaced in old electronics before you can use the gizmo again. You need to do this *before* 'just going to test it', because if an electrolytic is bad, it is very likely to *kill something else*. The caps themselves are inexpensive and easy to replace, the parts the bad ones kill usually aren't.

This applies to absolutely *all* electronics, which has been in extended storage without power for some years. No exceptions. Replace electrolytic capacitors *before* applying power. Always. Discussion ends.

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:54 pm

Quote from tufty on December 3, 2011, 17:47
Quote from ukscone on December 3, 2011, 17:35
and ratz I just gave away working 2 commie 64's that if neccessary I could have pulled chips from as I don't mind killing commie 64's :)
C64s don't get given away. They get sold for their SID chips.

Yeah could have sold them but it was a friend who'd done some bits and pieces for me and he was looking at them longingly so I told him to just take them. I have no interest in them as they are 6502 based and I got them off freecycle about 5 years ago along with some commodore 1514 diskdrives and several boxes of floppies and a timex 1000 (which is what i really wanted)

The original plan was to see if a could hack the drives to be universal floppy drives for some disk conversation projects and mess with the timex1000 but I got sidetracked by some long stays in hospital for a couple of years and never got around to it.

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:05 pm

Quote from WizardOfOZ on December 3, 2011, 17:49
No, please don't.

The hot part is probably not the problem, just a symptom.

Electrolytic capacitors go bad when they have not been powered up for a few years, and generally *all* need to be replaced in old electronics before you can use the gizmo again. You need to do this *before* 'just going to test it', because if an electrolytic is bad, it is very likely to *kill something else*. The caps themselves are inexpensive and easy to replace, the parts the bad ones kill usually aren't.

This applies to absolutely *all* electronics, which has been in extended storage without power for some years. No exceptions. Replace electrolytic capacitors *before* applying power. Always. Discussion ends.

What you say is generally correct however 9 times out of 10 the fault is not capacitors but just chips that have shifted due to heat creep or just because.

I have been fixing old electronics since before there were old electronics and always do a sniff test and visual inspection before doing anything then go through all the socketed chips and make sure they are seated correctly. and in only one case in over 20 years has it been anything but a duff ram chip or unseated socketed chip.

As he said that it did power on with no immediate escaping magic smoke or popping we can assume that the capacitors are at least mostly ok and the symptoms seem to suggest an incorrectly seated chip.

As I said you are theoretically correct but empirical evidence from over 20 years has yet to be the case and the described symptoms seem to indicate a simple fix

WizardOfOZ
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:21 pm

Then all I can say is that you are either very, very lucky, or fixing the wrong things.

The symptoms mentioned with the C-64 are exactly those you frequently see with bad caps. Gizmo works for a short while after applying power, then it dies a few minutes later once the bad cap(s) heat up and short out. Why would it do that if there is a bad connection?

Personally I haven't seen a modern piece of electronics die due to bad capacitors for nearly ... two weeks I think? Friend took late eighties quality FM tuner from storage, applied power, and it played for 5 minutes.

And that is not to mention vintage vacuum tube equipment, or low quality contemporary computer motherboards. Had a (cheap DIY) server die from bad caps a few weeks ago as well, dead motherboard. In old vacuum tube equipment you also need to replace the capacitors with paper insulation, and those are serious tube killers.

Then there is my Philips oscilloscope also form the eighties. Had to replace all the electrolytics in that one as well to restore it to proper operation.

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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:29 pm

lets see in the last month I have repaired an IBM Displaywrite, Apple IIc, Psion organiser II, amstrad nc100 (that is still broken as i need a new LCD because it got cracked in the last apartment move), 2 tandy model100's (will admit a capacitor did need replacing but that was not due to anything except it was dead and is used for battery backup) 3 dell's and an HP. I haven't done anything with values or older than 1975 for a few years but not needed to do much more than a clean, visual check, sniff test and some reseating.

yes i must be darn lucky then, must be karma finally giving me a break for something at least

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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:43 pm

Are we still talking about equipment, which has been without power for extended periods of time (years at least, decades)?

If power has been applied even intermittently, maybe once every year or two, then the caps will have had time to reform their insulation layers, and you are in that case most likely to see mechanical problems.

To emphasize: I am not talking about your average repair job of old electronics, only those which have been without power for years.

Exceptions: Modern, low quality motherboards with cheap capacitors, or anything vacuum tube with caps with paper insulation. Those die with or without power. If you fix contemporary PCs then you *will* have seen the first, and if you fix vacuum tube equipment, then you *will* have seen the latter. Google is your friend.

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ukscone
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Re: YOU SUCK: the venting thread

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:58 pm

the displaywite hadn't been used in 20 odd years and had been in the basement of a pizza resturant used as a storage shelf and was covered in dust and cobwebs about 3 inches thick. The apple wasn't even known to exist, it had been in a box, in a box, in trunk under a pile of books and magazines and newspapers the latest of which was 1986. The psion was bought off ebay last year and hadn't been used since the early 90s, the amstrad was used in 2003 for a couple of minutes so that should have been ok, the dells were removed from service in the pizza resturant in 2003ish and just flung in a corner of a basement and had been underwater a few times. one tandy was an ebay buy 2 years ago and one was my original one bought in 1986, used until 91 and then squashed and stepped on and had a busted keyboard with missing keys. once i swapped out the keyboard, gave it a clean and replaced the leaked batteries it is fine.

These were just the things that i did in the last month, i normally don't deal with anything newer than 1989 and normally nothing that has been stored correctly.

I do agree that theoretically you are correct and if he hadn't already powered on then it's better to replace anything that could be iffy (although personally i normally just wing it) before powering on but as he already powered on once and as whenever i'd had a hot chip it's been that it is slightly unseated chip then i'd just give it a press down to reseat it and give it a go

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